Author Topic: MBB: Midwest Conference  (Read 1378893 times)

Offline sncsid

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +13/-1
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14325 on: May 08, 2019, 02:15:27 pm »
I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.

Offline GK79

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +0/-14
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14326 on: May 08, 2019, 04:57:08 pm »
I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.

So good of you to chime in.

I surmise from your handle that you are the SID.  I admire your work over the years.  Really.

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Greg.  It's the one that he didn't bother to answer.  It's pretty simple, really.  How far is too far to travel on the weekend before finals?  In this particular case, the SNC baseball squad traveled 800+ miles round trip, plus they played in four games. 

Assuming that the players returned to campus Sunday night to take whatever finals they might have that week and that no special accommodations were made, how far is too far to travel to "take what you can get?" Obviously, we know that roughly 800 miles is acceptable in your book to get four non-con games in two days.  What wouldn't be acceptable?

As for my assertion about football being the driver at SNC, as SID you have to say it's baseless.  I get that.  What you likely can't publicly admit to is the reality that football and other sports don't all have the exact same amount of internal clout/political capital within the college community in general and the SNC athetic department in particular.


Offline sncsid

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +13/-1
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14327 on: May 09, 2019, 11:32:13 am »
I've sat and watched this verbal jousting over St. Norbert's move to the NACC for the better part of a month and feel compelled to chime in at this time...

I will address this past weekend's baseball scheduling, since I was the person who originally arranged it to help out then-coach Tom Winske with scheduling. St. Norbert had the bye in the MWC North this past weekend. Whenever our bye falls, the baseball program's scheduling philosophy has been to try and schedule the WIAC team with the corresponding bye, and if that fails try the CCIW's corresponding bye. I emailed UW-Stout last spring and didn't get a response. Which meant my next email was to the Millikin coach, who immediately agreed to a three-game series. A good weekend of competition. If Carroll or Carthage had the bye instead of Millikin, I would have reached out there as well. No one wants to be idle an entire weekend.

Fast forward to last week; Millikin needed to cancel the Sunday game of the series to play a makeup CCIW doubleheader with North Central. No problem. Mike Wallerich then worked the phones and Blackburn agreed to play us twice on Sunday. Heavy rain at Blackburn on Saturday rendered its field unplayable. To Blackburn's credit, its coach secured the field at MacMurray to get the games in. Whenever you have an entire weekend off, you are fortunate to find an opponent, and you take what you can get. During St. Norbert's bye weekend in 2020 we are playing UW-Platteville in a three-game series. More good competition. In the end, filling out your schedule takes two to tango.

I am not going to address football being the driver of the move or other veiled innuendo thrown around on here, since it is so baseless it doesn't even merit this much of a response.

So good of you to chime in.

I surmise from your handle that you are the SID.  I admire your work over the years.  Really.

I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Greg.  It's the one that he didn't bother to answer.  It's pretty simple, really.  How far is too far to travel on the weekend before finals?  In this particular case, the SNC baseball squad traveled 800+ miles round trip, plus they played in four games. 

Assuming that the players returned to campus Sunday night to take whatever finals they might have that week and that no special accommodations were made, how far is too far to travel to "take what you can get?" Obviously, we know that roughly 800 miles is acceptable in your book to get four non-con games in two days.  What wouldn't be acceptable?

As for my assertion about football being the driver at SNC, as SID you have to say it's baseless.  I get that.  What you likely can't publicly admit to is the reality that football and other sports don't all have the exact same amount of internal clout/political capital within the college community in general and the SNC athetic department in particular.

Thank you.

I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

As for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice. Not every move is done with ulterior motives, but in today's social media climate I get that taking someone's word at face value with no skepticism is a rarity these days.

If you have any other questions, I would be more than happy to meet you for a cup of coffee somewhere and discuss this with you further. My email is on the website. Look forward to hearing from you.

Offline GK79

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +0/-14
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14328 on: May 09, 2019, 01:29:40 pm »
I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

Well stated. 

Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

As for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.

Offline sncsid

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: +13/-1
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14329 on: May 09, 2019, 03:15:14 pm »
I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

Well stated. 

Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

As for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.

I agree closer non-conference options are preferred, but not always possible. And sometimes you want to give your athletes a different experience or have them compete close(r) to an athlete's hometown (track and cross country going to Lower Michigan due to the Tarsa sisters, for example). You don't want to get too rote in your scheduling to the point you are perceived as boring. It does impact recruiting.

As I mentioned in my first post, I would rather have scheduled UW-Stout this past weekend for baseball but never heard back, so we had to go to Decatur. Not ideal, but if we had qualified for MWC Tournament it wouldn't have been good to have not played at all last weekend, either.

Offline GK79

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +0/-14
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14330 on: May 13, 2019, 10:16:13 am »
I would say anywhere within a 500-mile radius of De Pere is in play since that is what the NCAA uses to determine busing/flights. I will point out that this past weekend's trip has been on the schedule since this time last year, so it was not a surprise to any of the players. As you know, time management is a key life skill acquired for student-athletes. Not everyone has finals on Monday as well. They are staggered throughout the week.

But this example is a big reason to move to the NACC - so we don't have to do this sort of thing anymore, or at least far less of it. In baseball for example there will be 24 NACC games. If the MWC ever went to full round-robin play in baseball who is to say St. Norbert wouldn't be playing at Illinois College the day before finals start? In the near future that will no longer be a potential hazard.

Well stated. 

Thanks for answering my question.  I would like to think that, while anywhere within a 500 mile radius is in play,  round trips approaching 1000 miles on the weekend before finals are not optimal and closer options would be preferable if they exist.  Perhaps that is a given. 

As for your last comment, I will repeat that football was not a driver in this move. This was done with the whole of the program in mind - almost 600 student-athletes. You may not believe that, but that is your choice.

Fair enough.  I still wrestle with the stated rationale given the frequency with which it has been subordinated when it comes to non-conference scheduling, combined with the fact that not all student athletes are making these trips to the far flung reaches of the MWC each year given the divisional alignment in several sports.  Perhaps as NACC membership plays out, that will change.

I agree closer non-conference options are preferred, but not always possible. And sometimes you want to give your athletes a different experience or have them compete close(r) to an athlete's hometown (track and cross country going to Lower Michigan due to the Tarsa sisters, for example). You don't want to get too rote in your scheduling to the point you are perceived as boring. It does impact recruiting.

As I mentioned in my first post, I would rather have scheduled UW-Stout this past weekend for baseball but never heard back, so we had to go to Decatur. Not ideal, but if we had qualified for MWC Tournament it wouldn't have been good to have not played at all last weekend, either.

Congrats to SNC on winning the MWC All Sports Award for both men and women. 

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 9938
  • Karma: +704/-425
  • Broadcaster, Announcer, Analyst, and Fan!
    • View Profile
    • Hoopsville
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14331 on: May 13, 2019, 09:23:44 pm »
Wow ... finally listened to someone who said basically what others said. Phew.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Offline GK79

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Karma: +0/-14
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14332 on: May 14, 2019, 09:59:51 am »
Wow ... finally listened to someone who said basically what others said. Phew.

I tend to listen more to people who are not condescending and don't try to make it personal.  I should hasten to add that listening does not necessarily imply agreement. 

Offline Smitty Oom

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • Karma: +128/-20
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14333 on: May 21, 2019, 09:45:08 am »
As I look back on my college basketball career (different sport than the SNC schedule conflict, but still the same concept), I really enjoyed the bus trips to different non-conf schools for many reasons:

1) Spending time with the team on the bus is literally my best memories of college. The tradeoff of a possible B instead of an A on a single final is totally worth it in the long run.
2) Bus time and down time at a hotel can be adequate study times should the athlete choose to do so.
3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL, plus getting to play a new team is worth it in my opinion.

I understand not all players/fans share my ideology here, but from what I know of recent/current student athlete I don't think they will be too mad. It is nothing you can't work around and you understand schedules aren't going to be ideal when you sign up to play D3 athletics.

Offline Gregory Sager

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 22458
  • Karma: +2577/-814
  • North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14334 on: May 21, 2019, 11:35:28 am »
3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL

"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..Ē -- John Wooden

Offline RFMichigan

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Karma: +40/-7
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14335 on: May 21, 2019, 08:32:49 pm »
As I look back on my college basketball career (different sport than the SNC schedule conflict, but still the same concept), I really enjoyed the bus trips to different non-conf schools for many reasons:

1) Spending time with the team on the bus is literally my best memories of college. The tradeoff of a possible B instead of an A on a single final is totally worth it in the long run.
2) Bus time and down time at a hotel can be adequate study times should the athlete choose to do so.
3) I really enjoy checking out different schools and new areas, especially the culturally rich and beautiful Decatur, IL, plus getting to play a new team is worth it in my opinion.

I understand not all players/fans share my ideology here, but from what I know of recent/current student athlete I don't think they will be too mad. It is nothing you can't work around and you understand schedules aren't going to be ideal when you sign up to play D3 athletics.

You hit the nail on the dIII head Smitty. Part of the experience of college athletics (and actually just college in general) is getting to know your friends and teammates during the trips. This, plus seeing other towns and campuses was something I always looked forward to.

Offline AndOne

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5987
  • Karma: +2607/-1226
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14336 on: May 21, 2019, 10:17:03 pm »
Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the busí TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts. 
You don't always have to win every game. You just have to win the right ones. 😏 (AndOne)

There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys----there's only you and me, and we just disagree. ✌️
(Dave Mason)

You gotta lose 👎, to know how to win. 🏆 (Aerosmith)

So who's the hunter 🐅, .....and who's the game 🐃? (Scandal)

Offline Smitty Oom

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1456
  • Karma: +128/-20
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14337 on: May 21, 2019, 10:53:31 pm »
Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the busí TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts.

Well depends on the bus trip... from NCC to Wheaton yes you are just going to listen to music and get your mind right. But from SNC to Milliken on a Thursday you are going to be shooting the breeze with your teammates for a lot of time, while mixing in a nap/music/study as well. We would always bring cards for our 3+ hour bus rides from Moorhead to the Twin Cities and play Spades/Hearts/etc.

Offline RFMichigan

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Karma: +40/-7
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14338 on: May 21, 2019, 11:13:08 pm »
Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the busí TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts. 

Goes to show how old I am. Of all the things you just mentioned I think only sleeping was around when we took took to the road. Oh - and maybe studying. Using books.

Offline AndOne

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 5987
  • Karma: +2607/-1226
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Midwest Conference
« Reply #14339 on: May 21, 2019, 11:29:42 pm »
Not sure exactly how much getting to know your teammates is done on the 🚌 these days. The kids usually whip out their phones, and pop in their ear buds shortly after departure. The majority of time on most trips is spent listening to music, playing video games, watching a movie on the busí TV system, or sleeping. The primary exception where studying becomes part of the equation seems to be whether a player has an exam the next day. 📚 💻
I think most of the fun, frivolity, and getting to know your teammates stems from the fact that many of the players often live together, either in the dorms or off campus houses/apts.

Well depends on the bus trip... from NCC to Wheaton yes you are just going to listen to music and get your mind right. But from SNC to Milliken on a Thursday you are going to be shooting the breeze with your teammates for a lot of time, while mixing in a nap/music/study as well. We would always bring cards for our 3+ hour bus rides from Moorhead to the Twin Cities and play Spades/Hearts/etc.

What year was that, Smitty? Even on trips to Millikin, Augie, and 4 hour trips to schools in Michigan, I havenít seen any cards on the bus since the cow jumped over the moon. 🐄 🌙
You don't always have to win every game. You just have to win the right ones. 😏 (AndOne)

There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys----there's only you and me, and we just disagree. ✌️
(Dave Mason)

You gotta lose 👎, to know how to win. 🏆 (Aerosmith)

So who's the hunter 🐅, .....and who's the game 🐃? (Scandal)