Author Topic: Conference changes  (Read 97402 times)

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #705 on: May 16, 2019, 03:38:54 pm »
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).
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Offline lefty2

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #706 on: May 17, 2019, 08:16:52 am »
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.
Correct.
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Offline ronk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #707 on: May 17, 2019, 02:08:06 pm »
I think his point is that it's been 10 years since the previous change and posing it as a question emphasized that it wasn't as frequent as had been suggested.

You would be hard pressed to find a conference anywhere else in the country that has swapped teams around even in divisions. The MAC is grandfathered into a clause that when they do make swaps - no matter when - it feels odd to many in other large conferences, especially. So while it might have been ten years since the last switch - albeit several changes in a quick succession as well - to those who make no changes and have one AQ ... they take exception.

Remember, from the outside it looks like this: the MAC is a two-division conference akin to the USA South, ASC, and others ... who swaps teams around when it is necessary or convenient without treating those changes like they are two separate conferences. They treat them like two different divisions. Thus, no matter when the last one took place ... the fact it happens I know drives other conferences and other members crazy.

I am not arguing either way on this. I get both sides of the equation and understand both sides perspective. The grandfather clause allows the MAC to do what it wants ... but that does not mean other DIII members take kindly to it. That is all I am trying to point out. Ten years ago feels like three to many others (at least from what they express to me in conversations).

Dave,
 You might as well bookmark your reply;  ;) I've seen it before and you're liable to need it again in the future.

Which prompts the following idea in the next post:

Offline ronk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #708 on: May 17, 2019, 02:26:59 pm »
 Since Dave has mentioned the MAC grandfather clause, it has provoked a historical timeline question to understand how D3 basketball has gotten to its current environment:

Would the D3 historian(Gordon Mann) consider presenting an overview of D3 basketball from the beginning(1975 for men, '80s for women), considering such items as

# of conferences/institutions
did NCAA tourney field consist only of AQs? if so, when were at-larges introduced?
how did the NCAA choose the at-larges/when did RACs and regions come into being?

anything else that would color the picture

I did see that the size of the NCAA fields is already a part of the D3 men's history under news/playoff history

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #709 on: May 17, 2019, 02:40:28 pm »
The tournament consisted solely of at-large selections until the 64-team play-in years in 1995-97. All conferences had automatic bids in that 64-team field, but when the field was reduced in 1998, some conferences lost automatic qualification. The current pool system came into place in 2000.

I don't know when RACs came into being but I know that they were in existence by 1993. The RACs ranked teams in their regions and at-large bids were handed out by region.
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Offline ronk

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #710 on: May 18, 2019, 12:01:17 pm »
 Thanks for the info, Pat.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #711 on: June 05, 2019, 10:23:48 am »
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Offline gordonmann

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #712 on: June 05, 2019, 11:02:09 am »
Bump...

Provisional Pipeline for 2019-2020
First year full members: (presume Belhaven)
*4th year provisional members: (presume none)
*3rd year provisional members:  (presume Brevard, Dean, Pfeiffer)
2nd year provisional members: (presume SUNY-Delhi, Johnson and Wales (Col.))
1st year provisional members: Pratt, University of St Thomas (TX), Mississippi University for Women.
Exploratory: Bob Jones, Warren Wilson; Lindenwood-Belleville was initially listed in this group, but announced it is ending most undergraduate programs after 2019-20.
*Games against Year 3 and 4 provisional members count the same as games against full-members for regional-ranking and tournament selection purposes

Conference Changes Starting in 2019-2020
Alfred State leaves the ACAA for the AMCC
Frostburg State leaves D3 for D2
Manhattanville leaves the MACF for the SKY
New Rochelle (IND) closes
Newbury (NECC) closes
Penn State-Harrisburg leaves the CAC for a return to the NEAC
Southern Vermont (NECC) closes
Staten Island leaves D3 for D2 (plays full D3 schedule. Not eligible for post-season)
Stevens leaves the E8 for the MACF
St. Elizabeth leaves the NEAC for the CSAC
SUNY-Delhi joins the NAC
Texas-Tyler leaves D3 for D2
Thomas More leaves D3 for the NAIA

Side note: Simmons discontinues its women's program

Conference Changes Starting in 2020-2021
Arcadia shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
Eastern shifts from the MAC Freedom to the MAC Commonwealth
Franciscan leaves the AMCC for the Presidents' Athletic Conference
Keuka leaves the NEAC for the E8
Lycoming shifts from the MAC Commonwealth to the MAC Freedom
St. Norbert leaves the MWC for the NACC
Suffolk leaves the GNAC for the CCC
York (Pa.) leaves the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth

Conference Changes Starting in 2021-2022
St. Thomas involuntarily removed from MIAC, will go to ???
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 11:07:04 am by gordonmann »

Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #713 on: June 05, 2019, 11:31:38 am »
Gordon - what is Simmons discontinuing?

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #714 on: June 05, 2019, 12:42:30 pm »
If it's discontinuing its women's programs, then Simmons is discontinuing intercollegiate athletics altogether, because it only has women's athletics programs.
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #715 on: June 05, 2019, 12:50:55 pm »
D3 is undergoing some significant shrinkage. Eight schools are gone, and only one comes in to replace them. Next year could be just as bad, or worse, as no schools will be entering the division.
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Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #716 on: June 05, 2019, 01:04:36 pm »
oh found it, cutting WBB

http://athletics.simmons.edu/general/2018-19/releases/20190405vlq76c

I don't understand this at all. They're not egregiously bad, getting a little better each year, seem to have an OK roster size, not a particularly expensive sport and no exorbitant travel costs...how do you cut basketball? Baffling.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 01:13:29 pm by Caz Bombers »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #717 on: June 05, 2019, 01:25:35 pm »
I agree. Basketball is practically a universal sport on the collegiate level.

The good news is that at least Simmons isn't dropping intercollegiate athletics altogether. So, in terms of membership if not specifically women's basketball, the net loss for D3 is only six schools, not seven.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #718 on: June 05, 2019, 02:07:23 pm »
That is crazy news about Simmons.

The Simmons student newspaper wrote an article about it.

https://simmonsvoice.com/9992/sports/simmons-ends-basketball-program-without-warning/

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Conference changes
« Reply #719 on: June 06, 2019, 06:31:19 am »

Simmons has a number of very highly sought-after graduate programs.  I suspect grad school is driving the ship there (near double the undergrad enrollment).  It might really just be cost cutting - or they're shifting money to a sport that can recruit more students.  I don't know.  I don't think Simmons has the same concerns of some of the other small NE private schools, though.
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