Author Topic: Who Is running the Grinnell system?  (Read 98031 times)

Online Mr. Ypsi

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« on: March 24, 2005, 02:03:53 am »
uh-oh -

Arseneault vs. Westhead?
jeff p vs. Sager?

Us mice are seeking shelter!!

In the great tradition of war, I shall return to shoot the wounded and suck-up to the victor!  

Well, actually, cynical contrarian that I am, I'll probably end up doing the opposite.

Oh, what the hell - go at it, and who knows what I'll do?!!  (I obviously don't!)

(Message edited by cabonney on March 24, 2005)

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2005, 02:06:04 am »
God, I wish we could have these discussions in person. Somewhere in the printed word I am fumbling around again. I just seem not to make myself clear. I haven't said anything different tonight than I have said all year long! I am an admittedly one issue poster. I have learned a bunch in the last few years (by osmosis mostly) but my focus will always by on Grinnell Basketball. Your overall knowledge about d3 ball overwhelms me, but I have no desire to match it. I've written all my life, made a living from it at times, and still don't much care for the unedited post to post method we are forced to use on sites like this. If my style causes confusion, I'm sorry. I have never felt so completely misunderstood-at least not since Miranda broke my heart 35 years ago. I don't know any other way to put my thoughts down than the way I have. I'm gonna give up tonight, but I think this has really gotten a bit silly.

You should have read Gregory Corso and the beat poets discussion of the Sonnet over the years. As in basketball, there are many different ways to approach the same subject.  

Foghat was to music what Princeton is to basketball. It works on a few levels but who wants to suffer through it?

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2005, 02:13:00 am »
OK, How'd that repeat happen? I thought I was telling Cabonney that the Grinnell link won't appear in print, that i was telling Pat Coleman that my source wasn't who he thought it was, and that you guys were gonna have to send me to Guantanamo to get that source out of me. Then i get an error message and...oh well.

Gregory Sager

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2005, 02:16:52 am »
You and I are very different people, Jeff, that's for sure. I never cared for Corso at all (Gregory or his brother Lee :-)), and where poetry definitions are concerned I take my cue from Noah Webster rather than the Beats.

As to the language difficulties, no worries. I live to argue about stuff like this. Ask anyone on d3hoops.com. And my sympathies about Miranda ... very pretty name.

Foghat was to music what Princeton is to basketball. It works on a few levels but who wants to suffer through it.

This is actually one of the most elegant analogies I've ever read on this website, Jeff. Huzzah!

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2005, 09:45:04 am »
Noah was a great wordsmith as are the directors that continue his work. No arguement from me there. But you are right-we are completely different people. Even the folks who make the new word lists and redefine the old for each addition talk about how difficult it is to remain pointed when defining our language. I remember a story from several years back where a director made the following analogy: Once the word has been defined, people spend the next many years trying to break it from its confines. He went on to compare it to roping bulls and corraling them. Once the pen  becomes full, some damn bull starts knocking down the fence much to the consternation of the cowboys involved. Perhaps the versions of dead verse vs free verse as espoused by the beats didn't catch on in the rigid world of Webster, but that doesn't mean the evolutionary process won't proceed. Kinda like basketball, huh?

Jeffp's horoscope for today (from creators syndicate):

 "You like to play where the rules are a little loose or, better yet, completely undefined. You have enough imagination and moral structure to make up your own, right? Hopefully the others in the game feel the same."

I've been around long enough to know NOT to count on the latter, but still enjoy knocking down the fence.

Right now my biggest worry has nothing to do with our discussion of word useage or definition but rather with how to explain Miranda to my wife of... 34 and 5/6 years.

Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2005, 11:09:42 am »
Tell her it all has to do with the Supreme Court ruling.  :-)

How dare you insinuate that Foghat was painful to listen to, you need to take it easy on that slow ride.

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2005, 12:07:15 pm »
Mike-

I'm glad I have broad shoulders. Patricia still hasn't been able to see past 'em to read about M. M never did read me my rights, just the riot act.

Keep  in mind that my taste runs toward the Grateful Dead...and any music loose and unstructured-just like my basketball.

I know, I know-Deadheads shouldn't get stoned...or cast stones or something like that.

Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2005, 01:32:15 pm »
I like the Dead too.  My band will get into a Dead song and twenty-five minutes later realize that we have other songs to rehearse also.

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2005, 02:34:25 pm »
Cabonney and others-

I would like to thank Assistant Coach Tim Watkins from Redlands for allowing me to tell you that he is the source for my post from several days ago. Tim has also granted permission for me to include a great quote from one of his Emails. It is as follows:

"...we at Redlands are excited about the possibility of another team entering into the frenetic pace of system-like basketball...especially since they are only about 20 miles away from us.....Coach Smith and I have often wondered what it would be like to run the system with D1 type athletes."

Thanks, Tim!

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2005, 02:57:39 pm »
Mike and Gregory-
I was just told that Rod Price passed away on Tuesday after falling down a flight of stairs at his home. The slow ride just stopped, I guess.

Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2005, 04:51:23 pm »
Jeff or maybe it is just beginning.  :-)

Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2005, 04:54:46 pm »
One of my favorite guitarists and one of my favorite singers have died in the last couple of weeks.  Danny Joe Brown of Molly Hatchet died recently too.  Distinctive voices have been silenced too soon.

Online Mr. Ypsi

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2005, 07:00:31 pm »
jeff p,

I've not followed Riverside, but am pretty sure they've 'never' been on the national stage.  Some questions:

Does this appear to be a 'desperation' try by a program that has never gotten anywhere anyway else, or a choice by a coach genuinely sold on the system?  (And how much would that matter?)

Do you know if he plans to be closer to L-M or Grinnell?

Do you have any predictions on how it will work out (whether W-L or by other standards)?

jeff p

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2005, 09:38:47 pm »
Cabonney- at the risk of doing some of your homework for you (ah, I forget. You teach at the University level don't you? So you probably haven't had to do much of your own legwork lately :-) ) I can say that Riverside's record appears to have remained  fairly static for the last 5 seasons. They don't appear to be in desperate straights from my perspective ( shoot, some of those season records would have been grounds for huge celebration at Grinnell in the 80's). I have heard from other sourses today (sorry, they won't disclose) that UCR has been ambivalent about the program and has no real expectation of hitting the national spotlight. In other words, they appear to be great candidates for true system ball.

As for Spencer, if you really read the article ( :-) ) you saw the quote from Bo Kimble, one of his more famous recruits. Bo says the D1 head position is long overdue for Spencer. His connection to LM is hard fact, and  his commitment to rapid tempo ball is apparently well known. I can't really substantiate the connection to Grinnell style system ball without compromising several great friends. So choose to believe what you wish. My sense at this time is that URC would more closely resemble a highly tweaked LMU than a full system team. I would be happy to see that, but really hope he lets 'er fly.  

I don't think LMU style is as complex as system ball, so I would see a shorter adjustment period if Spencer chooses to go more the LMC route. If he chooses even 60% of system dogma his players will take longer to gel resulting in more of the same in terms of record for a few years. Once in place, who knows what  could happen. As Asst. Coach Watkins said in the quote (and I  paraphrase) lots of folks wonder what happens when you put System ball in the hands of D1 athletes. If he recruits Gather and Kimble quality athletes, he could play about any style of basketball he chooses and have great success. I wish Coach Spencer well and look forward to seeing what we end up with at Riverside.

Ever Blurringly yours
Jeffp

Online Mr. Ypsi

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Who Is running the Grinnell system?
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2005, 09:51:48 pm »
jeff p,

Thanks!

In the immortal words of Tom Lehrer:

"The secret to success: plagiarize.
Let no one else's words evade your eyes.
So plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize ...

But, please, always to call it 'research'!"

Or, in the (not-so-immortal) words of cabonney - why expend the energy if you can get a grad student (or fellow poster!) to do it for you?!  :-)