Author Topic: North Coast Athletic Conference  (Read 2331592 times)

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25485 on: March 19, 2013, 11:19:09 am »
It's a recruiting play, right?  Witt used to have a handful of guys on the roster every year from the Indy area.  That seems to have lessened.  Playing a game at Butler gets them some face time in and around Indy without it being at Hollett where the cards are obviously stacked against them.  That's the long game here, isn't it?
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Offline sigma one

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25486 on: March 19, 2013, 08:01:01 pm »
     It's early to be doing this, but here goes.  Butler was 8-3 last year, losing to Western Illinois, Davidson, and Drake.  A quick look based on the starters at Drake in the season's final game shows that they will return their QB, top RB (1000+ yards/6.6 per carry),  top four receivers, tight end, and all but one offensive linemen.  On defense,  it looks like they will bring back nine or 10 starters.  They were young last year, playing quite a few freshmen and sophs. 
     Of course, Wittenberg brings back plenty of power on offense.  Defensively, if memory serves, they lose three or four starters.     
     Butler played Franklin last year; I think this was after Franklin lost to Mt. Union to open the season.
     Could Witt have signed with Butler because they have trouble scheduling other schools--others not wanting to play them in a first game? (Based on Butler's recent history it appears that they like to schedule a respectable tune up.) I recall that Wit is perhaps experiencing some financial constraints;  maybe this game helps the budget if no one will travel to Springfied to take them on, and they have to find a game away from home but within a short bus ride.  And with the OAC teams having only their first game open maybe it's gotten much harder for Wit to find an opponent in Ohio. Just guessing.
     Opening with Butler, or playing Butler early has not hurt Franklin; in fact, has given them a way to test themselves vs. strong competition.     

Offline smedindy

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25487 on: March 20, 2013, 09:41:41 pm »
Witt's always had trouble to find a game it seems. Huntingdon has come to their rescue a couple of times.
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25488 on: March 21, 2013, 12:20:49 am »
sorry if this has been covered before but I have just noticed that wittenberg opens the 2013 season with fcs butler. Good luck tigers, would be great for the entire league to come through with the win.

See that's the thing...it's NOT good for the entire league.  Nobody else gets even tangential benefit from Wittenberg beating Butler, which won't happen anyway.  The NCAA doesn't recognize that game as ever having happened for SOS or any other selection/seeding purposes.  Aside from the novelty and curiosity of it being a D3 vs. FCS game, it's a total throwaway.

Wally:

You probably already know this, however, many of us have discussed this situation at length before on several of the boards.  Nonetheless, while I certainly understand where you are coming from, I respectfully disagree - my own personal opinion is I see nothing wrong with having a DIII team play an FCS game.  IMO, it has nothing to do with the entire league (whether it is the MIAA or the NCAC, etc.).  The bottom line is that a team has to win their own league to obtain the AQ regarless of who they play.  Subsequently, in that regard then, the realistic chances of two teams from the same league getting into the playoffs i.e. a second team via an at-large bid is slim - of course it can happen, but is rare.  So the fact that the NCAA doesn't count an FCS i.e. out of division game towards one's SOS doesn't matter anyway, unless, again, some team has a realistic chance of getting an at large bid - rare for that and even rarer in regards to the amount of teams that even would have that capability. 

All that said, I've always been in favor of a DIII team 'playing up" if that is what they want to do.  It is a great experience for the players and, maybe, just maybe if they pull the upset, even moreso (and that can happen).  Besides, I'v always believed playing up in such a game is helpful in making one's team stronger for the season and in the long run even if you lose.  Of course, a team has to have the "horses" for that as well - or at least it helps! ;) :)

Anyway, each team has to make their own decision.  Right know, I believe you are right that Witt probably doesn't have a chance against Butler, since the latter has markedly improved in recent years, yet those past great Witt teams might have had a chance.  You have to recall that until these most recent 3-4 years, Butler had a hard time beating the likes of Albion in our MIAA and even lost one year.  But...as you have pretty much alluded to, that was "a long time ago" now. :)  This is always an interesting discussion IMO, and also to what degree depends on the teams involved for any specific year.
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25489 on: March 21, 2013, 12:26:43 am »
If that's your only non-conference game, I would definitely say it's a bad move. You'll have no data points for comparison with other at-large candidates and you won't be helping your fellow conference members at all.
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Offline wally world

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25490 on: March 21, 2013, 05:40:42 am »
Sorry if someone else posted already, but ...

Congrats to Weston Kitley on being named an NCAA Postgraduate Scholar.

Quite impressive both on and off the field.

Offline formerd3db

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25491 on: March 21, 2013, 10:10:02 pm »
If that's your only non-conference game, I would definitely say it's a bad move. You'll have no data points for comparison with other at-large candidates and you won't be helping your fellow conference members at all.

Perhaps for some conferences, but not for a conference like ours (MIAA) - again, playing that type of game doesn't matter in that regard (even if it is the only non-conference game-which would be impossible for our conference anyway). We are not going to get a second bid i.e. an at-large bid (teams not strong enough nor conference respected), so winning the conference title to get the AQ is the venue/goal. :) 
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Offline smedindy

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25492 on: March 22, 2013, 07:37:25 am »
Never say never about a second bid...
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Offline NCF

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25493 on: March 22, 2013, 08:28:36 am »
If that's your only non-conference game, I would definitely say it's a bad move. You'll have no data points for comparison with other at-large candidates and you won't be helping your fellow conference members at all.

Perhaps for some conferences, but not for a conference like ours (MIAA) - again, playing that type of game doesn't matter in that regard (even if it is the only non-conference game-which would be impossible for our conference anyway). We are not going to get a second bid i.e. an at-large bid (teams not strong enough nor conference respected), so winning the conference title to get the AQ is the venue/goal. :)
   I would have to agree with former here. Only a handful of conferences have a realistic chance of garnering a second bid. I think it's a win-win situation for a good D3 program. If they win or keep it close-would be a great confidence booster. Props to any program willing to play up-it's better than beating up on a D3 bottom feeder.
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Offline NCF

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25494 on: March 22, 2013, 08:31:37 am »
Never say never about a second bid...
   ......there's always a chance, however slim.
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Offline FightinScot

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25495 on: March 22, 2013, 02:44:45 pm »
Saw this today - seems relevant to past discussion re: Oberlin facilities. Raising almost 3/4 of a million dollars at a HS level seems pretty impressive, though I don't know enough about fundraising to compare with anything.

http://www.goyeo.com/news/2013/3/22/HC_0322131612.aspx

Thoughts? Might as well get an Oberlin opinion while we've got one!

Offline ohiofan1954

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25496 on: March 23, 2013, 10:19:19 am »
wow butler is a lot different from the team I saw destroyed at dayton on 07. I still think it will be a good game.

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25497 on: March 23, 2013, 01:23:58 pm »
Never say never about a second bid...
   ......there's always a chance, however slim.

There is always a chance.  The Pool C bids are certainly not reserved for leagues that have reputations as being "stronger".  Over the years we've seen at-large teams out of all kinds of leagues...MWC, NEFC, NCAC...and probably one or two others that I'm blanking on at the moment.  Gnashing of teeth aside, if you can figure out how to win 9 games from whatever league you play in, you've got a decent chance to get invited. 
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Offline Obieqb7

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25498 on: March 24, 2013, 06:57:34 pm »
Saw this today - seems relevant to past discussion re: Oberlin facilities. Raising almost 3/4 of a million dollars at a HS level seems pretty impressive, though I don't know enough about fundraising to compare with anything.

http://www.goyeo.com/news/2013/3/22/HC_0322131612.aspx

Thoughts? Might as well get an Oberlin opinion while we've got one!

I like it! I mean, it's better than what we have had thus far. He's proven himself at the high school level and has done fairly well at Case during his 12 year stint there. I hope he can get some money for the football program. The facilities desperately need a facelift.

Offline sigma one

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #25499 on: March 24, 2013, 07:27:43 pm »
I'm pretty sure at Oberlin, as at most other DIII schools, athletic departments don't operate independently when it comes to fundraising.  The key is to have buy in and strong favorable voices at the Board of Trustee and Presidental level, and from faculty too--at least so that they do not actively oppose the projects.  An athletic department can't just decide to raise funds; they would have to persuade the powers that be that fund raising and new facilities will benefit the institution.  Many schools make the case that new facilities will not be entirely for intercollegiate athletics, that they will be useful for club sports, intramurals, and recreation.  Good luck to Oberlin.  I hope that they are able to see that facilities are a good bargain.
     I did visit Oberlin a couple of years ago for the NCAC outdoor track and field championship meet and thought that the track and field and indoor facilities were pretty nice.  That's no consolation for those interested in football and other sports, but it's a start.