Author Topic: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference  (Read 4287125 times)

Offline Li'l Giant

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28530 on: September 04, 2014, 01:00:08 am »
Fun trivia- without looking it up, when was the last time somebody laid 45 on Wabash? Hint: it's been a minute.

I recall Witt nearly dropping a fiddy burger on us in the awful last half of 2004.
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Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28531 on: September 04, 2014, 01:04:15 am »
Fun trivia- without looking it up, when was the last time somebody laid 45 on Wabash? Hint: it's been a minute.

I recall Witt nearly dropping a fiddy burger on us in the awful last half of 2004.

Yeah.  49, but it's not quite that far back.

Whitewater- playoff game?  A guess.

That was 47.  Closer, but there was one other instance since that Whitewater game. 
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“The O line has proven they can block some of the best in the conference and I can't wait to see what they do on Saturday." Matt Hunt, DePauw Quarterback, Sacked 5 times in the 121st Monon Bell Classic

Offline Li'l Giant

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28532 on: September 04, 2014, 01:11:29 am »
Wheaton playoff game? Did they score that much? I repressed that game.
“I believe in God and I believe I'm gonna go to Heaven, but if something goes wrong and I end up in Hell, I know it’s gonna be me and a bunch of D3 officials.”---Erik Raeburn

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Offline Old Pal Wes

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28533 on: September 04, 2014, 02:18:51 am »
I've watched film too. Your right Wittenberg is not anything like HSC. You'll see more open back fields than 2 TE sets.  Preparing for HSC is not easy to replicate. 100% non-traditional. It's a cross between, the spread, run and shoot, razzle dazzle, heavy metal and chaos.

I have no clue what any of this means. Non-traditional doesn't mean it's hard. I don't think it's even that non-traditional. Y'all get in a few different personnel groups and lots of formations within those groups. It's the same base plays out of multiple looks. It's mostly 2 back in one way or another. 3 WR & a wing seemed to be the most common. Saw some wing & TE looks or tight bunch to try to outgap people. Saw some 1 back & 2 TE. Also did see basic spread stuff - 2x2 & 3x1. It's a kitchen sink offense formationally. Lots of those will motion back to the normal stuff (example - starting in 2x2 but motioning the fullback back in to run iso/power.) I haven't seen anything exotic run game wise. Saw some power, iso, outside zone, and a few counters. Actually, you're a really good outside zone team, especially when you shrink the formation down. I think it's OZ first to set up the power. Vertical passing game is a threat from just about every formation. Didn't see a ton of true dropbacks. Did see lots and lots of playaction. Y'all love to try to get the inside receiver through the top. Lots of double fades to the 2 receiver side. Or curl/fade. Or post/post. Q can throw the deep ball very well. He wants to hit home runs. He will take chances with the ball when his receiver may not be winning. It's definitely a run first offense. Then try to hit big ones in the playaction game.

I expect Wabash to get exotic up front. They already do a lot of that. They show tons of slants, twists, blitzes. That's why odd front is such a pain in the ass. They're going to make those OL think about all the gap scheme assignments. I doubt Wabash is going to let themselves get beat in the run game. Not to say that HSC can't just line up in 3x1 and sling it. They can. But they don't appear nearly as comfortable doing that as they do in 2 back running OZ and power. Wabash will probably try to do it with 7 up front if they can. I expect lots of slants and twists to try to mess with the fullback's kickout on power and the OL's zone rules. Schematically, I don't think it's anything earth-shattering from HSC. They've got some dudes. Either they're going to make plays or they're not.
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Old Pal please tell me you were not up til 2:18 am breaking down film in order to reply to a wisecrack remark I made about the HSC offense.

He can't help it.  Coaches gonna coach.

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28534 on: September 04, 2014, 08:24:02 am »
Wheaton playoff game? Did they score that much? I repressed that game.

Bingo. They hung a 59-burger on us. That escalated quickly.
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

“The O line has proven they can block some of the best in the conference and I can't wait to see what they do on Saturday." Matt Hunt, DePauw Quarterback, Sacked 5 times in the 121st Monon Bell Classic

Offline tigerfanalso

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28535 on: September 04, 2014, 08:40:04 am »
Damn, you guys are working too hard. I think Wally's assesment is spot on. If both teams play well I expect this game to be in the 27 to 24 range, if one of the teams don't play well, turn the ball over, etc., it could get ugly for that team. Let's hope both teams show up with their "A" game and we all get to watch a great D3 game in the first "Gentleman's Classic" (I hate that name). Look forward to the Wabash experience. Save travels to all.

Offline HSCTiger fan

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28536 on: September 04, 2014, 08:56:24 am »
Old Pal please tell me you were not up til 2:18 am breaking down film in order to reply to a wisecrack remark I made about the HSC offense. 
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Offline firstdown

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28537 on: September 04, 2014, 09:15:44 am »
A couple of thoughts.  First, a key to the game will be the Wabash running game.  With Holmes and Zurek back, they will do a couple of things.  First move the ball and eat into the clock.  If Nash Nance is standing on the sidelines, he can't be slinging the ball.  Also, this keeps the Wabash D on the sidelines and a bit more rested when they come on the field.  If the HS defense cheats up and puts 9 or 10 in the box to stop the run,  this will open up the passing  game for Wabash.

Wabash may have corner that is 5'9", but he has blazing speed and has spent many hours doing strength and conditioning.  An errant throw in his direction can quickly turn into an interception or pick 6.  In general, Wheaton has a group of tall receivers.  The Wabash defenders contained them very well in Saturday's scrimmage, and delivered some very hard hits when the ball arrived that resulted drops and a fumble.  No question that the HS tall receivers will be a challenge, but the Bash defensive backs can run with them and will hit hard.

The kicking game will be interesting.  Tutsie showed that he was well up to task on extra points and field goals.  One of the new punters shanked his first punt, but he and the other punter did kick quite well thereafter. 

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28538 on: September 04, 2014, 09:41:14 am »
Old Pal please tell me you were not up til 2:18 am breaking down film in order to reply to a wisecrack remark I made about the HSC offense.

He can't help it.  Coaches gonna coach. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

“The O line has proven they can block some of the best in the conference and I can't wait to see what they do on Saturday." Matt Hunt, DePauw Quarterback, Sacked 5 times in the 121st Monon Bell Classic

Offline USee

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28539 on: September 04, 2014, 09:59:51 am »
I thought Wally's analysis was cogent and sound (as usual). 1st game  has a lot of variables that are hard to predict. As a semi-interested 3rd party I like an experienced defense at home against just about anybody in an opener. Good defense usually beats good offense. The reason that happens early in the season is timing and speed are so hard to adjust to for an offense, even an experienced offense. That usually results in turnovers. So I concur the most important stat in this one is the turnover battle and the winner is +something.
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Offline HSCTiger fan

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28540 on: September 04, 2014, 10:36:55 am »
I agree that experienced defenses generally win. Especially early in the season when playing a less experienced offense. That's one reason why I think HSC wins. Everyone keeps talking about the HSC offense when in reality the best part of the team may be its defense. They have just as much if not more experience on defense and a much more experienced offense.  Wabash starts 4 seniors on defense to HSC's 6 seniors on offense. Wabash starts 3 seniors on offense to HSC's 7 on defense. 

HSC has 34 Juniors and Seniors in the 2 deep. Wabash has 25.  HSC players have played AND won big games. I doubt many of the Wabash seniors played much as freshmen - the last year they were in the playoffs. HSC is the more experienced team. That's just numbers.  I believe that experience will matter.  I'm sure there will be lots of well thought out reasons why it doesn't. But if the shoe were on the other foot - I bet you guys would be standing on it.
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Offline smedindy

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28541 on: September 04, 2014, 10:54:11 am »
Don't say the Monon Bell Game isn't a big game. It's the biggest game.

Offline ExTartanPlayer

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28542 on: September 04, 2014, 10:54:19 am »
Wabash may have corner that is 5'9", but he has blazing speed and has spent many hours doing strength and conditioning.

OK, I know the player in question is a fine player, but this made me laugh out loud.  Every serious college football player has spent many hours doing strength and conditioning.  This isn't 1965; "doing strength and conditioning" is part of the normal deal now.

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28543 on: September 04, 2014, 11:13:22 am »
I agree that experienced defenses generally win. Especially early in the season when playing a less experienced offense. That's one reason why I think HSC wins. Everyone keeps talking about the HSC offense when in reality the best part of the team may be its defense. They have just as much if not more experience on defense and a much more experienced offense.  Wabash starts 4 seniors on defense to HSC's 6 seniors on offense. Wabash starts 3 seniors on offense to HSC's 7 on defense. 

HSC has 34 Juniors and Seniors in the 2 deep. Wabash has 25.  HSC players have played AND won big games. I doubt many of the Wabash seniors played much as freshmen - the last year they were in the playoffs. HSC is the more experienced team. That's just numbers.  I believe that experience will matter.  I'm sure there will be lots of well thought out reasons why it doesn't. But if the shoe were on the other foot - I bet you guys would be standing on it.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong.  I am saying that we're going to figure this out.  But before I jump feet first into sifting through four years of boxscores, we need to decide how this gets measured.  What do we mean by "more experienced"?  Is it just the number of upperclassmen involved?  If so, then we're done because you've already counted.  But that definition doesn't really have much context to it, right?  Should we count starts?  Games played?  I feel like we should flesh this out a little more than just saying one team has more seniors than the other team; ergo, more experienced. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

“The O line has proven they can block some of the best in the conference and I can't wait to see what they do on Saturday." Matt Hunt, DePauw Quarterback, Sacked 5 times in the 121st Monon Bell Classic

Offline ExTartanPlayer

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Re: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #28544 on: September 04, 2014, 11:26:44 am »
I don't want to pile on here against HSCTigerfan, but I do have to second wally's point that just "having more seniors" doesn't necessarily equate to being "more experienced" and even if that does, that in itself is not necessarily a good thing.  Wabash is starting a sophomore CB who was so good as a freshman that they were comfortable enough moving their best defensive back (who had been starting from Game 1 as a freshman) to offense because they needed him more on that side of the ball.  I'd absolutely take a lineup of good sophomores and juniors who played some the year before over a lineup full of seniors without equivalent playing experience (to be clear, HSC's 7 seniors that are starting on defense are guys that started last year, I'm not calling them out...just making the point that "number of seniors" isn't the only factor here).

It is true that only one of the squads taking the field for the Gentlemen's Classic won a playoff game last year, and it wasn't Wabash.  That is a fair point.  I happen to believe that's a product of the D3 playoff system as much as anything: HSC's 8-2 still got them into the playoffs and then they beat another 8-2 team once they got into the playoffs, which Wabash might well have done given the opportunity, but the fact is that HSC is the team with a playoff scalp from 2013.  I think the game is a tossup, and I think the HSC fans have started to somehow perceive that they're the underdog despite being the team with a playoff W from last season, probably just because Wabash has a lot of guys who post here.  It'll be great stuff on Saturday, that's for sure, the kind of stuff we don't see as much as we'd like in Division III.  Hats off to the two schools for making it happen.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 11:30:53 am by ExTartanPlayer »