Author Topic: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference  (Read 4729864 times)

Online jknezek

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31800 on: October 15, 2015, 02:26:28 pm »
I think this shows that you really would be better served putting the leagues in "tiers" moreso than ranking every single one.  The huge numerical gap between the PAC at 11 and the NCAC at 18 makes it look like those leagues are really far apart, but I think the PAC and NCAC (ironically, the two leagues that I have the strongest ties to) are essentially the same league right now: two good, established contenders with a third/fourth team sort-of knocking at the door, then a very, very long drop-off.  I also have a ton of respect for Tipps, and don't really want this job myself, but that shows how hard it is to rank the entire middle of the division.

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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31801 on: October 15, 2015, 03:07:13 pm »
Keith and I have always had the same problem ranking the middle grouping in August. It used to be we would spend about an hour debating the merits of various conferences in that grouping but lately what we've done is taken the average ranking of each team in the conference, since we've already ranked teams at this point, and order them that way. Then we look to see if there are any individual head-to-head cases that would alter that order, and make whatever tweaks are necessary.
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Offline desertraider

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31802 on: October 15, 2015, 03:07:24 pm »
I think the only way to evaluate the OAC is to take Mount out of the equation. If you look at the other 9 teams (3-6 non conference) it compares more with the PAC (so like 12 in the conference ranking). I don't mean this in a "Mount Rules" way - but Mount has dominated the OAC for 23 years. Recently, it isn't just that they beat the other teams - they hammer them. When Mount is beating the rest of the conference 51-7 (for example) it puts them so far beyond the conference as a whole that it makes more sense to evaluate the conference without them being considered. The other conferences for the most part have had a consist 3 or 4 teams that are strong, somewhat relevant and competitive (at least from time to time) with the dominant team. UWW was pushed by conference foes in a few games over the years. With the exception of JCU last year in both games - Mount has had competitive OAC games with Berg (2 years ago?) and Cap in like 08/09. I say view the OAC with the other 9 teams only. The only other way to do it is to have an OAC v. NCAC/PAC or whomever challenge to cover the open date. Would be interesting.
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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31803 on: October 15, 2015, 04:52:55 pm »
I think the only way to evaluate the OAC is to take Mount out of the equation

I kind of see where you're going. I don't know if I'd take them completely out of the equation...that seems like punishing the OAC for having an elite team in it.

The bigger problem Mount presents is that they're so insanely good that we have nothing to compare them to in other conferences.  What are we supposed to do with a team that last year, had a point differential of +705? With Mount, it's like the numbers just cease to have any larger meaning. It's all just junk. No offense guys, but...47-0, 56-0, 61-0, 62-7, 51-7. It's the same game five times over. This start to the season is the same start who knows how many times over. There's nothing new here we haven't seen from Mount before

Offline Wabash Hokie

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31804 on: October 15, 2015, 06:03:09 pm »
And now back to our regularly scheduled programming, below are the game notes for this weekend's Wabash / Kenyon game.   Wabash is on fall break and has a home football game - hate it when that happens.





http://sports.wabash.edu/documents/2015/10/14//ReleaseOct142015.pdf?id=415

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31805 on: October 16, 2015, 02:31:09 pm »
I'm a little torn on what I want to see happen in Springfield tomorrow night and it's mainly because I don't have faith that a Denison win will be received the way it should be.  I think Wittenberg could win out and probably be regionally ranked at the end of the year- good news for Wabash.  However, Denison winning probably triggers a "I guess Wittenberg kind of stinks because they lost to Denison" narrative as opposed to a "hey, I guess Denison is pretty good" narrative (which would be more fair and accurate, IMO).  Then, if Denison goes on to lose to DePauw and Wabash, they probably don't get ranked- bad for Wabash. 

The fan in me wants Denison to win this game and verify a fourth pretty good team in the league (18th ranked league my left foot  :)).  My eye for selection/seeding criteria probably wants Wittenberg to win. 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 03:43:11 pm by wally_wabash »
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Offline Schwami

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31806 on: October 16, 2015, 03:28:42 pm »
I absolutely want Denison to win.  We really won't know until the season's over what game(s) really mattered in the end --- heck, it could come down to the Marietta / Capital game on November 14 (Denison beat Marietta; Wittenberg beat Capital --- two quality wins over the 4th ranked league  ;)).

Denison always gets fired up for the Witt game --- this could be their best chance to win in Springfield since 1952!  Two years ago they were in this game right up until the middle of the fourth quarter; last year they fell behind but rallied late and lost by 7.  Denison has a 9-game winning streak on the line, so there's also that.

True, Denison's win over OWU wasn't pretty, but it was in awful weather, and the games with OWU are always close.  And the win over Hiram was a distinct improvement over last year's loss!
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Offline Sir Battlescars

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31807 on: October 16, 2015, 06:04:03 pm »
I personally think it would be great to see Denison put up big numbers and come away with the win. They’re on a good run and would be nice to see them get some recognition, they deserve it.

And FWIW, I also think the OAC is ranked too high and the NCAC too low. When comparing the two conferences this year you obviously have Mount at the top and then under them you have Wabash who appears to be very good. At the next tier I would say you have JCU, ONU, Heidelberg and BW from the OAC and DePauw and Witt from the NCAC, all six of those teams seem to be very similar to me.
It would be nice if these two conferences would schedule each other more, that way this could be settled on the field. And the fans would love it.
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Offline ExTartanPlayer

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31808 on: October 16, 2015, 06:11:07 pm »
I'm a little torn on what I want to see happen in Springfield tomorrow night and it's mainly because I don't have faith that a Denison win will be received the way it should be.  I think Wittenberg could win out and probably be regionally ranked at the end of the year- good news for Wabash.  However, Denison winning probably triggers a "I guess Wittenberg kind of stinks because they lost to Denison" narrative as opposed to a "hey, I guess Denison is pretty good" narrative (which would be more fair and accurate, IMO).  Then, if Denison goes on to lose to DePauw and Wabash, they probably don't get ranked- bad for Wabash. 

The fan in me wants Denison to win this game and verify a fourth pretty good team in the league (18th ranked league my left foot  :)).  My eye for selection/seeding criteria probably wants Wittenberg to win.

I understand this train of thinking.  As an outsider, I want Denison to win because it's fun when undefeated teams meet late in the season and I'd love to see Denison vs. DePauw on 10/31 with both undefeated, then Wabash facing each of those two in successive weeks (so basically the last three weeks of the season would probably all have a game that had direct NCAC title implications).  But I think you're right that Denison winning will turn into "look, Wittenberg is down, the NCAC isn't any good."  Fair or not, I think you are correct that 8-2 Wittenberg with losses to DePauw and Wabash probably has a better chance of ending in the final RR's than 8-2 Denison with the same losses.

But...I'm on board with the Big Red defense.  Go Denison.  For now.

Offline USee

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31809 on: October 16, 2015, 06:20:23 pm »


I don't think I said anything negative about Mount Union.  I think I've been pretty effusive in my praise of Mount Union, actually.  But if you can't objectively look at the OAC and see that that league, taken as a whole, isn't very good in 2015, then you're just not looking.  And that's a conversation that can be had without introducing any other league for comparison.  Again, I wasn't trying to say that my league is better than your league.  I honestly haven't even given it any thought and I'm probably not going to.  There's just nowhere near enough intersecting data to make that assessment in an educated fashion.

This is a great statement Wally and I think it is true of almost all of these conference-conference comparisons. It's a crapshoot to figure out what's what.
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Offline cave2bens

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31810 on: October 17, 2015, 10:21:33 am »
A FYI trip tip for Wabash fans making the trek to Wooster next weekend - just spent two nights' there attending mother-in-law's funeral in nearby Orrville.  The local brewery puts out an excellent IPA (it was on draft at the Broken Rocks Cafe and Bakery on E Liberty as well as City Square Steakhouse) and the pizzas at Coccia on E Pittsburgh (extension of E Liberty after Bever Street intersection) are terrific!  IMHO, after our experience with the Market Street Inn proprietor, would recommend avoidance of her venue for overnight accommodation.  ::) :-X

That said, downtown Wooster is a great small town with a plethora of great restaurants and places to crash afterward - save a bit of time to run over to Lehman's in Kidron (just south of Orrville) and Shisler's Cheese Shop for some killer Heggis chocolates, Troyer's meats, and their cheese selections (the mango-habanero one is very interesting in a good way).  WAF! and safe results to everyone in today's games.

http://www.wooster.edu/about/visit/lodging/
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 06:56:46 pm by cave2bens »
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Offline aueagle

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31811 on: October 17, 2015, 12:27:51 pm »
I can't believe I'm saying this...This could be a key game for OWU this season.
Playing The Puppy out on the farm in Hiram..AND, after what HC did to the Bishops recently....
the Bishops need/should win...to keep pace in the middle of the pack in the conference
AND to save face in the recruiting wars of Ohio...Northeast Ohio in particular..
I liked what Bashbro said on the Vegas Line regarding the game...and so true.
I have this gut feeling that the Big Red is going to beat Witt today...this would be THE
breakout game for the their  program..and another notch in the over-all athletic department program
drive for excellence. Good luck to all...injury free.
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Offline 1837Tigers

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31812 on: October 17, 2015, 01:54:53 pm »
2nd Q scores -

DePauw 21, Allegheny 0

Wabash 7, Kenyon 0

OWU & Hiram tied at 14

Offline wabashcpa

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31813 on: October 17, 2015, 02:12:24 pm »
Wabash 7, Kenyon 0 at the half.

Not a very inspired effort from the offense, save for Zurek.  I expect the 2nd half to be a different story after some halftime"motivation".

Defense looks solid.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 02:17:24 pm by wabashcpa »

Offline bashbrother

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #31814 on: October 17, 2015, 02:24:09 pm »
ER should say only these words at half to the offense...

Who in the "Bleep" wants to play offense with Mason Zurek in the second half?

Why should you go for it on 4th down?

"To overcome the disappointment of not making it on third down." -- Washington State Coach Mike Leach