Author Topic: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference  (Read 4531841 times)

Offline sigma one

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34815 on: August 18, 2019, 01:16:37 pm »
Yep.  My bad.  Mea culpa.  2004

Offline CollegeGolf18

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34816 on: August 18, 2019, 02:34:42 pm »
Let's say Wabash goes 8-2 or 9-1.  I understand that some may think that this should trigger a review of the DM hire......but does anyone think that Wabash would fire him?  I don't.

Probably not next year, but again in 2020? Yes, I think it would be debated.

So, 9-1 in each of the next two years could trigger a review of your head coach? Who are you guys, Nebraska?

I, in fact, am very pleased with the job Morel has done. I was just simply stating that rumors around do not want a missed playoffs in 4 straight years.
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Online HCAlum86

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34817 on: August 19, 2019, 08:44:30 am »
Can anyone speak to Denison's roster?

I know the Big Red have improved vastly as a program, but what are their strengths without Gebele?
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Offline sigma one

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34818 on: August 19, 2019, 09:41:16 am »
Denison returns just 4 offensive starters this year.  Big losses at QB (Gebele), on the OL, and at WR.  They do bring back Minton at RB.  He is a special player who was 1st team all-conference last year.  They should be a force on defense, which I think will have to carry them early on.  Eight starters return:  3 on the DL, 2 LB, 3 DB.  Their kicker and punter both return.  Both are among the conference's best.   The defensive could be as good as any in the NCAC. 
     I know their 2019 roster is not up yet, but that's their picture by my count.
     The Big Red opens with Ohio Northern.  The result will tell us something.  They are on the road vs. Wabash and Wittenberg.  I'm guessing that Baldinger has the inside track at QB.  He's a senior (also plays baseball) who has waited behind Gebele.     
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:53:12 pm by sigma one »

Offline DPU1991

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34819 on: August 19, 2019, 04:51:11 pm »
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/football/college/region-collegians-region-well-represented-on-wabash-football-team/article_4f9b22d8-a816-5883-9d53-4064f385df57.html?fbclid=IwAR0Y_tyJdVhqjiDloHbir4BY6P3XgiZRflfwMZGsYbp_bSyxUj6xz6sSy7I

Friend of mine from high school wrote the article.  This quote from Morel has me struggling:

“The kids have higher expectations than me,” Morel said. “That’s what makes it such an easy place to coach.”

Great that the kids have high expectations, I would expect nothing less.  But higher than the head coach?  That's a disconnect for me.

Can't it just be that he's giving the players the spotlight?  I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that.

If it wasn't Morel, maybe.  But what exactly has he done to inspire confidence in anybody?  I commend him for the job he did keeping the kids together last year with dealing with the Hansen tragedy, but he has never exuded a championship vibe to me.  Do you think the kids had higher expectations than Creighton or Raeburn?  I don't.  If I'm reading too much into it, then guilty as charged.

Long time reader, first time poster here.

As a proud DePauw alum, I have to tell you guys, Wabash has been rolling over my Tigers for years now. DePauw has been on the wrong end of the Monon Bell 14 times since 2000, and all signs point to continued futility on our end (even though it is a little bit more competitive lately). Might I ask, with all sincerity, what exactly are you guys looking for in a coaching staff? We have our complaints with Lynch, but the numbers are in our favor. There is a real disconnect here in your case, at least as an outsider looking in. Also, lets be honest, "Championship Vibe" is what us old guys who don't know football try to say to stay relevant. It is truly an empty saying.

And, as an added bonus (and all in good fun, CPA) what was YOUR Monon Bell record over in Crawfordsville? :)

I was 4 - 0 here in Greencastle.

Offline ADL70

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34820 on: August 19, 2019, 09:23:34 pm »
Denison returns just 4 offensive starters this year.  Big losses at QB (Gebele), on the OL, and at WR.  They do bring back Minton at RB.  He is a special player who was 1st team all-conference last year.  They should be a force on defense, which I think will have to carry them early on.  Eight starters return:  3 on the DL, 2 LB, 3 DB.  Their kicker and punter both return.  Both are among the conference's best.   The defensive could be as good as any in the NCAC. 
     I know their 2019 roster is not up yet, but that's their picture by my count.
     The Big Red opens with Ohio Northern.  The result will tell us something.  They are on the road vs. Wabash and Wittenberg.  I guessing that Baldinger has the inside track at QB.  He's a senior (also plays baseball) who has waited behind Gebele.   


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Offline BayernFan

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34821 on: August 19, 2019, 11:28:58 pm »
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/football/college/region-collegians-region-well-represented-on-wabash-football-team/article_4f9b22d8-a816-5883-9d53-4064f385df57.html?fbclid=IwAR0Y_tyJdVhqjiDloHbir4BY6P3XgiZRflfwMZGsYbp_bSyxUj6xz6sSy7I

Friend of mine from high school wrote the article.  This quote from Morel has me struggling:

“The kids have higher expectations than me,” Morel said. “That’s what makes it such an easy place to coach.”

Great that the kids have high expectations, I would expect nothing less.  But higher than the head coach?  That's a disconnect for me.

Can't it just be that he's giving the players the spotlight?  I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that.

If it wasn't Morel, maybe.  But what exactly has he done to inspire confidence in anybody?  I commend him for the job he did keeping the kids together last year with dealing with the Hansen tragedy, but he has never exuded a championship vibe to me.  Do you think the kids had higher expectations than Creighton or Raeburn?  I don't.  If I'm reading too much into it, then guilty as charged.

Long time reader, first time poster here.

As a proud DePauw alum, I have to tell you guys, Wabash has been rolling over my Tigers for years now. DePauw has been on the wrong end of the Monon Bell 14 times since 2000, and all signs point to continued futility on our end (even though it is a little bit more competitive lately). Might I ask, with all sincerity, what exactly are you guys looking for in a coaching staff? We have our complaints with Lynch, but the numbers are in our favor. There is a real disconnect here in your case, at least as an outsider looking in. Also, lets be honest, "Championship Vibe" is what us old guys who don't know football try to say to stay relevant. It is truly an empty saying.

And, as an added bonus (and all in good fun, CPA) what was YOUR Monon Bell record over in Crawfordsville? :)

I was 4 - 0 here in Greencastle.

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Offline wabashcpa

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34822 on: August 20, 2019, 10:54:45 am »
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/football/college/region-collegians-region-well-represented-on-wabash-football-team/article_4f9b22d8-a816-5883-9d53-4064f385df57.html?fbclid=IwAR0Y_tyJdVhqjiDloHbir4BY6P3XgiZRflfwMZGsYbp_bSyxUj6xz6sSy7I

Friend of mine from high school wrote the article.  This quote from Morel has me struggling:

“The kids have higher expectations than me,” Morel said. “That’s what makes it such an easy place to coach.”

Great that the kids have high expectations, I would expect nothing less.  But higher than the head coach?  That's a disconnect for me.

Can't it just be that he's giving the players the spotlight?  I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that.

If it wasn't Morel, maybe.  But what exactly has he done to inspire confidence in anybody?  I commend him for the job he did keeping the kids together last year with dealing with the Hansen tragedy, but he has never exuded a championship vibe to me.  Do you think the kids had higher expectations than Creighton or Raeburn?  I don't.  If I'm reading too much into it, then guilty as charged.

Long time reader, first time poster here.

As a proud DePauw alum, I have to tell you guys, Wabash has been rolling over my Tigers for years now. DePauw has been on the wrong end of the Monon Bell 14 times since 2000, and all signs point to continued futility on our end (even though it is a little bit more competitive lately). Might I ask, with all sincerity, what exactly are you guys looking for in a coaching staff? We have our complaints with Lynch, but the numbers are in our favor. There is a real disconnect here in your case, at least as an outsider looking in. Also, lets be honest, "Championship Vibe" is what us old guys who don't know football try to say to stay relevant. It is truly an empty saying.

And, as an added bonus (and all in good fun, CPA) what was YOUR Monon Bell record over in Crawfordsville? :)

I was 4 - 0 here in Greencastle.

1-3, finally won in '91.  Bell's are great, better to have it than not have it, but it shouldn't be the end game.  The whole point of the original post was about expectations.  Morel is quoted as saying the players have higher expectations than him.  So what exactly are Morel's expectations?  Makes you wonder.  My expectations are playoffs, especially with the returning talent.  Nothing less.

Offline ExTartanPlayer

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34823 on: August 21, 2019, 01:24:13 pm »
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/football/college/region-collegians-region-well-represented-on-wabash-football-team/article_4f9b22d8-a816-5883-9d53-4064f385df57.html?fbclid=IwAR0Y_tyJdVhqjiDloHbir4BY6P3XgiZRflfwMZGsYbp_bSyxUj6xz6sSy7I
Friend of mine from high school wrote the article.  This quote from Morel has me struggling:

“The kids have higher expectations than me,” Morel said. “That’s what makes it such an easy place to coach.”

Great that the kids have high expectations, I would expect nothing less.  But higher than the head coach?  That's a disconnect for me.

Can't it just be that he's giving the players the spotlight?  I don't think it has to be any more complicated than that.

If it wasn't Morel, maybe.  But what exactly has he done to inspire confidence in anybody?  I commend him for the job he did keeping the kids together last year with dealing with the Hansen tragedy, but he has never exuded a championship vibe to me.  Do you think the kids had higher expectations than Creighton or Raeburn?  I don't.  If I'm reading too much into it, then guilty as charged.

Long time reader, first time poster here.

As a proud DePauw alum, I have to tell you guys, Wabash has been rolling over my Tigers for years now. DePauw has been on the wrong end of the Monon Bell 14 times since 2000, and all signs point to continued futility on our end (even though it is a little bit more competitive lately). Might I ask, with all sincerity, what exactly are you guys looking for in a coaching staff? We have our complaints with Lynch, but the numbers are in our favor. There is a real disconnect here in your case, at least as an outsider looking in. Also, lets be honest, "Championship Vibe" is what us old guys who don't know football try to say to stay relevant. It is truly an empty saying.

And, as an added bonus (and all in good fun, CPA) what was YOUR Monon Bell record over in Crawfordsville? :)

I was 4 - 0 here in Greencastle.

1-3, finally won in '91.  Bell's are great, better to have it than not have it, but it shouldn't be the end game.  The whole point of the original post was about expectations.  Morel is quoted as saying the players have higher expectations than him.  So what exactly are Morel's expectations?  Makes you wonder.  My expectations are playoffs, especially with the returning talent.  Nothing less.

My high school head coach is 302-82-1 with a state title and something like 17 division/league titles in 32 seasons, and he says something like that Morel quote in almost every season preview for the local paper.  Sometimes there is no deeper reading, it's just about a coach wanting to express how proud he is to coach such highly motivated kids.

This is likely to tank my karma, or at least get some "We have CHAMPIONSHIP expectations" pushback, but here goes...

To expand on the "what exactly are you guys looking for in a coaching staff" point: Wabash went 9-1 and shared the league title last year in a season where they lost an elite running back (who accounted for most of their 2017 offense) after just two games.  That record includes an overtime win on the road against an unbeaten Wittenberg team (always a challenge; the last guy lost to Wittenberg half the time).  Morel was named NCAC Coach of the Year.  Against this backdrop, the attitude from some of the fan base is that another 8-2 season would mean it's time to consider opening the position.  Really tremendous stuff here.  You'd think we were talking about Texas or USC.

If the complaint is something like "But they lose dumb games that they shouldn't" - their losses under Morel are 2018 Denison (8-2, made the playoffs); 2017 Ohio Wesleyan (5-5); 2017 Wittenberg (10-1, made playoffs); 2016 Wittenberg (10-2, made playoffs); 2016 DePauw (8-2 team with two of their best players in recent history).  There's one loss on that list against a team that wasn't either a) that season's league champion or b) your biggest rival quarterbacked by maybe the best QB they've ever had completing the winning touchdown pass to one of the best receivers they've ever had, who also happened to be his brother to break a long losing streak in the rivalry game (a movie ending if there ever was one).  Heck, he hasn't even lost to Oberlin or Allegheny yet, something the last guy managed to do in the same season.

If the complaint is something like "OK, he beats all the bad teams, but he can't win any big games" - in 2017, they pulled out a nailbiter against an 8-1 DePauw team playing for a shot at Pool C in addition to retaining the Monon Bell (going for 2 in the 4th quarter at 21-20 takes some stones, that's a "coach is a genius if it works and an idiot if it doesn't" move).  Last year, they beat an undefeated Wittenberg team on the road to keep their playoff hopes alive.  Sure, they've lost a couple of big games, but they've won some, too.  So far he's 1-2 against Wittenberg (Raeburn was 4-4) and 2-1 against DePauw (but arguably much better DePauw teams than during the Raeburn era).  The OWU loss is bad, but surely no worse than the 2012 team's losing to Allegheny or Oberlin.  I guess Raeburn had been to the playoffs already, so he was a Football Guy(TM) and a Winner who had earned some slack. 

Was Morel handed a program in good shape?  Of course.  But it's not that easy to churn out 8-9 wins every year without doing a few things right of your own, even if you're starting off with a pretty good roster.  It's absolutely fair for fans of a program to critique the strengths and weaknesses of their team / personnel, but some of this stuff is just ridiculous (e.g. asking "what has he done to inspire confidence" about a coach coming off a 9-1 season that included wins over both your biggest rival and the other 'best program' in the league). 

Offline Li'l Giant

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34824 on: August 22, 2019, 02:12:05 pm »
I wasn't trying to suggest that DM should be on the hot seat, especially if he's stringing together 9-1 and 8-2 seasons. Nor was I suggesting we're Texas or USC. I'm not sure any of us said that.

I think it's worth noting that since Chris Creighton coached Wabash to the playoffs in 2002 we've never had more than 2 seasons without a trip to the playoffs. We're at 3 currently. Why is the expectation that kind of regularity continues unreasonable? Especially given the talent level and resources Wabash puts into football?

It seems like ancient history but in 2000 our head coach at the time had won lots of games, graduated lots of great student athletes, and was a very steady hand at the wheel. He's (to this day) just one win behind the all time winning coach in school history.

But a change needed to be made and the result was the CC and ER eras. What most of us who remember the pre-CC era don't want is a return to that. The longer we go without the playoffs, the more it's going to feel that way.

We only did better than 7-3 once when I was a student (9-1, no bell) and yes, I'm glad we are better now than then, but I want us to stay better than we were then, and, heaven forbid, get better still.

How is any of that unreasonable?
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Online wally_wabash

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34825 on: August 22, 2019, 03:29:50 pm »
I wasn't trying to suggest that DM should be on the hot seat, especially if he's stringing together 9-1 and 8-2 seasons. Nor was I suggesting we're Texas or USC. I'm not sure any of us said that.

I think it's worth noting that since Chris Creighton coached Wabash to the playoffs in 2002 we've never had more than 2 seasons without a trip to the playoffs. We're at 3 currently. Why is the expectation that kind of regularity continues unreasonable? Especially given the talent level and resources Wabash puts into football?

It seems like ancient history but in 2000 our head coach at the time had won lots of games, graduated lots of great student athletes, and was a very steady hand at the wheel. He's (to this day) just one win behind the all time winning coach in school history.

But a change needed to be made and the result was the CC and ER eras. What most of us who remember the pre-CC era don't want is a return to that. The longer we go without the playoffs, the more it's going to feel that way.

We only did better than 7-3 once when I was a student (9-1, no bell) and yes, I'm glad we are better now than then, but I want us to stay better than we were then, and, heaven forbid, get better still.

How is any of that unreasonable?

The callback to pre-CC times is an interesting one.  In 1999 the division adopted the current automatic bid model for championship participation.  Prior to that, access was much more limited, so playoff participation pre and post 1999 isn't quite an apples to apples thing.  But we can draw some meaningful comparisons, I think.  In the decade of the 90s, Wabash won the ICAC/HCAC four times in ten years.  Adjusted for current access rules, Wabash would have been a playoff team in 91-92-94-98.  Those teams won 7, 6, 6, and 9 games, BUT, would have been playoff teams per today's rules. 

In the 2000s, Wabash won their conference in 02-05-06-07-08.  So five championships vs. four from the previous decade.  Not that different if we're counting conference championships, really.  Playoff trips- Wabash didn't go in 2006, but did go as an at-large in 2009, so that's a push.  If there is a major difference between the records in these two decades, it is certainly that Wabash, even in non-championship years, was generally lingering around the just in/just out bubble.  The 90s teams (save 98), would have been nowhere close to at-large consideration. 

This decade, Wabash has won conference championships in 11-15-18.  2018 did not get a bid despite the shared championship, but Wabash did go to the tournament as an at large in 2014.  With just 2019 left in this decade, Wabash can max out at four conference championships and four playoff bids.  Which again isn't that different than the 90s if we're applying post-1998 playoff rules to pre-1998 teams.   

None of that is to say that present day Wabash is equivalent to 90s era Wabash.  That's obviously false.  The frequency of conference championships (and the hypothetical playoff bids associated with conference championships) aren't that different though.  I do think present day Wabash is much, much closer to 2015 Wabash (maybe the peak of the current era?) than they are to 1994 or even 1998 Wabash. 
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Offline Li'l Giant

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34826 on: August 22, 2019, 04:58:21 pm »
The playoff stuff I concede. Yes, there were different rules. But, would we all be happy with a 6 or 7 win season, even if we made the playoffs? I'm guessing not. Especially since a 6-7 win playoff team is likely getting boatraced in the 1st round. 

Those 90s teams have (very hard earned) hardware, but there's more that's different between then and now than the AQ system. And let's be clear: I'm not here to slander those 90s era teams. Many of our friends played for those teams and we saw the hard work they put in and we were sure as hell proud of them.
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Offline wabashcpa

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34827 on: August 22, 2019, 06:04:51 pm »
Good point on the playoff eras not really being comparable, the 91 team was solid, Kogan was a stud back, very good defense.  Don't think I saw any games in the Chris Ings era, but I know he was a tough son of a gun.  The 98 team got whacked in the Bell Game (where it seemed they knew everything we were doing, wonder why).  I would love to have seen what some of those teams could have done in a playoff setting.  Carlson's legacy might be quite different.

Offline BayernFan

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34828 on: August 23, 2019, 05:26:00 pm »
Carlson did take St. Scholastica to the playoffs a time or two didn't he?

Offline smedindy

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Re: FB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #34829 on: August 27, 2019, 12:00:12 pm »
It's a little more difficult each year to get into the playoffs if you lose a game. There are more teams in contention for playoff spots it seems, and more teams that can upset a conference's apple cart.

Not to say the elite aren't the elite, but below that elite tier there's more decent teams that can screw up a league's playoff coronation.

Really, though, it's much better for the NCAC to have a non-Witt non-Wabash get into the playoffs.