Author Topic: Around the Nation board  (Read 331174 times)

Offline HScoach

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1935 on: October 25, 2010, 04:16:03 pm »
I wouldn't count Delaware Valley out of the #1 seed race. While the NCAA committee broke new ground in stating, and actually trying, to get the top 4 teams as #1's, it isn't obious to me that they are comfortable moving teams into regions where there are already undefeated teams already in the region. I suspect if you end up with Montclair and Del Valley undefeated you will see UWW and St Thomas stay West, UMU and NCC/Wheaton stay North and Wesley/UMHB stay south.

We have seen a lot of  movement between regions in recent years leading to much speculation about who and where. Most of the time it has been out of accomodation. We shouldn't jump the gun and assume a "regional reshuffling". I would think the committee may be just as content to let teams slug it out within their region when it's possible.

I left Delaware Valley off the list because they've lost already.  Yes, it was to Wesley who is officially a south region team, but I assume the NCAA won't give a 9-1 team the #1 seed in the east when the north has two legit candidates, one of which has already been moved east  before to give that bracket an undefeated #1 seed.  With the NCAA's shifting of Mount the last few years to the east, it seems logical to think that they'll do it again if the situation plays out that the traditional east is without an undefeated team.
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Offline HScoach

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1936 on: October 25, 2010, 04:17:21 pm »
^ Nevermind.   Please disregard my above post.  The words "NCAA" and "logical" placed in the same sentence makes the whole post junk.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1937 on: October 25, 2010, 09:52:37 pm »
Del Valley-Wesley was an in-region game.

Offline HScoach

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1938 on: October 25, 2010, 10:02:34 pm »
Del Valley-Wesley was an in-region game.

Ah, then scratch Del Valley off the list of potential #1's.
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live.

Offline K-Mack

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1939 on: October 26, 2010, 02:29:00 pm »
Just for the record, Pat and I address all of this (and make some of the same points) in the podcast. If you have, oh, an hour or so to spare.

This from Rick Reilly in the latest why-isn't-Boise-State-treated-fairly-by-the-BCS column:

Quote
It's the biggest rip-off since the Nigerian prince scam. It makes you wonder why you watch college football at all.

 :o
Author, Around the Nation
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and one of the two voices behind the sonic #d3fb nerdery that is the ATN Podcast.

Offline 02 Warhawk

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1940 on: October 26, 2010, 02:32:19 pm »
Just for the record, Pat and I address all of this (and make some of the same points) in the podcast. If you have, oh, an hour or so to spare.

This from Rick Reilly in the latest why-isn't-Boise-State-treated-fairly-by-the-BCS column:

Quote
It's the biggest rip-off since the Nigerian prince scam. It makes you wonder why you watch college football at all.

 :o

Good to know that D3 does it correctly.
@popsofone

Offline K-Mack

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1941 on: October 26, 2010, 11:59:48 pm »
Just found an old column with a couple ideas in it:

We need to have the Bridgewater/Franklin/St. John's (Wesley?) tailgate-off in Salem this year.

Also we need to have the unofficial (for liability reasons) D-III alumni flag game, the morning of Stagg, somewhere in Roanoke or Salem. Make this happen!

(wait, that's my job?)
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Offline hazzben

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1942 on: October 29, 2010, 11:41:44 am »
Regarding this weeks ATN article.

I'm not buying the 'too many schools in a small location' argument. It completely ignores the population of many of these states. Massachusetts, PA, NJ, NY are not exactly hard up for people. Yes, they've got a lot of colleges (some very good ones by the way), but they've got loads of people as well.

Case in Point. Keith mentions Massachusetts having 20 DIII schools. Here's a fair comparison:

Massachusetts: population 6.6 million

Iowa: pop 3 million 19 small college teams*, FCS: UNI, Drake
Minnesota: pop 5.2 million 16 small college teams, 8 D II (doesn't even take into consideration the pillaging UND, NDSU, SDSU & USD do with MN HS players)
Wisconsin: pop 5.6 mill - 16 Small college teams

That sure looks like apples to apples to me. You could even make the case that the latter 3 have it tougher given the schools and population numbers. But you don't hear us crying and we've put some very competitive teams on the national stage.

And if you take the last 20 years. It hasn't been just Mount & UWW. You have to include UWLax, SJU, PLU, & Linfield as national champs.

Bottom line, I think the East just needs to improve. Rowan was right on the cusp for years, as the article states. Ithaca made hay for a while. What, the population suddenly decreased out there since the 80's and 90's? Teams from the East can and have competed in the past. They don't have any real limitations from what I can see.

I don't think this is anything more than better football players and coaches in the other regions.

*Small college teams = DIII or NAIA. You have to consider NAIA schools in this equation because they are a definite recruiting hurdle DIII schools with NAIA fb neighbors face. Much more so than even D II and FCS.
Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation.Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are. John Wooden

Offline frank uible

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1943 on: October 29, 2010, 12:08:53 pm »
It is a matter of emphasis. As a general proposition college football is more important to the people of Wisconsin than to the people of Massachusetts, and consequently there is better college football in Wisconsin than in Massachusetts.

Offline HScoach

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1944 on: October 29, 2010, 04:22:45 pm »
I don't buy the numbers thing either.  I agree more with Frank's point above.  I have loved Keith's writing over the years, but think this one is too easy of an excuse for the current eastern schools. 

There are a ton of colleges in Ohio fighting for a players in a population base that's ever shrinking.  Whereas the article makes it sound like only in the east region is their a tough time finding quality recruits due to numbers.    Here's a list of Ohio colleges that I made a few years ago that might be missing a couple new NAIA or D2 schools, but it makes my point regardless.

DI-FBS
1.  Ohio State University
2.  Akron
3.  Bowling Green
4.  Kent State
5.  Miami
6.  Ohio U.
7.  Toledo
8.  Cincinnatti

DI-FCS
9.  Dayton
10.  Youngstown State

DII
11.  Ashland
12.  Findlay
13.  Tiffin
14.  Central State U.
15.  Lake Erie College


DIII
16.  Baldwin Wallace
17.  Bluffton
18.  Capital
19.  Case Westeren
20.  Defiance
21.  Dennison
22.  Heidelberg
23.  Hiram
24.  John Carroll
25.  Kenyon
26.  Marietta
27.  Mt. St. Joseph
28.  Mount Union
29.  Muskingham
30.  Oberlin
31.  Ohio Northern
32.  Ohio Wesleyan
33.  Otterbein
34.  Wilmington
35.  Wittenberg
36.  Wooster

NAIA
37.  Ohio Domincan
38.  Malone moving to D2
39.  Walsh moving to D2
40. Notre Dame College moving to D2 (I think)  / might already be D2
I find easily offended people rather offensive!

Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is interesting, what they hide is essential.

The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live.

Offline Ron Boerger

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1945 on: October 29, 2010, 04:36:53 pm »
I've heard that high school football is declining in popularity in many parts of the country; could that be a factor in the east? 

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1946 on: October 29, 2010, 05:39:58 pm »
With regards to the East I think it's a mix of a couple factors.

NY Football hasn't been a hotbed of prime football talent lately, they're not where it once was with regards to the quality of players.  The number of D-1 Scholarship players out of NY has been declining lately, no big time schools come to NY to find football players.  The other states have lapped NY in regards to talent on the gridiron big time. 

A lot more programs are becoming more attractive to perspective players than before.  When you get programs that start to become relevant it takes talent away from the more traditional powers.  10 years ago all the good to great players at SJF would probably have ended up at Ithaca, Cortland or Buffalo State.  Does anyone really think that players like Jason Boltus (Hartwick) or Mark Robinson (SJF) would have went to their respective schools 10 years ago?  I sincerely doubt it.

Football Schools in NY:

DI-FBS (3)
Buffalo
Syracuse
Army Black Knights

D1-FCS (8)
Albany Great Danes
Colgate Red Raiders
Columbia Lions
Cornell Big Red
Fordham Rams
Marist Red Foxes
Stony Brook Seawolves
Wagner Seahawks

DII (2)
Pace Setters
C. W. Post Pioneers

DIII (17):
Alfred
Brockport Golden
Buffalo State
Cortland Red
Hartwick
Hamilton
Hobart
Ithaca
Merchant Marine
Morrisville
Rensselaer Polytechnic
Rochester Yellow
Saint John Fisher
Saint Lawrence
SUNY-Maritime
Union
Utica

NJCAA (6):
Alfred State
ASA
ECC
Global IT
Hudson Valley
Nassau

With the lack of talented players and more attractive options for graduating High School Seniors it has a big time effect on the quality of teams in the New York.

Offline frank uible

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1947 on: October 29, 2010, 07:58:36 pm »
The quality gap between Ohio college football and New York college football is nothing new. It existed in the 50s.

Offline hazzben

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1948 on: October 29, 2010, 08:36:51 pm »
I've heard that high school football is declining in popularity in many parts of the country; could that be a factor in the east? 

Really?? I think it's the opposite. But I have no data to back that up...
Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation.Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others think you are. John Wooden

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #1949 on: October 29, 2010, 08:59:37 pm »
I've heard that high school football is declining in popularity in many parts of the country; could that be a factor in the east? 

Really?? I think it's the opposite. But I have no data to back that up...

My impression (also no data) is that Ron is correct - the rise of soccer and lacrosse (and continued rise of basketball, not to mention the possible decline in sports, period, due to video games) makes me think football is simply not the 'religion' it was 20-30 years ago (in at least many places).