Author Topic: Around the Nation board  (Read 334845 times)

Offline K-Mack

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2595 on: November 07, 2012, 03:31:54 am »
At the D3 level, I don't think home or away means much.   It's not like you're playing in front of 100,000 people and can't hear the play calls like bigtime D1.   

Sure, it's nice to be at home, but unless it's crazy long travel or playing in weather conditions different than at home, it doesn't mean much to me.

True, but that is balanced by infrequent overnight travel for many D-III teams, and in games when a team flies, I think it becomes a bigger deal.

I'm saying I don't value the data much. Teams do play better at home, but I don't think a win should be "worth" more based on where it took place. I have some of my own biases from being a player -- the fewer distractions thing being one, me personally enjoying travel and seeing new places and having time on the bus to focus on the tasks at hand, and enjoying the challenge of playing in front of another team's fans, who were occasionally hostile.

It's more of the former though. For the purposes of putting a team into the playoffs, I prefer something like quarters led or points in h2h games among tied teams (though that can be screwy) rather than differentiating home and road wins.

Argh, got distracted and off topic again.
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Offline K-Mack

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2596 on: November 07, 2012, 03:47:17 am »
Came to post this. From the NCAC conference office, for my friends who check the ATN board.

Quote
Here's our list of tiebreakers, as written by the coaches. They're slightly different than what I've seen on the boards, particularly #2. The trick with #2, and it may or may not apply in all scenarios, is you have to wait for the final standings to determine the tie-break. It may not apply depending on common opponents on the way down, and it could just as easily not break on the way up if teams all beat each other, but if that tie-breaker comes into play, we need to wait until Saturday is over because the final order of standings is the key.

1. Head-to-Head result(s) between tied teams.

2. Result(s) versus individual opponents examined in descending order, individually, until tie is broken. The tied teams must have a common opponent in order for the result to be considered; if not a common opponent, move to the next team in the standings. The first team to have beaten a higher-ranked team that is a common opponent wins the tiebreaker. If the tie is not broken in the descending order review, start from the bottom of the standings and examine opponents in ascending order. The first team to have lost to a lower-ranked team loses the tiebreaker (no common opponent provision in ascending review).

3. The team with the fewest losses in conference away games.

4. The team with the higher preseason power ranking used to determine conference schedule. This provision would not apply if a tiebreaker had been used to separate the teams in final power ranking.

5. The team with the longest active winning streak in conference play at the end of the season.

6. The team that has not participated in the NCAA playoffs for the longest period of years.

7. Coin Toss.

When three or more teams are tied, the same procedure shall be followed until one team is eliminated. The process shall then be repeated until one team emerges.

And, as you know this is just for the AQ, any tied teams will be declared co-champs.

If, for example, everybody at the top of the NCAC wins on Saturday, including Wabash over DePauw and Allegheny over Hiram ... then I believe there is nobody who has played all three of OWU, Witt and Kenyon and hasn't lost all three games. So go to ascending order, and the tie breaks with Kenyon having lost to OWU (and not played Witt or Wabash), and Witt and OWU having lost to Wabash, the lower-ranked (but 28 points better) team.

Witt plays at Oberlin
Denison at Kenyon
Wooster at OWU
DePauw at Wabash
Allegheny at Hiram

Many things could happen. What if the top three all lost and moved Wabash back into a tie at the top?

If it came down to conference away losses, only Kenyon has one. That would eliminate them and go back to OWU and Witt tied though, and it might go to preseason power ranking (which is a little wacky, to be honest)
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Offline USee

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2597 on: November 07, 2012, 08:21:16 am »
At the D3 level, I don't think home or away means much.   It's not like you're playing in front of 100,000 people and can't hear the play calls like bigtime D1.   

Sure, it's nice to be at home, but unless it's crazy long travel or playing in weather conditions different than at home, it doesn't mean much to me.

True, but that is balanced by infrequent overnight travel for many D-III teams, and in games when a team flies, I think it becomes a bigger deal.

I'm saying I don't value the data much. Teams do play better at home, but I don't think a win should be "worth" more based on where it took place. I have some of my own biases from being a player -- the fewer distractions thing being one, me personally enjoying travel and seeing new places and having time on the bus to focus on the tasks at hand, and enjoying the challenge of playing in front of another team's fans, who were occasionally hostile.

It's more of the former though. For the purposes of putting a team into the playoffs, I prefer something like quarters led or points in h2h games among tied teams (though that can be screwy) rather than differentiating home and road wins.

Argh, got distracted and off topic again.

K-Mack,

The highlighted quote simply doesn't make sense. If teams "do play better at home", it seems to me it makes it a lot harder to beat them at their place, making road wins more valuable? I get that you have a different personal preference and I don't want to belabor the point but your statement struck me as incongruous.

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2598 on: November 07, 2012, 01:13:31 pm »
At the D3 level, I don't think home or away means much.   It's not like you're playing in front of 100,000 people and can't hear the play calls like bigtime D1.   

Sure, it's nice to be at home, but unless it's crazy long travel or playing in weather conditions different than at home, it doesn't mean much to me.

True, but that is balanced by infrequent overnight travel for many D-III teams, and in games when a team flies, I think it becomes a bigger deal.

I'm saying I don't value the data much. Teams do play better at home, but I don't think a win should be "worth" more based on where it took place. I have some of my own biases from being a player -- the fewer distractions thing being one, me personally enjoying travel and seeing new places and having time on the bus to focus on the tasks at hand, and enjoying the challenge of playing in front of another team's fans, who were occasionally hostile.

It's more of the former though. For the purposes of putting a team into the playoffs, I prefer something like quarters led or points in h2h games among tied teams (though that can be screwy) rather than differentiating home and road wins.

Argh, got distracted and off topic again.

K-Mack,

The highlighted quote simply doesn't make sense. If teams "do play better at home", it seems to me it makes it a lot harder to beat them at their place, making road wins more valuable? I get that you have a different personal preference and I don't want to belabor the point but your statement struck me as incongruous.

One win is worth one win no matter where it takes place. It's really not a difficult concept. It's harder to score a touchdown from 60 yards out than 1 yard out, but either way it's worth six points.
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2599 on: November 07, 2012, 01:22:08 pm »
Ok. So it's just your personal opinion. I realized it's not a hard concept, I graduated from school too.  We can agree to disagree.

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2600 on: November 07, 2012, 01:27:29 pm »
I think road wins vs. regionally ranked opponents should count double.    ;D
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2601 on: November 07, 2012, 02:52:49 pm »
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2602 on: November 07, 2012, 07:02:39 pm »
Ok. So it's just your personal opinion. I realized it's not a hard concept, I graduated from school too.  We can agree to disagree.

Yes, lets.

I'm not saying road trips and field conditions never matter, but I think their effect is sometimes overblown, especially with regard to D-III football. I never missed a tackle on the road that I would have made at home, I don't think. Once the game starts, it's often the same. I tuned crowds out during the action a lot too because my mind was so into the game.

It is just an opinion. I don't mind if other people disagree. Pat's a big road team +3 guy.
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2603 on: November 09, 2012, 11:36:12 pm »
I think road wins vs. regionally ranked opponents should count double.    ;D

I'll take that as well!
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2604 on: November 10, 2012, 09:29:37 am »
Ok. So it's just your personal opinion. I realized it's not a hard concept, I graduated from school too.  We can agree to disagree.

Yes, lets.

I'm not saying road trips and field conditions never matter, but I think their effect is sometimes overblown, especially with regard to D-III football. I never missed a tackle on the road that I would have made at home, I don't think. Once the game starts, it's often the same. I tuned crowds out during the action a lot too because my mind was so into the game.

It is just an opinion. I don't mind if other people disagree. Pat's a big road team +3 guy.

This would be a fairly easy thing to get stats on.  Download the results database for the last five years and compute the average MOV for the home team.   As an enhancement, compute the distance between teams and see if there is a further correlation between distance traveled and MOV.

I've seen way too many bizarre results in the SCAC over the years to say there's no homefield advantage, but until this year the travel distances in the conference were very unusual for D3.   I could lean more towards Keith's POV for your typical hour or two down the road trip. 

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2605 on: November 11, 2012, 03:37:05 pm »
I think road wins vs. regionally ranked opponents should count double.    ;D

I'll take that as well!

Appreciate all the insight on this. You guys have put a smile on my face at least.
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2606 on: November 11, 2012, 03:43:11 pm »
Selection Sunday maybe not the best time to discuss this ... but going to start a running brainstorm of things that should be included in the Year in Review. Totally not complete yet, and if you are one of the fans who follows what's happening outside your own team (aka the awesome D3 fans who actually check this particular thread), please quote and add to it. I will use it later as a starting point for the annual (most years) column.

Definite:
Sam Durley 736 passing yards
Baldwin-Wallace suspension
SRSU vs. TLU (and all the scoring in ASC)
Craziest Pool C ever
Bethel-Concordia ending

Maybe:
Dutchman's Shoes & Cortaca Jug endings

I'm sure there's a gabillion more things but just trying to get it started (Hammer, uh-oh uh-oh)
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2607 on: November 11, 2012, 04:09:51 pm »
Selection Sunday maybe not the best time to discuss this ... but going to start a running brainstorm of things that should be included in the Year in Review. Totally not complete yet, and if you are one of the fans who follows what's happening outside your own team (aka the awesome D3 fans who actually check this particular thread), please quote and add to it. I will use it later as a starting point for the annual (most years) column.

Definite:
Sam Durley 736 passing yards
Baldwin-Wallace suspension
SRSU vs. TLU (and all the scoring in ASC)
Craziest Pool C ever
Bethel-Concordia ending

Maybe:
Dutchman's Shoes & Cortaca Jug endings

I'm sure there's a gabillion more things but just trying to get it started (Hammer, uh-oh uh-oh)
I think UWW going 7-3 after 3 straight titles and 7 Stagg Bowls in a row has to be in there somewhere
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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2608 on: November 11, 2012, 05:09:38 pm »
I think you could gather a list of single plays that shaped the playoff hopes of this crazy pool C year. We don't know yet but the end of the Bethel/Concordia-M game may be one example. Another could be some play/game in the NCAC that resulted in the wackiest tiebreaker ever. In the CCIW, you have  a handful of plays that could have changed Elmhursts (and wheaton, NCC's) season's. Millikin fumbling at the one in OT to give Elmhurst the win vs a loss, Wheaton giving up a 4th and 9 v Albion that was the game winning TD, Elmhurst stopping Wheaton on 4th and 1 at the 2 yd line to preserve a win, NCC kicking it deep vs an onsides to preserve the pt spread tie break, IWU losing their starting QB with 29 seconds left in what may have been a game winning drive vs Wheaton (they didn't win again)......I am sure many other conferences have 1 play that turned the tide for the season.

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Re: Around the Nation board
« Reply #2609 on: November 11, 2012, 05:31:57 pm »
- What appeared to be a deep Pool B cannibalizing itself and how that happened.
- Most unlikely Pool A teams (not really that original)
- All the Gagliardi drama, is this or isn't this his last season, should he retire, etc.
- Team with high expectations most undone by injuries (e.g. IWU), team that overcame the most injuries to keep competing (e.g. UST, et al.) including the details of who got hurt, how and for how long
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 11:06:19 pm by hazzben »
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