Author Topic: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference  (Read 6545520 times)

Offline ADL70

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56670 on: September 26, 2018, 10:34:53 am »
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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56671 on: September 26, 2018, 01:27:05 pm »
Big Announcement:

Defiance

I understand that it's difficult to find opponents for the opener.  It is what it is from Mount's perspective.  But what the heck is the upside of that for Defiance?  The only thing I'll note is that the AD at Defiance is a Mount grad so maybe that had something to do with it.

Is it so difficult? Mount Union has to be the only non-NESCAC team to have its schedule filled out through 2023.
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Offline Kira & Jaxon's Dad

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56672 on: September 26, 2018, 01:49:15 pm »
Big Announcement:

Defiance

I understand that it's difficult to find opponents for the opener.  It is what it is from Mount's perspective.  But what the heck is the upside of that for Defiance?  The only thing I'll note is that the AD at Defiance is a Mount grad so maybe that had something to do with it.

Is it so difficult? Mount Union has to be the only non-NESCAC team to have its schedule filled out through 2023.

Maybe he meant "It is difficult to find QUALITY opponents for the opener"?

Whitewater proved it was advantageous to schedule them.  But for most teams it is almost a guaranteed loss (not trying to sound boastful, just truthful).  Then they pretty much have to win their Conference and/or go undefeated the rest of the way to make the playoffs.

Or they can schedule an up and comer team that wants the challenge, but may not realistically have playoff potential that year.
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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56673 on: September 26, 2018, 01:52:32 pm »
Maybe he meant "It is difficult to find QUALITY opponents for the opener"?

Could be. Westminster is a really nice opponent for 2020 and 2021. But there probably isn't a need to schedule 2022 and 2023 right now.
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Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56674 on: September 26, 2018, 02:25:59 pm »
Maybe he meant "It is difficult to find QUALITY opponents for the opener"?

Could be. Westminster is a really nice opponent for 2020 and 2021. But there probably isn't a need to schedule 2022 and 2023 right now.

Yes, I meant good opponents like the WIAC schools were in the past.  I thought RHIT was a pretty good get for a couple years.  Westminster is even better.  Defiance just didn't make sense to me I guess.  Why the rush to lock in a home and home with someone like that?


Offline bluestreak66

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56675 on: September 26, 2018, 03:15:12 pm »
Maybe he meant "It is difficult to find QUALITY opponents for the opener"?

Could be. Westminster is a really nice opponent for 2020 and 2021. But there probably isn't a need to schedule 2022 and 2023 right now.

Yes, I meant good opponents like the WIAC schools were in the past.  I thought RHIT was a pretty good get for a couple years.  Westminster is even better.  Defiance just didn't make sense to me I guess.  Why the rush to lock in a home and home with someone like that?

Especially since there are so many teams that are geographically within a reasonable radius around Mount
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Offline Onward on, John Carroll

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56676 on: September 26, 2018, 03:54:04 pm »

Dr. Acula

Thanks. Didn't mean any offense to anyone, just didn't understand it. Now I'm enlightened. At my age I need all of help I can get. Go Raiders!  ☠🏈

I do not remember him. When was he active? Of course, I was around for the early years of the boards (but never posted) and didn't really starting creeping around again until 7-8 years ago.

Offline Onward on, John Carroll

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56677 on: September 26, 2018, 03:56:42 pm »
As much as I'd like to see that kind of game as a fan, it does Mount no good to play someone of similar talent level.

I have to agree . . .sadly.  There is just no room for error.  When JCU scheduled Oshkosh, I was livid.  I did not understand scheduling a possible loss when you have a team in your conference (Mount) who had beat you for the last 25 years without exception.    Now, I wish the system was different and there was more ability to get an at-large (or that there were less auto bids for the lesser conferences) which would allow for a two loss program to be considered but that is not the current situation.  Mount can afford to take a flyer based upon their dominance of the league for nearly 30 years.  I do not think the rest of the OAC can do that. 

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56678 on: September 26, 2018, 04:09:40 pm »
As much as I'd like to see that kind of game as a fan, it does Mount no good to play someone of similar talent level.

I have to agree . . .sadly.  There is just no room for error.  When JCU scheduled Oshkosh, I was livid.  I did not understand scheduling a possible loss when you have a team in your conference (Mount) who had beat you for the last 25 years without exception.    Now, I wish the system was different and there was more ability to get an at-large (or that there were less auto bids for the lesser conferences) which would allow for a two loss program to be considered but that is not the current situation.  Mount can afford to take a flyer based upon their dominance of the league for nearly 30 years.  I do not think the rest of the OAC can do that.

There certainly has been room for 2-loss teams to receive tournament invitations through Pool C, but you just never ever know how your team, even with two losses to the upper crust of the division, will fare.  The regional rankings from the North region last year very strongly preferred win percentage over any other criteria- something that I think made their rankings look lazy.  And I don't like to levy that criticism because I know the people on the regional committees put in time and effort to be fair.  But you can never predict how those groups of people are going to weigh the various criteria and the makeups of those committees change year over year.  It's an impossible moving target to hit. 
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Offline s e 76

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56679 on: September 27, 2018, 02:47:34 pm »
maybe mounts ad wants things settled well in advance for his replacement

Offline Onward on, John Carroll

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56680 on: September 27, 2018, 03:26:46 pm »
As much as I'd like to see that kind of game as a fan, it does Mount no good to play someone of similar talent level.

I have to agree . . .sadly.  There is just no room for error.  When JCU scheduled Oshkosh, I was livid.  I did not understand scheduling a possible loss when you have a team in your conference (Mount) who had beat you for the last 25 years without exception.    Now, I wish the system was different and there was more ability to get an at-large (or that there were less auto bids for the lesser conferences) which would allow for a two loss program to be considered but that is not the current situation.  Mount can afford to take a flyer based upon their dominance of the league for nearly 30 years.  I do not think the rest of the OAC can do that.

There certainly has been room for 2-loss teams to receive tournament invitations through Pool C, but you just never ever know how your team, even with two losses to the upper crust of the division, will fare.  The regional rankings from the North region last year very strongly preferred win percentage over any other criteria- something that I think made their rankings look lazy.  And I don't like to levy that criticism because I know the people on the regional committees put in time and effort to be fair.  But you can never predict how those groups of people are going to weigh the various criteria and the makeups of those committees change year over year.  It's an impossible moving target to hit.

Fair points.  However, while theoretically possible, I just do not see the criteria being place if you (1) lose to your conference champ (a regionally ranked opponent, presumably) and (2) lose to a strong out of conference team (again, if you have a quality team which loses, presumably a conference champ and/or a regionally ranked opponent), to allow an at-large berth.  Where will the other quality wins come from in this scenario?  As you said, it an impossible moving target.

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56681 on: September 27, 2018, 03:39:39 pm »
As much as I'd like to see that kind of game as a fan, it does Mount no good to play someone of similar talent level.

I have to agree . . .sadly.  There is just no room for error.  When JCU scheduled Oshkosh, I was livid.  I did not understand scheduling a possible loss when you have a team in your conference (Mount) who had beat you for the last 25 years without exception.    Now, I wish the system was different and there was more ability to get an at-large (or that there were less auto bids for the lesser conferences) which would allow for a two loss program to be considered but that is not the current situation.  Mount can afford to take a flyer based upon their dominance of the league for nearly 30 years.  I do not think the rest of the OAC can do that.

There certainly has been room for 2-loss teams to receive tournament invitations through Pool C, but you just never ever know how your team, even with two losses to the upper crust of the division, will fare.  The regional rankings from the North region last year very strongly preferred win percentage over any other criteria- something that I think made their rankings look lazy.  And I don't like to levy that criticism because I know the people on the regional committees put in time and effort to be fair.  But you can never predict how those groups of people are going to weigh the various criteria and the makeups of those committees change year over year.  It's an impossible moving target to hit.

Fair points.  However, while theoretically possible, I just do not see the criteria being place if you (1) lose to your conference champ (a regionally ranked opponent, presumably) and (2) lose to a strong out of conference team (again, if you have a quality team which loses, presumably a conference champ and/or a regionally ranked opponent), to allow an at-large berth.  Where will the other quality wins come from in this scenario?  As you said, it an impossible moving target.

You don't have to go that far back to find a really applicable scenario.  In 2015, Ohio Northern lost by 7,000 to Mount Union, also lost to Baldwin-Wallace and got invited to the tournament despite two losses.  They did have a ranked win over JCU that year and benefited from a North region that took a lot of extra losses, making them the top ranked at-large team in the region.  So the scenario laid out perfectly for them, but the path is there, given the right results around the region and the right group of people on the regional committee.   But still, it's unpredictable.  You can't know 2 or 4 years out if the game you schedule for OOC play is going to help or hurt. 
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Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56682 on: September 27, 2018, 04:42:27 pm »
This much I believe we do know.  A OOC win over a crappy team is better than a OOC loss to good team, even the elite upper crust.   The OAC's 2nd place team gets their Mount loss overlooked because it's to Mount.  The safest path to the playoffs in the OAC if you're not Mount is to play someone average in Week 1 and go 8-1 in conference, hopefully with a competitive loss to Mount though that's not required.   A 9-1 OAC runner-up is a strong at-large candidate.  An 8-2 OAC runner-up with is on thin ice, especially with Pool A being down to only 5 spots.

In my mind where scheduling up in the OCC makes sense is when you're the big fish in a crappy conference that hasn't been capable of competing on the national stage.   Someone like Franklin used to be in the HCAC.  They were going to steam roll their conference foes regardless of what happened OCC and needed the OCC games to prepare them for the playoffs, not build their resume to get in.
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Offline emma17

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56683 on: September 27, 2018, 07:16:22 pm »
Agree entirely w HS about safest path. Unfortunately for us fans, it leads to a much less exciting path. Maybe the committee could introduce a sort of mulligan game.

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: FB: Ohio Athletic Conference
« Reply #56684 on: September 27, 2018, 08:42:46 pm »
Ruth and Moxie are both absent from this week’s 2 deep.  Hope it’s nothing serious for either.  Did note something interesting though...the return of Ernie Burkes!  They moved him to WR and he transferred to one of the PA schools to try to play QB (Westminster?).  Well, he’s listed as a backup WR this week.  Welcome back, Ernie.