Author Topic: Future of Division III  (Read 578275 times)

Offline Ralph Turner

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 28244
  • Karma: +1774/-380
  • Hall of Famer
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2490 on: February 13, 2019, 11:37:41 am »
DIII Championships Committee supports regional realignment

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-supports-
regional-realignment

Besides aligning schools to reflect growth and changes in participation, this proposal could also increase the number of regions in some sports, reducing the number of schools in a region:

Quote
The new model seeks to have roughly 40 teams in each region. Sports that have 40-149 sponsors would have two regions; sports sponsored by 150-374 schools would have five to eight regions; and sports with 375 or more sponsors would have nine to 10 regions. In tennis, additional review will take place to determine the appropriate number of regions given that selections for the individual portion of the tournament are dependent on the alignment.

In most instances, the total number of regions in each sport would increase by two, three or four. The changes will require that some national committees expand to account for new regional representatives on those committees. Also, some conferences would be moved from their current regions.
My goodness, maybe 6 regions for footbal for ~ 250 schools? 9 or 10 for baseball, with more 390 schools playing baseball?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 11:47:10 am by Ralph Turner »

Offline Caz Bombers

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +96/-23
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2491 on: February 13, 2019, 11:53:12 am »
let's start with more than 2 regions for men's lacrosse and work up from there

Offline Ron Boerger

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 7054
  • Karma: +649/-141
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2492 on: February 13, 2019, 12:29:24 pm »
let's start with more than 2 regions for men's lacrosse and work up from there

The link was broken; if you'd been able to read the article, you would have seen this:

Quote
The Championships Committee approved some requests for regional realignment that will go into effect early. Menís lacrosse realignment (expanding from two regions to five) and womenís lacrosse realignment (expanding from five regions to seven) will be effective in the coming academic year. And womenís golf will maintain its current five regions, but will shift conferences within those regions to ensure they are better balanced.

Offline Caz Bombers

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +96/-23
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2493 on: February 13, 2019, 01:02:22 pm »
let's start with more than 2 regions for men's lacrosse and work up from there

The link was broken; if you'd been able to read the article, you would have seen this:

Quote
The Championships Committee approved some requests for regional realignment that will go into effect early. Menís lacrosse realignment (expanding from two regions to five) and womenís lacrosse realignment (expanding from five regions to seven) will be effective in the coming academic year. And womenís golf will maintain its current five regions, but will shift conferences within those regions to ensure they are better balanced.

well that is good news then. And then dividing up football a little more as others have stated would also be a good idea.

Offline justafan12

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: +18/-6
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2494 on: February 13, 2019, 01:06:21 pm »
Cut out all "regions" and pick the best teams!! 

Yes, I know that will never happen but that's the way it should be, IMO.

Offline Ralph Turner

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 28244
  • Karma: +1774/-380
  • Hall of Famer
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2495 on: February 13, 2019, 02:02:26 pm »
Cut out all "regions" and pick the best teams!! 

Yes, I know that will never happen but that's the way it should be, IMO.
Respectfully, the regions are a way for the NCAA to decide who the best teams.

They are actually trying to allocate the work load of who the best teams are when very few people know all 250 football teams or 410 basketball teams or 390 baseball teams.

Please follow the Pool C discussions. The ardent fans in the sport can get down to the last 8 - 10 teams who might be on the table when the last 2-3 picks for Pool C are made.  There is only squabbling about the last 2-3 teams being considered.

Most of us are very confident that rarely has a team who could have won the National Championship been left off the table. The closest instance that I can recall is UT-Tyler (arguably the last Pool C bid in 2018) winning the national championship in baseball.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 9389
  • Karma: +670/-395
  • Broadcaster, Announcer, Analyst, and Fan!
    • View Profile
    • Hoopsville
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2496 on: February 13, 2019, 03:29:43 pm »
Yeah ... regions exist even in DI, by the way.

Men's Lacrosse will move to five regions as soon as next academic year.

Football will be moving to six regions from what I am told.

I like this plan. I think it makes a lot of sense and puts a benchmark in place for growing (or even shrinking) sports.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Offline Gray Fox

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3767
  • Karma: +1713/-331
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2497 on: February 13, 2019, 08:40:58 pm »
Cut out all "regions" and pick the best teams!! 

Yes, I know that will never happen but that's the way it should be, IMO.
All teams get a chance at the playoffs in D3.
We know some leagues are much stronger.
Donít pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, heíll just kill you.

Offline Oline89

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 328
  • Karma: +43/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2498 on: February 14, 2019, 08:03:45 am »
Am I correct that the main reason to add more regions is to allow more regional committees to specialize in fewer teams, to ascertain appropriate regional rankings?  This would, in theory, allow for more accurate ranking of teams.  All of this, so the pool C teams (for football in 2019 there will be 5) selections will be more fair?

Offline sunny

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 307
  • Karma: +63/-8
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2499 on: February 14, 2019, 08:56:34 am »
Am I correct that the main reason to add more regions is to allow more regional committees to specialize in fewer teams, to ascertain appropriate regional rankings?  This would, in theory, allow for more accurate ranking of teams.  All of this, so the pool C teams (for football in 2019 there will be 5) selections will be more fair?

The other issue is that the number of teams ranked in a region is tied to the number of teams in the region. So if one conference in a large region is especially strong, there is a self-propagating system that results where four, five, six, even seven teams from the same conference get regionally ranked which automatically increases those teams' resumes, which in turn improves their regional rankings, etc.

The other reason having a lot of teams ranked in the same region is problematic is that there is no difference in criteria between playing all "top seven" regionally-ranked teams and all "second seven" regionally-ranked teams, for example. Yes, that difference is probably going to manifest among other criteria (SOS, for example) but in terms of "record v. regionally ranked opponents," there is no distinction.

Finally, the two regions in men's lacrosse have been especially egregious. While it's true that in a new alignment that some regions will be clearly much shallower than others, it's rather unreasonable to expect one of the best teams from the midwest in men's lacrosse to fill up their non-conference schedules with teams on the east coast in order to have games against regionally-ranked teams when there are likely two to three other entire conferences near them that don't require an overnight trip in order to play games. Unless you are TRULY geographically isolated (Colorado College) in your sport, you should be able to play games against regionally-ranked teams without having to incur crazy travel expenses or beg teams to do the same in order to come play you.

And that is sort of the point of regions in the first place. Ensuring that you have the chance to play "good teams" that will help your resume without being required to spend a lot of money to do so (again, unless you are truly geographically isolated).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:00:11 am by sunny »

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 11624
  • Karma: +618/-341
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2500 on: February 15, 2019, 08:34:27 am »

To be clear, the criteria is "results vs regionally ranked opponents."  The committees can and do look at who those are - they can judge that a close loss to a #1 team is better than a close win over a #9, for example.  They can see someone who's played all top ranked teams and another who's played lower ranked opponents.  The "results" part of the criteria is broad and used extensively.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Offline justafan12

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: +18/-6
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2501 on: February 15, 2019, 01:16:08 pm »
My reply to simply picking the best teams comes from a softball background in D3.  No real knowledge from other sports.

With a regional based approach, how does a #6 team in a West region compare to a #3 team in the Midwest region?  My best example is Linfield in 2017 was 32-10 and did not make the NCAA field.  With their region (West) being only 4 conferences and 34 teams do you give that region 6 or 7 teams out of a field of 62 vs. the Northeast or New England region with 61 teams each?  NCAA said no but I personally think Linfield would have beat most of the at large teams that were selected.

Also, with a regional approach, you could have 2 or 3 very good teams playing each other in a regional while other average teams could all be grouped in regional.   My best evidence of this is that from 2010 - 2017 the D3 softball WS had 17 run rule (or mercy rule) games.  That is a lot of one sided games for an event that is supposed to be reflective of the best.  If you draw up a bracket correctly, with a ranking of teams, I highly doubt that would happen. 

But I guess the big question is how do you compare almost 400 teams from across the US?  Currently, as I understand it, the NCAA softball committee conducts 2 conference calls to determine teams and regionals.  One call is one week prior to the selection and another on the day of selection.  That is not much time to evaluate and make an accurate selection.  Why not use the services of the NFCA who does a weekly poll? It may not be the most accurate but it is a tool that can be used.  As I understand it the NCAA gives no validity to the NFCA poll.

I am sure all other sports have some organization that ranks teams.  Why not use their services again as a tool to help get the best teams.  I just think that a National Championship should not be based on someone's zip code.



Offline Caz Bombers

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +96/-23
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2502 on: February 15, 2019, 05:12:45 pm »
the NFCA poll, at all levels but especially in D3, should be thrown in a lake. It's only 8 voting coaches who clearly don't keep up with what's going on (nor should they be expected to, frankly, given their jobs) who just pick teams they've heard of or who their friends coach.

Offline Bishopleftiesdad

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1956
  • Karma: +134/-19
  • Battling Bishops
    • View Profile
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2503 on: February 15, 2019, 06:53:26 pm »
D3 is about access. With so many schools with different missions. You want to raise the Spectre of another D3 split, and a new D4, then just start selecting based on the eye test.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 9389
  • Karma: +670/-395
  • Broadcaster, Announcer, Analyst, and Fan!
    • View Profile
    • Hoopsville
Re: Future of Division III
« Reply #2504 on: Yesterday at 05:09:48 pm »


It is now or never.

The last week of the Division III basketball regular season is here. Conferences will decide who will earn automatic bids to the NCAA Tournaments and teams try and position themselves for at-large bids, hosting opportunities, and bracketing considerations.

For teams who have been faltering, this is the last chance to right the ship. For programs which have underachieved, this is the last opportunity to live up to expectations. And of course for those with Cinderella dreams, this is the chance to try on the glass slipper.

Sunday's Hoopsville will cover it all in a special, extended, episode which for the first time (outside of Marathon programming) will feature a guest from each of the eight regions. We will also discuss which teams may be on the bubble, who has most likely secured at-large bid, and which teams need to win the AQs. Plus, we talk about how regions as we know it now could very well change in the future.

Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's show will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET. It can be watched live right here: http://bit.ly/2EeG5ZE (and simulcast on Facebook Live and Periscope).

If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.

Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Katherine Bixby, Johns Hopkins women's coach
- Jonathan Crosthwaite, Occidental men's junior
- Marc Brown, NJCU men's coach
- Justin LeBlanc, Millsaps women's coach
- Jamie Seward, SUNY New Paltz women's coach
- Marcos Echevarria, No. 17 Nichols men's senior
- Herman Carmichael, La Roche men's coach
- Klay Knueppel, Wisconsin Luthern women's coach
- Brad Bankston, ODAC Commissioner
- Pat Coleman & Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com (Bubble Talk)

If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville




Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.