Author Topic: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 2332878 times)

Offline formerd3db

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24795 on: February 17, 2012, 10:13:04 am »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24796 on: February 17, 2012, 10:14:02 am »
Hey newcardfan!  Wouldn't that be great? - if only! :D :)
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24797 on: February 17, 2012, 01:43:32 pm »
Hey newcardfan!  Wouldn't that be great? - if only! :D :)

Hey Former-glad to see you back posting! :D  And LIFE would be great--if only :) 8-)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 03:32:13 pm by newcardfan »
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24798 on: February 17, 2012, 01:47:26 pm »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).

This is a great post, but IMHO if we are going to have a national championship with only 32 entries-then the teams allowed in should be the top 32. Of course, I guess we can never please everyone, yet I have a hard time with a conference getting an AQ whose champion can't beat the last place team in another conference. We can agree to disagree on this point as we seem to go round and round this issue on the boards every season.
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24799 on: February 17, 2012, 04:44:32 pm »
Thanks newcardfan - it is great to be back!  I'm having to catch up on all the news I missed.  And BTW, you present the other side of that arguement very well.
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24800 on: February 17, 2012, 06:38:56 pm »
Thanks newcardfan - it is great to be back!  I'm having to catch up on all the news I missed.  And BTW, you present the other side of that arguement very well.
   Haven't missed a whole lot with this being the off season but with spring ball just around the corner and recruits making decisions, the boards should heat up soon.
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Offline matblake

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24801 on: February 18, 2012, 02:47:38 pm »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).

This is a great post, but IMHO if we are going to have a national championship with only 32 entries-then the teams allowed in should be the top 32. Of course, I guess we can never please everyone, yet I have a hard time with a conference getting an AQ whose champion can't beat the last place team in another conference. We can agree to disagree on this point as we seem to go round and round this issue on the boards every season.

I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24802 on: February 18, 2012, 04:20:15 pm »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).

This is a great post, but IMHO if we are going to have a national championship with only 32 entries-then the teams allowed in should be the top 32. Of course, I guess we can never please everyone, yet I have a hard time with a conference getting an AQ whose champion can't beat the last place team in another conference. We can agree to disagree on this point as we seem to go round and round this issue on the boards every season.

I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.
You're right and we can go round and round on this subject forever.  ::)
On a brighter note, the Cardinals have announced the captains for the 2012 season. Congrats to Nick Kukoc, Joey Michals, Jordan Tassio, Alex Pirela, Joe Guenther and Shane Dierking. Bring home that 7th conference championsip!
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24803 on: February 18, 2012, 04:38:12 pm »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).

This is a great post, but IMHO if we are going to have a national championship with only 32 entries-then the teams allowed in should be the top 32. Of course, I guess we can never please everyone, yet I have a hard time with a conference getting an AQ whose champion can't beat the last place team in another conference. We can agree to disagree on this point as we seem to go round and round this issue on the boards every season.

I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.

The schools from the weaker conferences pay their dues to the NCAA, just like the schools from the stronger conferences. And the NCAA has always put its emphasis upon equal access to post-season competition. It's not just D3 that operates that way. Next month is March Madness, in which everyone and his grandmother will fill out a few dozen tourney brackets and pay close attention to how they're doing in the D1 basketball tournament. Do you really think that the teams that you see in the brackets whose names you don't recognize -- teams like Texas-San Antonio, Long Island, Morehead State, and Hampton -- are among the 65 best basketball teams in Division One? They're in March Madness because the NCAA, on the D1 level as well as the D2 and D3 levels, puts equal access to national tournaments above all other concerns.

It's a central point of emphasis, and it isn't going to change. So there's no sense at all in grousing about, say, the UMAC or the NAthC getting a team into the D3 football tourney when the CCIW or the OAC or the WIAC really deserves a shot at an extra at-large slot.
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24804 on: February 18, 2012, 05:26:29 pm »
http://www.d3football.com/notables/2012/02/nefc-splits

Interesting article on d3football.com.  Unfortunately, It appears that Pool C will be shrinking by one slot to accomodate the new conference.  Looks like the two conferences will provide 7 and 8 seeds year in and year out while a strong WIAC, OAC, or CCIW team stays home!!!
I saw that also. I don't think that is a good thing, unless you expand the # of play-off teams by eight and give the #1 seed in each region a fisrt round bye.

From a strict football standpoint, I think it varies from year to year as conferences as a whole typically have up and down periods.  From an NCAA D3 perspective, this is what D3 is about, giving everyone access to a championship.  While the "power" conferences might not like it, the system is set up where everyone has a shot at the playoffs.  If you want in, win the conference and get the pool A slot. You can't fault conferences from using the rules to their advantage.

Good post. While I realize there are some of our colleagues here who, in one sense, do not like the current arrangement in that some weaker conference teams get in by winning their league title and thus the AQ because people want to have the strongest teams in the playoffs.  Yet, I guess that kind of takes care of itself anyway as those teams are obviously weeded out as the playoffs progress each week.  The other side of the arguement, as you well point out, is that every school (except the independents, of course) have a shot at the playoffs, thereby providing a potential (albeit rare obviously) opporunity for some team to have a "cinderlla" venture through the playoffs and maybe, just maybe get lucky and win the entire thing.  Kind of like in the NCAA basketball tourneys now at all three levels where many of the various conferences have their conference tourneys at the end of the regular season and some team that is perhaps quite good, but missed the title by a game or so, has the chance to get in.  Of course, there are two sides/opinions as to that venue.  Anyway, for DIII football, despite some glitches at times as many have discussed, the current system works best (at least for now! ;)).

This is a great post, but IMHO if we are going to have a national championship with only 32 entries-then the teams allowed in should be the top 32. Of course, I guess we can never please everyone, yet I have a hard time with a conference getting an AQ whose champion can't beat the last place team in another conference. We can agree to disagree on this point as we seem to go round and round this issue on the boards every season.

I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.

The schools from the weaker conferences pay their dues to the NCAA, just like the schools from the stronger conferences. And the NCAA has always put its emphasis upon equal access to post-season competition. It's not just D3 that operates that way. Next month is March Madness, in which everyone and his grandmother will fill out a few dozen tourney brackets and pay close attention to how they're doing in the D1 basketball tournament. Do you really think that the teams that you see in the brackets whose names you don't recognize -- teams like Texas-San Antonio, Long Island, Morehead State, and Hampton -- are among the 65 best basketball teams in Division One? They're in March Madness because the NCAA, on the D1 level as well as the D2 and D3 levels, puts equal access to national tournaments above all other concerns.

It's a central point of emphasis, and it isn't going to change. So there's no sense at all in grousing about, say, the UMAC or the NAthC getting a team into the D3 football tourney when the CCIW or the OAC or the WIAC really deserves a shot at an extra at-large slot.
     we're all entitled to our opinions (not grousing) and no I don't think some of the teams in th D1 bball tournament belong there either.  The espn guys have been griping about that all season. Some of them want the tournament to go down to 24 or 32 of the BEST teams so we're not the only ones who think this way.
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Offline matblake

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24805 on: February 18, 2012, 11:36:38 pm »
It's a central point of emphasis, and it isn't going to change. So there's no sense at all in grousing about, say, the UMAC or the NAthC getting a team into the D3 football tourney when the CCIW or the OAC or the WIAC really deserves a shot at an extra at-large slot.

Sager, when has "sense" ever made any difference on these boards?  ;D 
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24806 on: February 19, 2012, 12:47:41 am »
It's a central point of emphasis, and it isn't going to change. So there's no sense at all in grousing about, say, the UMAC or the NAthC getting a team into the D3 football tourney when the CCIW or the OAC or the WIAC really deserves a shot at an extra at-large slot.

Sager, when has "sense" ever made any difference on these boards?  ;D
   If we all made sense,what would we have to argue about?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 12:50:48 am by newcardfan »
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Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24807 on: February 19, 2012, 08:37:05 am »
I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.

That's the membership, the bold part, not the leadership. The members voted for this process a decade ago and the powerful conferences had to go along with it for it to pass. It was an extraordinary show of camaraderie for them to do so. The leadership carries out what the membership voted for. It is definitely not how you described it.
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Offline matblake

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24808 on: February 19, 2012, 09:20:58 am »
I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.

That's the membership, the bold part, not the leadership. The members voted for this process a decade ago and the powerful conferences had to go along with it for it to pass. It was an extraordinary show of camaraderie for them to do so. The leadership carries out what the membership voted for. It is definitely not how you described it.

Thanks for the clarification Pat.  +k Shouldn't have assumed anything.  Now I don't have to learn anything else today as I have achieved my one new piece of information learned quota!  :D

Question, do we know if it had to be a simple majority, 2/3rds, unanimous to pass? 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 09:24:13 am by matblake »
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Offline NCF

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Re: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #24809 on: February 19, 2012, 09:41:52 am »
I don't disagree with you new, I would love for the playoffs to be the best 32 teams.  For decent teams in good conferences I'm sure it's infuriating.   Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't see it that way, and the membership of D3 submits to its "leadership."  Besides, my feeling is that most D3 presidents and boards think that the automatic qualifier gives the most students the best chance of post-season participation or are indifferent to how the NCAA handles it.  Unfortunately from a competition standpoint, everyone's access to the playoffs is a key component to the D3 post season concept.

That's the membership, the bold part, not the leadership. The members voted for this process a decade ago and the powerful conferences had to go along with it for it to pass. It was an extraordinary show of camaraderie for them to do so. The leadership carries out what the membership voted for. It is definitely not how you described it.

Thanks for the clarification Pat.  +k Shouldn't have assumed anything.  Now I don't have to learn anything else today as I have achieved my one new piece of information learned quota!  :D

Question, do we know if it had to be a simple majority, 2/3rds, unanimous to pass?
   so the powerful conferences went along with something they truly didn't believe in to get one thing they wanted. that's step one. time to stop rewarding mediocrity and punishing hard work for some silly "we're all the same" ideal. the power conferences need to work toward step two. And there we go again- talk about splitting the division into those who want to be truly competative and those who want to run a glorified (yet expensive) intramurall program. The two sides will always butt heads-yet it provides fuel for some great (yet heated) board discussions. Agree to disagree because I don't see consensus on this topic anytime in the near future.
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