Author Topic: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 5753528 times)

Offline Captainred81

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37125 on: October 22, 2019, 01:43:16 pm »
I watched the Wheaton - NCC game and thought that Wheaton looked exceptional.  In full disclosure I thought that NCC was going to win that game, obviously I was wrong.  If Wheaton and Mount end up facing each other in the Quarters or semis (depending on brackets) I think Wheaton will see an uptick in speed.  NCC has a good defense, but their team speed is not close to Mount's.  I think defensively, Wheaton seems to be very fast and physical which will most certainly keep them competitve in games against Mount, St. Johns UWW and UMHB.  Those will most definitely come down to the usual field position, turnovers and special teams. 
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Offline USee

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37126 on: October 22, 2019, 02:18:43 pm »
Doesn't every team in the final 4 see an uptick in speed? That's pretty much a given. Would be a fun game. I hope it happens. Lot's of games between now and then and Wheaton players realize I am sure that they dropped a couple games over the last 2 years that have kept them out of the playoffs.
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Offline hazzben

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37127 on: October 22, 2019, 06:57:19 pm »
Some big numbers from the Wheaton game:

Wheaton 688 yds, 2nd most is school history (1995 playoff vs Witt yielded 708)
415 yds rushing. TJW 12 rush for 160 and 2 TD, Will Smith 20 rush for 120
283 passing. LAnthony 12-17 252 yds 3 TD 1 int (first of the season)
7 sacks for Wh and 0 for WashU

WashU
205 total yds
159 passing. Johnny D 21-38 (55%) 159
46 yds rushing
WashU kept their first team O on the field late into the 4th when Wheaton was playing 3s and Johnny D got their only offensive TD. The other was a blocked punt late in the 4th

This Wheaton DLine is likely the best I have ever seen as a group in my 36 years watching Wheaton FB. Itís a special group that can carry this team far if they stay healthy. Luke Anthony is playing at a very high level for his first 5 games in the offense. TJ Williams is a D1 talent playing D3. The collection of talent all around this team is exceptional.

If your opinion of Wheaton is correct, and I have no reason to question it, then this could make for an interesting post season.  Of all the teams that I've seen Mount play over the years, my most respected opponent has been Wheaton.  They're always very fundamentally sound, well coached, plays hard without the crap after the whistle, and makes you work for everything.  UWW has historically overpowered you with brute strength at the line of scrimmage and MHB has so many athletes that not even their head coach can get in their way, but Wheaton is opponent that I've admired the most.  They remind me of many of the early LK teams where they win because of their execution coupled with really good talent, not simply because they're so much bigger/stronger/faster like MHB.

If this is the best Wheaton team then 2019 could be a special year come playoff time as the some of those past Wheaton teams that made it to Mount were quite close to breaking thru.

So of all the teams Mount has faced over the years, the one that you admire the most is one that's never beaten you  ;) I think UWW has been much more than just brute strength. Everything you've written about Wheaton is true of UWW. Same for the SJU teams you faced in 2000 and 2003. That's not to knock Wheaton, I agree with what you've written about them. But as one of my favorite MN sports radio guys likes to point out, it's always easier to talk about your opponent and "how hard they played, how tough they were, how disciplined, etc., etc." after you've beaten a team.  :)

Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37128 on: October 22, 2019, 08:22:20 pm »
Some big numbers from the Wheaton game:

Wheaton 688 yds, 2nd most is school history (1995 playoff vs Witt yielded 708)
415 yds rushing. TJW 12 rush for 160 and 2 TD, Will Smith 20 rush for 120
283 passing. LAnthony 12-17 252 yds 3 TD 1 int (first of the season)
7 sacks for Wh and 0 for WashU

WashU
205 total yds
159 passing. Johnny D 21-38 (55%) 159
46 yds rushing
WashU kept their first team O on the field late into the 4th when Wheaton was playing 3s and Johnny D got their only offensive TD. The other was a blocked punt late in the 4th

This Wheaton DLine is likely the best I have ever seen as a group in my 36 years watching Wheaton FB. Itís a special group that can carry this team far if they stay healthy. Luke Anthony is playing at a very high level for his first 5 games in the offense. TJ Williams is a D1 talent playing D3. The collection of talent all around this team is exceptional.

If your opinion of Wheaton is correct, and I have no reason to question it, then this could make for an interesting post season.  Of all the teams that I've seen Mount play over the years, my most respected opponent has been Wheaton.  They're always very fundamentally sound, well coached, plays hard without the crap after the whistle, and makes you work for everything.  UWW has historically overpowered you with brute strength at the line of scrimmage and MHB has so many athletes that not even their head coach can get in their way, but Wheaton is opponent that I've admired the most.  They remind me of many of the early LK teams where they win because of their execution coupled with really good talent, not simply because they're so much bigger/stronger/faster like MHB.

If this is the best Wheaton team then 2019 could be a special year come playoff time as the some of those past Wheaton teams that made it to Mount were quite close to breaking thru.

So of all the teams Mount has faced over the years, the one that you admire the most is one that's never beaten you  ;) I think UWW has been much more than just brute strength. Everything you've written about Wheaton is true of UWW. Same for the SJU teams you faced in 2000 and 2003. That's not to knock Wheaton, I agree with what you've written about them. But as one of my favorite MN sports radio guys likes to point out, it's always easier to talk about your opponent and "how hard they played, how tough they were, how disciplined, etc., etc." after you've beaten a team.  :)

You missed my point.  Or I explained it poorly.   I admire Wheaton of because how they play.  MHB is horribly coached, but supremely athletic.   UWW was well coached under Leipold, but otherwise wins because of better talent.  Back in the 90's when Mount started winning titles they did so without superior talent across the board, especially without great linemen.     Wheaton reminds me of those mid to late 90's Mount teams.  Very clean and precise.  Hence my reference to the early LK teams.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 08:24:25 pm by HScoach »
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Offline HScoach

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37129 on: October 22, 2019, 08:27:34 pm »
^  plus I'm probably conditioned to appreciate the coaching side of winning more than the recruiting side of it after being on the sideline of a public HS for years.  Never appreciated the ability of the catholic HS to win by recruiting better talent.

Which is why my best analogy of MHB is your typical large, urban HS with athletes coming out their ears.  They don't know how to line up, but it often doesn't matter because you can't catch them. 

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Offline hazzben

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37130 on: October 22, 2019, 08:42:09 pm »
Gotcha HSC ... and you are dead on regarding UMHB.

Offline izzy stradlin

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37131 on: October 23, 2019, 12:16:25 am »

It would be great to see Mike Swider take a team to the Stagg in the twilight of his career.

That's for sure.  Though I believe Swider is 64, he is as effective as a coach now as he has ever been. I wouldn't be surprised he becomes the Tom Brady of coaching longevity. 

Offline USee

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37132 on: October 23, 2019, 09:53:27 am »

It would be great to see Mike Swider take a team to the Stagg in the twilight of his career.

That's for sure.  Though I believe Swider is 64, he is as effective as a coach now as he has ever been. I wouldn't be surprised he becomes the Tom Brady of coaching longevity.

That would be reserved for John Gagliardi who retired at the age of 85 after 60 years of coaching. I don't think Swider has 20 more years in him, though I would love it.
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37133 on: October 23, 2019, 12:17:27 pm »

It would be great to see Mike Swider take a team to the Stagg in the twilight of his career.

That's for sure.  Though I believe Swider is 64, he is as effective as a coach now as he has ever been. I wouldn't be surprised he becomes the Tom Brady of coaching longevity.

That would be reserved for John Gagliardi who retired at the age of 85 after 60 years of coaching. I don't think Swider has 20 more years in him, though I would love it.

If you are confining this to Division III, that is true. Otherwise, I believe the longevity of all time belongs to Amos Alonzo Stagg! Although I suppose we could include him and put an asterisk by his name since he did co-coach a small college (later Division III) with his son near the end of his career! :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:19:40 pm by formerd3db »
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Offline USee

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37134 on: October 23, 2019, 01:01:49 pm »

It would be great to see Mike Swider take a team to the Stagg in the twilight of his career.

That's for sure.  Though I believe Swider is 64, he is as effective as a coach now as he has ever been. I wouldn't be surprised he becomes the Tom Brady of coaching longevity.

That would be reserved for John Gagliardi who retired at the age of 85 after 60 years of coaching. I don't think Swider has 20 more years in him, though I would love it.

If you are confining this to Division III, that is true. Otherwise, I believe the longevity of all time belongs to Amos Alonzo Stagg! Although I suppose we could include him and put an asterisk by his name since he did co-coach a small college (later Division III) with his son near the end of his career! :)

Nope. AA Stagg coached for 57 years and had a career record of 314-199-35 and Gags coached for 64 years with a career record of 489-138-11
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37135 on: October 23, 2019, 02:14:15 pm »

It would be great to see Mike Swider take a team to the Stagg in the twilight of his career.

That's for sure.  Though I believe Swider is 64, he is as effective as a coach now as he has ever been. I wouldn't be surprised he becomes the Tom Brady of coaching longevity.

That would be reserved for John Gagliardi who retired at the age of 85 after 60 years of coaching. I don't think Swider has 20 more years in him, though I would love it.

If you are confining this to Division III, that is true. Otherwise, I believe the longevity of all time belongs to Amos Alonzo Stagg! Although I suppose we could include him and put an asterisk by his name since he did co-coach a small college (later Division III) with his son near the end of his career! :)

Nope. AA Stagg coached for 57 years and had a career record of 314-199-35 and Gags coached for 64 years with a career record of 489-138-11

Actually, you are right in regards to the head coaching years, I miscalculated by one-Gagliardi beats Stagg by one year, 64 to 63.  It is controversial, however, Stagg actually was Co-Head Coach with his son for six years at Susquehanna College from 1947-1952.  The NCAA disputes that, however, his son and the College always said that was true.  Now, if we count years to include those as a college assistant in addition to head coaching years, Stagg beats Gagliardi.  So I acquiesce to your superb knowledge! :) +k, my friend. 
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Offline USee

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37136 on: October 23, 2019, 10:40:48 pm »
Well, Gagliardi actually was player coach at his high school as a senior and then coached high school football all 4 years in college at Colorado College before being named head coach at Carroll at age of 22 in Montana so that's 5 more for him
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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37137 on: October 25, 2019, 11:35:16 am »
Something to keep an eye on is the Pool C situation that is brewing for D3 this year. Adam Turer has an article on the front page that addresses it (as well as rankings) but North Central does not appear to be a lock for Pool C if they run the table (beating IWU in November).

Here are the current 1 loss Pool C teams based on SOS

1. Bethel - .691
2. Redlands - .651
3. Wesley - .648
4. UW-Platteville - .620
5. Susquehanna - .606
6. UW-Oshkosh - .605
7. Randolph-Macon - .584
8. Texas Lutheran - .573
9.  Baldwin Wallace - .548
10. Hardin Simmons - .534
11. North Central (Ill.) - .526
12. Linfield - .525 
13. Berry - .512

North Central obviously has the benefit of its only loss is to #5 Wheaton but 2 things are going to negatively affecting their ranking. 1-CNU is not very good this year 2-IWUís OT loss @UWL may well keep them from being ranked in the North which will limit NCCís record against Regionally Ranked Opponents (RRO) to 0-1. Whatís crazy is that, despite Adam Turer suggesting IWU is having an ďoff yearĒ, if they win that UWL game (by not fumbling in OT when in game winning FG position) they would be one of the higher ranked 1 loss teams.

If Pool C gets picked today itís probably Redlands, Wesley, Bethel and Susquehanna all going in the top 4 picks which leaves 1 pick left for potential 1 loss teams among: BW/JCU, NCC, UWP.

NCCís fate may well rest upon where the North RAC puts them in the regional rankings. Currently the OAC has JCU and BW as 1 loss teams and they play each other in week 11. Will a 1 loss NCC get ranked above a 1 loss OAC team (loss to Mt Union)? Thatís a tough call and how the North RAC ranks those teams may well determine what happens.

The caveat to all this is the likelihood that one or more of these teams drops a game over the next 4 weeks which makes much of this moot. CCIW fans should feel good about a 1 loss rep in the NCAAís in most years, but this year is shaping up to be a particularly competitive year for Pool C where 1 or more qualified teams dontí get a bid. 
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Offline wally_wabash

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37138 on: October 25, 2019, 11:48:18 am »
NCCís fate may well rest upon where the North RAC puts them in the regional rankings. Currently the OAC has JCU and BW as 1 loss teams and they play each other in week 11. Will a 1 loss NCC get ranked above a 1 loss OAC team (loss to Mt Union)? Thatís a tough call and how the North RAC ranks those teams may well determine what happens.

I would place North Central above this year's OAC runner up ten times out of ten, but the North RAC has been weird over the last two years.  The good news is that there are some new folks on that North RAC conference call this year, and maybe those rankings can return to something a bit more sensible. 
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Offline hazzben

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Re: FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #37139 on: October 25, 2019, 01:20:59 pm »
NCCís fate may well rest upon where the North RAC puts them in the regional rankings. Currently the OAC has JCU and BW as 1 loss teams and they play each other in week 11. Will a 1 loss NCC get ranked above a 1 loss OAC team (loss to Mt Union)? Thatís a tough call and how the North RAC ranks those teams may well determine what happens.

I would place North Central above this year's OAC runner up ten times out of ten, but the North RAC has been weird over the last two years.  The good news is that there are some new folks on that North RAC conference call this year, and maybe those rankings can return to something a bit more sensible.

Agree Wally, NCC is a playoff caliber team in every sense. But there's a lot of season left (e.g. Bethel v. UST could knock Bethel out all together).