Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 2751225 times)

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15360 on: December 31, 2018, 10:16:40 am »
where did Ostendarp come from?
Baltimore

Offline frank uible

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15361 on: December 31, 2018, 10:39:55 am »
Baltimore by way of Bucknell.

Offline frank uible

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15362 on: December 31, 2018, 10:43:09 am »
The winged helmet originated at Princeton with Fritz Crisler.

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15363 on: December 31, 2018, 11:01:30 am »
The winged helmet originated at Princeton with Fritz Crisler.

Who brought it to Michigan.  Dave Nelson brought it to Delaware, and Heinecken to Middlebury. 

Offline GoBlue61

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15364 on: December 31, 2018, 11:10:24 am »
Fritz Crisler brought the winged helmet to Michigan from Princeton in 1938.

Offline amh63

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15365 on: December 31, 2018, 04:22:11 pm »
Little late to this topic/conversation....if you are talking about HFC Miller of Trinity, he indeed came from Un of Delaware.  He was the all-American QB for the Hens.  He became the OC/QB coach for DARP at Amherst...then moved on to the HFC at Trinity.  Just clarifying the coaching route for Miller.  Miller’s HFC at UDelaware was a great offensive coach....developed the Wing T, I recall.

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15366 on: January 02, 2019, 07:14:12 am »
Little late to this topic/conversation....if you are talking about HFC Miller of Trinity, he indeed came from Un of Delaware.  He was the all-American QB for the Hens.  He became the OC/QB coach for DARP at Amherst...then moved on to the HFC at Trinity.  Just clarifying the coaching route for Miller.  Miller’s HFC at UDelaware was a great offensive coach....developed the Wing T, I recall.
Good memory, amh63:  Dave Nelson developed the Delaware Wing T and his successor, Tubby Raymond refined it. 

Offline ColbyFootball

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15367 on: January 02, 2019, 06:48:11 pm »
I just read of the passing of Coach Margraff of Johns Hopkins. I had the pleasure of speaking to him at many camps throughout the years and he was a really nice guy, and a true gentleman. He will be missed. We have lost one of the good guys. May he R.I.P.

https://hopkinssports.com/news/2019/1/2/johns-hopkins-mourns-the-passing-of-head-football-coach-jim-margraff.aspx?fbclid=IwAR1AknRGDXLtStv6sUUZCjZxvNBYwIkoE0LO0Q6TmSXgqotab_hjTdfrzpw

Offline gridiron

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15368 on: January 03, 2019, 12:54:07 pm »
I believe Bates was the first, or one of the first NESCAC school to use Atlanta based Parker for a national search in the hiring of Malik Hall who came from  Penn. Bates has used this firm for their AD hires in the past as well.

Recently, like recruiting, the hiring process has begun to expand beyond New England and the greater Northeast.
That being said, NESCAC experience is a key attribute for any hire in the league so the process has often stayed local.

It will be interesting who the Bowdoin search brings to Brunswick. Any NESCAC search will always prominently include 2 conferences in the northeast in addition to the NESCAC with strong academic reputations....the Ivies and Patriot league coaches have always been perceived as being a good fit in the NESCAC.

I agree that historically most schools have looked for NESCAC experience of some sort.  IMO looking outside would be beneficial for many reasons.  Ivy and Patriot make sense for sure but fresh blood in most environments can be a good thing.

Offline NED3Guy

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15369 on: January 03, 2019, 02:25:43 pm »
My following of the NESCAC does not date back very far, but the non-"NESCAC guy" head coaching hires that I can think of have not been very successful. Obviously a great deal of that has to do with where they got hired to work, but it's still worth noting:

Off the top of my head (and a little google work) and with little history prior to the early 2000's, I could only come up with a handful of guys who have been HC's in the league who had not either played in or coached in the league prior to their hiring:

Alvanos at Hamilton (throwing it back a ways with that one)
Murray at Hamilton
Kelton at Williams
Hall at Bates (verdict still out)
Raymond at Williams and Cosgrove at Colby- both guys might be breaking the trend.

I think every school other than Amherst has had their HC job open at least once since 2000. With Tufts (Civetti), Trinity (Devaney), Colby (Michaels), Wesleyan (Whalen and Dicenzo), Williams (Whalen) and Bodoin (JBW) all going with "NESCAC guys" in their hiring. Hamilton also tried their luck with a NESCAC coordinator when they hired Coen from Bowdoin between Alvanos and Murray. 

Not sure what point I'm trying to make with that history lesson, but it's interesting to look back at recent head coaching hires and see how internal the NESCAC hiring has been for almost two decades. I agree that new blood in most cases can be a good thing, but perhaps the NESCAC is so unique that there's a reason for so many hires with conference experience? I once heard a young assistant say that "you need to know the 'CAC to succeed in the 'CAC" ---- recent hiring patterns show that the AD's must feel the same way.

National search all you want and use an Atlanta based search firm to help you, but if I'm the Bowdoin AD I'm making calls to the OC and DC at Wesleyan, Trinity, Amherst and Tufts to see how they fee about a trip to Maine.

Offline amh63

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15370 on: January 03, 2019, 02:29:55 pm »
Several comments on Nescac related football topics.
First...good to look at Ivy coaching experience since both the Nescac and Ivy schools do not go to the post season in football and both have to strongly consider the academic factors wrt players...in Admission and during the season.
Watched a number of D1 football games in the post season....in particular Vandy 74’s Commodores and Former Williams Prez’s purple and white Northwestern’s team.  Two private Universities from powerhouse leagues...SEC and “BigTen”.   Amazing that such academic smaller universities now appear and winning in Bowl games.  Seems that both schools are competing for and winning the recruiting wars for talented players...even having transfers joining the fun :).

Offline gridiron

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15371 on: January 03, 2019, 04:01:24 pm »
NED3Guy, nice work coming up with the past coaching hires.  You make a good point that the obvious source for most ADs would be within the league.  Just hoping more can buck the trend (like Cosgrove, Raymond and hopefully Hall).

And to your point, Amh, agreed the NESCAC's "big brother" Ivies are always fertile ground as well.

While Ivies are well-known nationally, perhaps, as someone else on this board suggested, the NESCAC allure is just not as great outside of the northeast.

Online lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15372 on: January 03, 2019, 09:21:55 pm »
In hiring a NESCAC Head Coach the ADs, administrators, and admissions reps typically on search committees have been petrified to go outside the box and hire anyone who has not previously been indoctrinated to the philosophies of the NESCAC or the Ivies. I get that and agree, to a point.

The reality of basing hiring criteria entirely on football is a potential night mare for NESCAC admissions.  If they hire  a great football coach who knows how to win but doesn't understand the vetting process in the NESCAC it sets up a potential problem.

An assistant coach from Mt Union who is a great football guy could never navigate the admissions climate in Brunswick- this is why NESCAC schools have stayed in close regional proximity in past hires. They can't make a total commitment to FOOTBALL.

Trinity is the one and only program that gets close to that kind of commitment in the NESCAC.

At the end of the day maybe there was an issue with JBW who brought an Endicott and Trinity mindset to Bowdoin where they cherish the position of #8 rating in the US News tally- Endicott and Trinity are not in that neighborhood- maybe that was in play in Brunswick.

Would love to see Bowdoin break the trend here....lets see.


« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 09:54:12 pm by lumbercat »

Offline fb73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15373 on: January 03, 2019, 10:36:37 pm »
In hiring a NESCAC Head Coach the ADs, administrators, and admissions reps typically on search committees have been petrified to go outside the box and hire anyone who has not previously been indoctrinated to the philosophies of the NESCAC or the Ivies. I get that and agree, to a point.

The reality of basing hiring criteria entirely on football is a potential night mare for NESCAC admissions.  If they hire  a great football coach who knows how to win but doesn't understand the vetting process in the NESCAC it sets up a potential problem.

An assistant coach from Mt Union who is a great football guy could never navigate the admissions climate in Brunswick- this is why NESCAC schools have stayed in close regional proximity in past hires. They can't make a total commitment to FOOTBALL.

Trinity is the one and only program that gets close to that kind of commitment in the NESCAC.

At the end of the day maybe there was an issue with JBW who brought an Endicott and Trinity mindset to Bowdoin where they cherish the position of #8 rating in the US News tally- Endicott and Trinity are not in that neighborhood- maybe that was in play in Brunswick.

Would love to see Bowdoin break the trend here....lets see.


Your reference to the Mt Union assistant coach with regards to navigating the admissions process is an insult to every coach who doesn’t have ties to the NESCAC or Ivies. Also to think that Trinity is the only school that gets that of commitment is extremely naive on your part. You seem to have bought the kool aid that the NESCAC higher ups are selling. You would be shocked at what goes on behind the scenes, not only in football but many other sports.



Offline JEFFFAN

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15374 on: January 04, 2019, 10:11:00 am »
In hiring a NESCAC Head Coach the ADs, administrators, and admissions reps typically on search committees have been petrified to go outside the box and hire anyone who has not previously been indoctrinated to the philosophies of the NESCAC or the Ivies. I get that and agree, to a point.

The reality of basing hiring criteria entirely on football is a potential night mare for NESCAC admissions.  If they hire  a great football coach who knows how to win but doesn't understand the vetting process in the NESCAC it sets up a potential problem.

An assistant coach from Mt Union who is a great football guy could never navigate the admissions climate in Brunswick- this is why NESCAC schools have stayed in close regional proximity in past hires. They can't make a total commitment to FOOTBALL.

Trinity is the one and only program that gets close to that kind of commitment in the NESCAC.

At the end of the day maybe there was an issue with JBW who brought an Endicott and Trinity mindset to Bowdoin where they cherish the position of #8 rating in the US News tally- Endicott and Trinity are not in that neighborhood- maybe that was in play in Brunswick.

Would love to see Bowdoin break the trend here....lets see.

Thanks for this, lumbercat.   I am not sure that I understand your point about "Trinity being the one and only program that gets close …"   I would argue that Williams, Amherst, and a few of the other successful football programs make a 100% clear commitment to football WITHIN the confines of the NESCAC structure.   They focus intensely on what they can control - the NESCAC.   I don't think that Trinity is the only one who gets close - a lot of them do, within the box that is NESCAC football.   All kinds of arguments as to why Trinity wins more that are not worth getting into again, but it is not because they are closer to a national scope.

It is impossible to judge a program on a national scale - not sure you are doing that, just saying - when the national scope is not part of the equation.   In other sports - basketball, soccer, lacrosse - the national scope is 100% within the purview of these coaches.   They want to coach in the NESCAC to have a shot at a national championship.