Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3197570 times)

Offline JEFFFAN

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17205 on: October 02, 2020, 10:06:58 am »

If what is being reported about Hammer is true, I think it is brilliant on his part.   Bowdoin's abysmal, horrible track record means that either folks have not been trying very hard to recruit (unlikely) or they have tried hard with no success.   And the reality is that if a good northeast player is getting recruited by Bowdoin, Amherst, Trinity, or (name another NESCAC school), the likelihood of that kid going to Bowdoin is slim and none given their track record.   So try something else!

Offline nescac1

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17206 on: October 02, 2020, 11:52:42 am »
Agree with Jefffan.  Especially in football, which requires SO many good players to turn around a bad situation, there are three ways to improve dramatically: lower admissions standards for those particular athletes (which Bowdoin ain't doing, ever), employ a system different from everyone else, so you can utilize players who may be overlooked by programs with a better track record (as Harriman did, in my view, brilliantly at Bates, he didn't get enough credit), or recruit players wayyyy off the radar of other NESCAC schools.  Casting a wide net is probably the only chance Bowdoin has to pull out of the basement, now that there are really no poorly-run programs left in NESCAC to bypass naturally. 

Offline nescac1

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17207 on: October 02, 2020, 12:29:04 pm »
Perhaps a recruiting steal for Ephs, Cameron Smith, the brother (I assume) of sophomore starter Coleston Smith, picks the Ephs over multiple D1 offers (Penn, Bucknell, Dartmouth, Columbia):

https://twitter.com/cameronssmith45/status/1312036924824190977?s=21

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17208 on: October 02, 2020, 12:32:01 pm »
NESCAC 1 and Jeffman
I recognize the need to win but I don't think its fair to the recruits and will come back to bite him.

Offline nescac1

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17209 on: October 02, 2020, 01:31:37 pm »
Lumbercat, fairness, yeah, that is a different issue -- you may be right, I don't know enough about what is promised recruits and how firm those promises are. 

Offline JEFFFAN

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17210 on: October 03, 2020, 07:47:20 pm »

I completely agree with you, Lumbercat, if the circumstances are as you describe.   I am hard pressed to believe the extent of the offers for a small school like Bowdoin, but who knows?

Offline VoodooDoc

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17211 on: October 04, 2020, 12:53:36 pm »
Lumbercat

You are looking at the football world through a NESCAC lens.  Unlike the NESCAC which recruits in the fall, other Division 3 schools really start recruiting after the D1 recruiting season.  Any young man being recruited this fall by Bowdoin and doesn't go that way for whatever reason, has another good bite at the apple during the winter and the spring when the other Division 3 schools are recruiting.

Coach Hammer and the Assistant Coaches recognize full well that you don't burn your bridges.  They have and have maintained good relationships with high school coaches around the country for a number of years.  This is how they have built some good pipelines at their other coaching venues.  They also have a number colleagues with in the Division 3 and Division 2 coaching communities.  If someone they were  recruiting doesn't get into Bowdoin for whatever reason,  they would like as not mention that person to some other programs in the Midwest or elsewhere as someone to consider.

Coach Hammer and the Bowdoin football staff are working hard to turn the football program around.  You don't build a successful program with a scorched earth policy. 

Offline SpringSt7

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17212 on: October 04, 2020, 01:11:28 pm »
I don't know how we could talk about things coming back to bite Bowdoin, they've won 1 game in 4 years. As long as they are going about things in an ethical way (quite frankly I don't know how a program of their stature would even be able to do things unethically), who cares?

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17213 on: October 05, 2020, 12:00:11 am »
Voodoo

A little confused by your message but great to hear your input.
Of course I'm looking at things through the NESCAC "lens".....isn't that where Hammer is coaching? Might be a good idea to get a handle on the NESCAC venue.  Hammer IS burning bridges with his recruiting approach in the NESCAC, he's in a different conference now.

No question that Hammer is working very hard to build a winning program and I respect that but its a different recruiting environment than Allegheny and
the scorched earth approach won't fly long term.

Offline Trin8-0

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17214 on: October 05, 2020, 11:42:06 am »
Bowdoin has 120+ offers pending for 28 spots in the class of 2025.....and many of those are in the new "fertile recruiting turf' they see in Ohio which has previously been NESAC oblivious along with Pa which is somewhat the same.
At the risk of getting killed by the boys from Wabash or Wooster where everybody gets in not sure what vaunted recruiter Hammier is doing here....hope all those Ohio kids fit into the 28 admitted prospects in Brunswick or future recruiting in the Buckeye state will be tough and the Keystone state might also be a challenge.

Assuming lumbercat's claim is accurate, what exactly does a NESCAC "offer" entail? The popular phrasing that I've seen on twitter regarding student athlete's "commitments" is something along the lines of: "I am committed to the admission process at X".

As we all know, there are no scholarship offers in the NESCAC, so all a coach has to offer is the promise to make you a priority in the admissions process. Some student athletes won't need the help and would be accepted on their own academic merit. Others will require a "tip" and I think we would all be shocked if Bowdoin is getting any more than their allotted number for football players.

One way COVID could impact recruiting for the Class of 2025 is it's likely admissions standards will be lowered slightly across the board as schools clamor for students willing to pay $70K+ per year to take Zoom classes from their dorm rooms. Bowdoin very well may have told 120+ kids they will advocate for them in the admissions process this year. The truth may also be that many of them don't even need the help (especially if they don't need/qualify for financial aid).


Speaking of recruiting; here's the first QB commitment I've seen for Trinity in this cycle:
Avery Cheney QB, 6'3", 200 lbs, Rivers School, Weston, MA hudl
NESCAC CHAMPIONS: 1972, 1974, 1978, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018
UNDEFEATED SEASONS: 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016

Offline VoodooDoc

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17215 on: October 05, 2020, 12:18:56 pm »
Lumbercat

If reaching out beyond the normal recruiting areas in New England is a scorched earth program, then all I can say is "burn, baby burn!"  At Allegheny, the vast majority of recruits were from Western PA and Ohio.  Early on the coaching staff found a wide receiver from the Miami area who ran a 4.3 forty.  Had he been an inch or two taller, he would have been playing in the SEC or the ACC.  They also brought in a D2 transfer at linebacker who had been injured early in his freshman year.  With these guys setting a new tone,  and the coaching staff finding the right mix of personnel, the fuse was lit and quickly everyone was playing up to their potential.

Admittedly it is easier to stock a talent pool with 70 to 75 recruits a year than 25.  If they can find the right mix of talent to light a fuse at Bowdoin like they did at Allegheny  and start getting into the winning column, people like to be part of a winning program.  Given the great academic atmosphere and wonderful facilities at Bowdoin, top notch  players from New England will start to look in that direction.  Developing a winning program is the goal, and as we say down South, "you have to melt a little butter to make biscuits."  As Trin8-0 notes, recruiting in the NESCAC is essentially an invitation to apply.  If a player from the Midwest doesn't get admitted, they still have the entire regular D3 recruiting cycle to look at the other alternatives. 

 

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17216 on: October 06, 2020, 12:12:25 am »
Recruiting in the NESCAC is "just an invitation to apply"- your'e way off.
And I don't think that is what Trin 8-0 is saying.

Not sure you get the point-- Hammer has 120+ recruits thinking they have an inside track on getting into Bowdoin and playing football. He has 28 available opportunities which includes 14 TIPS. At the end of the day he is boiling the whole process down to the guys he wants to get admitted and he then needs to figure out where he wants to use his 14 TIPS. He's lining up 120 kids for that process and the vast majority of those kids don't realize that.
It might not matter with any group of disappointed recruits but it will be noted by the HS coaches who are helping their kids and acting as mentors in the recruiting process and will be involved with other recruits in years ahead.

Offline amh63

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17217 on: October 06, 2020, 11:23:07 am »
Been awhile for me posting here.  House bound here in Md.  Doing a lot of reading, etc., etc.  Anyway, reading the recent posts wrt Bowdoin’s Head Coach and his “recruiting” was interesting.  Went to the Polar Bear’s football website.  Hammer has 6-7 assistant coaches...no associate coaches.  Seems he brought his coaches from his last job in the Midwest.  Their recruiting areas /contacts are positioned in the Midwest and spread outward from Ohio.  Bowdoin has built fine new football facilities recently.  Hammer in his previous program rebuilt it from a losing one to a solid program.  IMO, Hammer, is expected to do the same at Bowdoin.  Where he recruits and where his assistants recruits  are also revealing. 
In short, having invested in rebuilding the football facilities, Hammer was brought in...along with his staff from the Midwest...to build a winning program at Bowdoin.  OK, at least to win the Maine “championship” in the near future...and a plus win season to follow.
Awful quiet on the Amherst website wrt football news.  Most Nescac websites have been updated...like the “fresh” windows into the schools.
Last bit of info wrt the COVID impact on Amherst....extra operational costs for Amherst to open/run the college is 20 million dollars plus.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 03:24:59 pm by amh63 »

Offline VoodooDoc

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17218 on: October 06, 2020, 02:11:55 pm »
Lumbercat

This has devolved into a discussion of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  With COVID 19 still raging, Bowdoin recently made announcements about the winter/spring  on campus  The freshmen who are now campus won't be there in the winter and spring.  With a vaccine likely to be widely available in the first or second quarter of 2021, it is likely that the NESCAC schools could be back on the field in the fall of 2021.  The real question will then be how many current players will return?  Will this create some extra slots for the players incoming in the Fall of 2021?  It only sound prudent to have some pipeline ready to go if needed.  Bowdoin is both in the process of improving their football program, and one important aspect is player talent, and trying to deal with the unknowns created by the pandemic.

Offline BigKat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17219 on: October 06, 2020, 03:07:45 pm »
Nescac has followed the Ivies to a T so far. Hearing multiple Ivy football parent groups being told normalcy of on campus life won't happen until 2022. Hope not but we shall see.