Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 2412545 times)

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15255 on: December 05, 2018, 10:19:37 am »
At Amherst, the coaches have other duties beyond their sports.  Believe it is the same with many of the Nescac schools.

And across Division III in general, this is pervasive.
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Offline NED3Guy

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15256 on: December 05, 2018, 01:22:36 pm »
And just so I'm not making this a Trinity thing.  The same thing happened with a player I coached who ended up going to Bowdoin a few years back (lacrosse and football I believe although he only ended up playing one).  The Williams coach who I was friends with and pointed the kid out to told the kid to take the SAT again.  The kid said he didn't want to and let the Williams coaches know that.  Two days later Williams tells him to apply ED1 and he is in without taking the SAT again.  The kid ended up going to Bowdoin anyway (I believe it was his first choice regardless).

I believe a lot of the NESCAC coaches pushing kids to re-take tests has less to do with if that kid will get into the school, and more to do with what level band they have to use on that kid. From my understanding schools are allotted different numbers of slots based on where a student falls within the general applicant pool. (I'm sure this has been discussed here a lot) If a kid has decent but not great SAT scores he may cost a team one of their lower band spots, but if you can get him to take the SAT's again and he can boost that score, he may now move into a better band, thus allowing you to now use the lower band spot on another kid And just to be clear, these applicants / candidates are still very strong academically, but may fall outside the scope of non-athlete admits

In the case of the above example, this kid may have already been a high band kid for Bowdoin (getting support from two coaches with Lax / Football), so they didn't need to have him re-take the test; but with the same scores he could have been a mid to lower band kid for Williams.

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15257 on: December 05, 2018, 01:32:15 pm »
And just so I'm not making this a Trinity thing.  The same thing happened with a player I coached who ended up going to Bowdoin a few years back (lacrosse and football I believe although he only ended up playing one).  The Williams coach who I was friends with and pointed the kid out to told the kid to take the SAT again.  The kid said he didn't want to and let the Williams coaches know that.  Two days later Williams tells him to apply ED1 and he is in without taking the SAT again.  The kid ended up going to Bowdoin anyway (I believe it was his first choice regardless).

I believe a lot of the NESCAC coaches pushing kids to re-take tests has less to do with if that kid will get into the school, and more to do with what level band they have to use on that kid. From my understanding schools are allotted different numbers of slots based on where a student falls within the general applicant pool. (I'm sure this has been discussed here a lot) If a kid has decent but not great SAT scores he may cost a team one of their lower band spots, but if you can get him to take the SAT's again and he can boost that score, he may now move into a better band, thus allowing you to now use the lower band spot on another kid And just to be clear, these applicants / candidates are still very strong academically, but may fall outside the scope of non-athlete admits

In the case of the above example, this kid may have already been a high band kid for Bowdoin (getting support from two coaches with Lax / Football), so they didn't need to have him re-take the test; but with the same scores he could have been a mid to lower band kid for Williams.

That makes sense. The kid who went to Bowdoin was about 12+ years ago as well, and I'm not sure if ED2 was around then.

Also made me think about what these Bowdoin coaches are telling these kids.  Almost makes more sense that they are keeping those under contract to help with recruiting with what seems like the most crucial time (11/1/18-1/1/19)

Offline Hawk196

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15258 on: December 05, 2018, 02:46:56 pm »
And just so I'm not making this a Trinity thing.  The same thing happened with a player I coached who ended up going to Bowdoin a few years back (lacrosse and football I believe although he only ended up playing one).  The Williams coach who I was friends with and pointed the kid out to told the kid to take the SAT again.  The kid said he didn't want to and let the Williams coaches know that.  Two days later Williams tells him to apply ED1 and he is in without taking the SAT again.  The kid ended up going to Bowdoin anyway (I believe it was his first choice regardless).

I believe a lot of the NESCAC coaches pushing kids to re-take tests has less to do with if that kid will get into the school, and more to do with what level band they have to use on that kid. From my understanding schools are allotted different numbers of slots based on where a student falls within the general applicant pool. (I'm sure this has been discussed here a lot) If a kid has decent but not great SAT scores he may cost a team one of their lower band spots, but if you can get him to take the SAT's again and he can boost that score, he may now move into a better band, thus allowing you to now use the lower band spot on another kid And just to be clear, these applicants / candidates are still very strong academically, but may fall outside the scope of non-athlete admits

In the case of the above example, this kid may have already been a high band kid for Bowdoin (getting support from two coaches with Lax / Football), so they didn't need to have him re-take the test; but with the same scores he could have been a mid to lower band kid for Williams.

This is true, I experienced it with my son at Yale. He was a high band 3 and they had him taking the SAT over & over to get him into band 4. My other son got his scores up to what coaches asked for, so he stopped taking them (I had him take it as often as he could over the spring/summer)

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15259 on: December 07, 2018, 07:51:34 pm »
Colby lands a very good RB- Trinity really wanted this kid.
Zach Cyr- 5'11" 210 Buckingham Browne and Nichols Cambridge Ma.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15260 on: December 07, 2018, 11:22:47 pm »
This a non sequitur on the NESCAC football board but nice to see the U Maine Black Bears representing New England College Football so well in their great run this year.
Rooting for the "Fightin Black Bears" tonight.

As a Boston kid landing at Bates in the mid 70's there was an immense amount respect for the Black Bears that you felt immediately.  Many of us were Boston kids who favored BC or Harvard but we felt the Maine loyalty for the Black Bears from day 1 to the the point that we became Maine fans as well.
 
We knew that Jack Bicknell interviewed for the Bates job and was first choice when Vic Gatto got the job and we rooted for Bicknell in Orono. Old Silver Lake High School and Deerfield friend Buddy Teevans later coached the Black Bears.

from a NESCAC perspective they say you can't get inner city kids to Maine, the Black Bears have proven that to be false.

No intent to be a front runner here but pulling for UMaine tonight.
 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 11:25:33 pm by lumbercat »

Offline frank uible

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15261 on: December 08, 2018, 01:30:57 am »
UMaine's skill players are not very skillful compared to the skill players UMaine is likely to encounter later in the playoffs. Consequently don't bet the farm - much less give points..

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15262 on: December 08, 2018, 09:35:09 am »
UMaine's skill players are not very skillful compared to the skill players UMaine is likely to encounter later in the playoffs. Consequently don't bet the farm - much less give points..

Frank UMaine is in the final 4 and just beat the #3 team in the country at their own place.  I'm betting only North Dakota State can say they are a clear notch above anyone else in the FCS.

Offline amh63

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15263 on: December 08, 2018, 11:05:58 am »
Lumbercat....I recall there was a Vic Gatto that was a tough short RB for Harvard.  The same?
Thanks for the history lesson :).

Offline JustAFan

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15264 on: December 08, 2018, 12:21:17 pm »
To continue the discussion further off-topic, to those who suggest that the NESCAC would not be competitive on the national stage in football, I note that Johns Hopkins recently beat RPI to make the semi-finals of the DIII championship (after earlier beating MIT). I admit it's only one data point, and it may not be appropriate to infer that Trinity or Amherst would enjoy the same success as Hopkins or RPI just because all of them are very good academic schools with strong football programs, but at the very least it suggests the two are not incompatible and that strong academic schools can enjoy success at the national level in football.  Of course,  Hopkins' reward is a game with perennial champion Mt. Union and we'll see how that goes.  The reality may nevertheless be that there is a huge divide between the top 2-3 DIII football schools and everyone else, including the rest of the tournament teams, but that doesn't diminish Hopkins (or RPI or MIT's) achievement in getting to and succeeding in the tournament or infer that NESCAC teams couldn't enjoy similar success.

As evidence of the potential divide between the top and bottom of the best of the best in the tournament, several of the DIII football tournament scores were staggering blowouts --e.g., first round scores included St. Johns (Minn) over Martin Luther 84-6 (that is not a typo!), Wisconsin-Whitewater over Eureka 67-14 and Mt. Union over Denison 60-0 and in a second round game Mary Hardin Baylor beat Berry College 75-9. It will come as no surprise to learn that Mary Hardin Baylor, Wisc-Whitewhater and Mt. Union are all in the final four along with Hopkins. Good luck to Hopkins, and the same to UMaine!


Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15265 on: December 08, 2018, 01:23:07 pm »
After a number of years of playing 10 games and participating in the playoffs, it's definitely possible that they could be like Johns Hopkins. Would take a little while to catch up first, probably.
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Offline 413Local

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15266 on: December 08, 2018, 01:25:11 pm »
Bentley, with scholarship money, is an interesting option  for a NESCAC oriented kid.  NE10 is a competitive league, Bentley is a top notch business school, that has a fantastic success rate in placing their graduates in jobs in their major right out of college.  NE10 is D2, NESCAC is D3.  I think the players and talent levels and depth reflect that difference.  Bentley is not accomodating with FA, but if they offer your son $$, it is time to take a hard look.  Once in at a NESCAC school, they are never going to adjust a FA decision in your favor, and my experience is that they actively look for ways to minimize FA, hence the barbell curved student populations.  Unless you are looking at the premiere NESCAC schhols, I would lean towards Bentley, and even might do that over A or W.  For what it's worth. (Assuming your son has a genuine interest in business curriculum).

Offline gridiron

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15267 on: December 08, 2018, 01:35:25 pm »
Yes Cosgrove is showing he can recruit with the best of them. Colby is in a much better place now.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15268 on: December 08, 2018, 01:45:48 pm »
Lumbercat....I recall there was a Vic Gatto that was a tough short RB for Harvard.  The same?
Thanks for the history lesson :).


Yes- Maybe  5'6" weighed 190- He was the youngest coach in the NCAA when he took over and rebuilt the Bates program. Vic was an unbelievable physical specimen with huge legs. Never spent a minute in the weight room, naturally gifted.

Offline gridiron

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15269 on: December 08, 2018, 01:46:29 pm »
Amher, that is the same Vic Gatto.

Also, Lumber, you will recall that in those UMaine Bicknell days coach Cosgrove was his starting quarterback. Also in the Maine lineage is Harvard's head coach Murphy who was the head coach of Maine as well.