Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 2709362 times)

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15405 on: January 11, 2019, 08:24:53 am »
Here is some fodder or at least consideration on how CBB and Tufts have done versus each other head to head going back to 1998....Polar Bears have a losing record to every team in the time period. Not an easy gig.

Colby: 0-12 vs Trinity, 0-21 to Amherst, 4-7 to Williams, 8-13 to Midd, 9-12 to Wesleyan, 10-11 Tufts, 12-9 Bates, 12-9 Bowdoin, Hamilton 18-3

Bates: Trinity 0-11, Amherst 1-11, Williams 6-15, Midd 0-21, Wesleyan 2-19, Tufts 4-17, Colby 9-12, Bowdoin 13-8, Hamilton 10-11

Bowdoin: Trinity 1-20, Amherst 2-19, Williams 1-11, Midd 2-9, Wesleyan 3-18, Tufts 8-13, Colby 9-12, Bates 8-13, Hamilton 10-11

Tufts: Trinity 3-18, Amherst 5-16, Williams 6-15, Midd 5-16, Wesleyan 5-6, Colby 11-10, Bates 17-4, Bowdoin 13-8, Hamilton 11-1
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Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15406 on: January 11, 2019, 09:14:29 am »
Sorry for the extra post, but I thought it might be relevant to the discussion around the divide and how there is no "middle".  Here is how all 9 teams rank with # of teams they have head to head winning records against...Clear top 3 middle 3 and bottom 4

Trinity 9, Amherst 8, Williams 7, Wesleyan 6, Midd 5, Tufts 4, Colby 3, Bates 2, Hamilton 1, Bowdoin 0
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Offline dman

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15407 on: January 11, 2019, 09:41:10 am »
Not sure what your source is but Williams is dead even with Trinity at 38-38-2 and has a winning record against all other Nescac teams.

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15408 on: January 11, 2019, 09:42:35 am »
Just last 21 years since 1998 off the d3 website

Not sure what your source is but Williams is dead even with Trinity at 38-38-2 and has a winning record against all other Nescac teams.
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Offline GoBlue61

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15409 on: January 11, 2019, 11:13:38 am »
Interesting stats on the head-to-head NESCAC records...obviously, a clear separation between the top, middle and bottom of the league.  You would probably see something similar in the Big Ten or SEC.  When was the last time Indiana beat Ohio State/Michigan or Vanderbilt beat Alabama/LSU?  The first job for the new Bowdoin coach is to beat Colby, Bates and Hamilton.  There is enough talent coming back to do that in 2019.  Then he can work on being competitive with the middle of the league.  Forget about Trinity; they have whole different level of athlete at this point.  (We can debate why that is so, but I don't think anyone who has seen the teams play can dispute that point.)  Admissions is the key.  Bowdoin needs to admit the 4 or 5 players each year who are going to make a difference.  If not, their record will remain the same, regardless of who they hire.

Offline OldCardinal

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15410 on: January 11, 2019, 01:58:57 pm »
There is no question that NESCAC has always had a Top, Middle and Bottom 3rd.


   Last Five      Last Four      Last Three      Last Two   
School   W   L   W   L   W   L   W   L
Trinity   36   6   31   3   24   2   16   2
Amherst   35   7   27   7   19   7   15   3
Wesle29   13   22   12   17   9   11   7
Midd   29   13   23   11   18   8   12   6
Tufts   29   13   25   9   19   7   12   6
Bates   11   31   7   27   5   21   2   16
Williams   15   27   13   21   11   15   11   7
Hamilton   11   31   11   23   9   17   6   12
Colby   10   32   8   26   7   19   4   14
Bowdoin   5   37   3   31   1   25   1   17
 

Offline OldCardinal

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15411 on: January 11, 2019, 02:02:15 pm »
Sorry about the formatting issue.  My whole point is that in recent years, Midd, Wesleyan and Tufts have made a move towards the top and that has made the CBB and Hamilton challenge even more difficult.  Williams is an anomaly because of a bad coaching situation.  They will be back in the top group before long.

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15412 on: January 11, 2019, 02:21:49 pm »
Totally agree. This is not isolated to any conference or Division level. I did the same for the Patriot League and the Centennial and its a similar "distribution" of top, middle and bottom. ALWAYS boils down to institutional commitment (admissions) and $$ for the coaching infrastructure.

Interesting stats on the head-to-head NESCAC records...obviously, a clear separation between the top, middle and bottom of the league.  You would probably see something similar in the Big Ten or SEC.  When was the last time Indiana beat Ohio State/Michigan or Vanderbilt beat Alabama/LSU?  The first job for the new Bowdoin coach is to beat Colby, Bates and Hamilton.  There is enough talent coming back to do that in 2019.  Then he can work on being competitive with the middle of the league.  Forget about Trinity; they have whole different level of athlete at this point.  (We can debate why that is so, but I don't think anyone who has seen the teams play can dispute that point.)  Admissions is the key.  Bowdoin needs to admit the 4 or 5 players each year who are going to make a difference.  If not, their record will remain the same, regardless of who they hire.
TAKE THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED

Offline NED3Guy

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15413 on: January 11, 2019, 02:40:49 pm »
Great stuff from those of you who did the deep dig and posted the records over years, and the head to head  W/L over the years.

Those numbers tell the tale for sure.

Brings me back to a question raised by a few of us after JBW was let go: How much does the recent history (honestly, two decades worth of history) impact the candidates who apply to Bowdoin?

In talking with folks at another school who had used the same search firm that Bowdoin is using for this one, it sounded like the firm was brought in not to find candidates but to help spin the numbers and make the job seem more presentable / desirable....my guess is that similar strategy is being used for Bowdoin job.

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15414 on: January 11, 2019, 02:47:38 pm »
Great stuff from those of you who did the deep dig and posted the records over years, and the head to head  W/L over the years.

Those numbers tell the tale for sure.

Brings me back to a question raised by a few of us after JBW was let go: How much does the recent history (honestly, two decades worth of history) impact the candidates who apply to Bowdoin?

In talking with folks at another school who had used the same search firm that Bowdoin is using for this one, it sounded like the firm was brought in not to find candidates but to help spin the numbers and make the job seem more presentable / desirable....my guess is that similar strategy is being used for Bowdoin job.
[/quote

The presence of the search firm is absolutely to give credibility to the job and spin it in a positive manner.  The answers to these excellent questions remain to be seen but Bowdoin is obviously hoping that the progress in recruiting over the past few years (thanks to JBW) and the "progressive" make up of the search committee (heavily admissions and development) will shed a better light than the past would warrant. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 04:03:07 pm by polbear73 »

Offline GoBlue61

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15415 on: January 11, 2019, 04:29:37 pm »
Not sure why a search firm is required to better position the Bowdoin job.  It is not like they are trying to lure Urban Myer or Jim Harbaugh.  It is a brand name school with nice facilities (now) in a good location that pays pretty well (my understanding).  Just identify an up and coming Patriot League or Ivy League Assistant Coach, who is looking to run his own program.  Obviously, they have a 100 year+ losing history.  So it will not take much to improve on the recent record.  Win 3 or 4 games a year and you will be a hero.

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15416 on: January 11, 2019, 06:01:54 pm »
GoBlue61: While I agree that the current environment represents significant improvement, the coaching community is a close one. Any candidate is going to know that Dave Caputi (excellent offensive coordinator at Williams before and Middlebury after Bowdoin) and JB Wells, who had built a powerful program at Endicott had horrible records at Bowdoin, and both are excellent football coaches. To some, it is where coaches go to die. Any up and comer as you describe is going to be very leery to take on Bowdoin when making a career decision. Bowdoin needs to show commitment to the Program and bringing in an executive search firm is one aspect. Other NESCAC schools, one school with a glorious football history in particular, has used this firm, and quite frankly, Bowdoin needs the credibility.

Offline quicksilver

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15417 on: January 11, 2019, 06:19:53 pm »
GoBlue61: While I agree that the current environment represents significant improvement, the coaching community is a close one. Any candidate is going to know that Dave Caputi (excellent offensive coordinator at Williams before and Middlebury after Bowdoin) and JB Wells, who had built a powerful program at Endicott had horrible records at Bowdoin, and both are excellent football coaches. To some, it is where coaches go to die. Any up and comer as you describe is going to be very leery to take on Bowdoin when making a career decision. Bowdoin needs to show commitment to the Program and bringing in an executive search firm is one aspect. Other NESCAC schools, one school with a glorious football history in particular, has used this firm, and quite frankly, Bowdoin needs the credibility.

I am not sure why the admissions director is serving on the search committee . .  I would think that she would be more likely to scare away potential candidates by telling them how demanding Bowdoin admissions is and would not have much expertise in what makes a good head football coach . .  . . . Someone in  position of power -- like the president -- needs to lay down some guidelines for the admissions department that makes a competitive team a priority. The same thing is true for other teams like men's hockey that have been needlessly struggling in recent years in comparison to peer NESCAC schools . .

Offline polbear73

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15418 on: January 11, 2019, 06:28:38 pm »
My guess, quicksilver, is that is a way to give Admissions an ownership of the football program and a greater understanding of what it takes to be competitive in NESCAC. Perhaps establishing a relationship in the hiring process between prospective coaches and Admissions will eliminate an adversarial process later on. I actually like the idea.

Offline quicksilver

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15419 on: January 11, 2019, 07:07:50 pm »
You're right PB73, her involvement makes sense when you look at it from the ownership perspective. But still edicts need to be laid down from the powers-that-be . . .