Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 2665124 times)

Offline footballluv

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15960 on: September 10, 2019, 04:14:08 pm »
footballuv we are roughly on the same page.  The reason I knocked Tufts down a bit is because (I believe) they lost their entire offensive line to graduation, as well as everyone who attempted a pass (and McDonald was a beast at QB the last two years, hard to imagine his replacement can be nearly as productive right away).  There are no senior o-linemen on the roster so the unit looks pretty green.  Tufts also graduated its two leading receivers.  There is still a lot of talent there, especially on defense, but the OL and QB situation are a big question mark ... in good news for Tufts, however, two important players return for a fifth year: TB Dom Borelli and WR Frank Roche, so they will have three starters returning on O instead of only 1.  Still, it's a very tough year for a team in transition to have such a front-loaded schedule (Trinity, at Williams, Amherst to start, at Wesleyan in week five, so probably 4/5 games Tufts will be at least a slight underdog in).

Gotcha. That makes it interesting in the middle of the pack.

Offline middhoops

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15961 on: September 10, 2019, 04:58:53 pm »
Middlebury posted its roster today.  Season preview doesn't present much but it's here if you want to check it out.

https://spark.adobe.com/page/L8DSAfcmCVnca/

The Midd football program is not, umm, splashy.

Online lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15962 on: September 10, 2019, 09:29:51 pm »
Come on, folks, anything to talk about OTHER than Trinity's admissions? 

Here's a guess at how I'd tier teams heading into the season:

1. Trinity
2. Amherst/Williams
3. Tufts/Colby/Wesleyan/Middlebury
4. Hamilton
5. Bates/Bowdoin



Nescacman-

Don't disagree at all- pretty much agree with your picks.

Bowdoin will be better than most think. I would slow down the Colby boat a bit.

Bates will struggle again- they are now feeling the effects of bringing in Coach Hall very late last year. It took them too long to negotiate the departure of Coach Harriman. Hall has been on the job for only one year. The next recruiting class will essentially be his first. He was hired way too late to impact this years incoming class which is only 18 in number. They have 3-4 very good kids coming in but it's a lean recruiting year due to a sloppy coaching transition. Neophyte AD at Bates now realizes his timetable for the coaching change was wistful at best.
Withold judgement on Coach Hall until he can bring in his own recruits.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 09:47:12 pm by lumbercat »

Offline Trin8-0

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15963 on: September 10, 2019, 10:27:59 pm »
I don't know the source of the numbers used above, but each school which receives federal financial aid dollars is obliged to file an annual report to the U.S. Department of Education, and athletics spending is among the data:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

Thanks for the link Pat. Very interesting information... for those interested here's how the NESCAC ranked in terms of football program expenses for 2017 (the most recent year for which data was available):

1. Colby | $997,073
2. Wesleyan | $897,675
3. Hamilton | $892,153
4. Trinity | $842,989
5. Bowdoin | $820,972
6. Amherst | $766,012
7. Tufts | $719,092
8. Bates | $645,926
9. Williams | $631,066
10. Middlebury | $603,492

I don't see much of a correlation to on the field results in these figures. Trinity and Amherst, who have dominated the league for the past decade+, are middle of the pack. Colby and Hamilton have been among the worst teams in the conference but are both top three here. Williams and Middlebury are the bottom two and each as been very successful in terms of wins and losses.

Regarding test optional NESCAC schools: Trinity, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Bates, and Connecticut College do not require SAT scores. Other "test-flexible" schools, which waive test requirements if you meet a minimum GPA or are applying to a specific program, include Colby, Hamilton, and Middlebury. As you can see it's a very common practice these days.
NESCAC CHAMPIONS: 1972, 1974, 1978, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018
UNDEFEATED SEASONS: 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016

Online lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15964 on: September 10, 2019, 11:26:28 pm »
Lumbercat....need a little more clarity on “institutional commitments”.  (quote)





Amh63-

Football expenditures by school 2017:

Trinity $805,751
Williams $569,327
Amherst $672,870

Additional Football game expenditure-  per game- per team member  2017:

Trinity $2,240
Williams $1,658
Amherst $ 1,496

Football Revenues- 2017

Trinity $1,039,788
Williams $569,327
Amherst $744,860

Online lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15965 on: September 10, 2019, 11:31:16 pm »

Football expenditures by school 2017:

Trinity $805,751
Williams $569,327
Amherst $672,870

Additional Football game expenditure-  per game- per team member  2017:

Trinity $2,240
Williams $1,658
Amherst $ 1,496

Football Revenues- 2017

Trinity $1,039,788
Williams $569,327
Amherst $744,860



Trin 80
Above is my post from early 2019 on expenditures which at that time focuses on a comparison between Trinity, Williams and Amherst. I looked on the same website and don't see your numbers. Check expenses per game, per team member. Believe your numbers are offset by outside revenues.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 12:05:36 am by lumbercat »

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15966 on: September 11, 2019, 07:55:14 am »

Football expenditures by school 2017:

Trinity $805,751
Williams $569,327
Amherst $672,870

Additional Football game expenditure-  per game- per team member  2017:

Trinity $2,240
Williams $1,658
Amherst $ 1,496

Football Revenues- 2017

Trinity $1,039,788
Williams $569,327
Amherst $744,860



Trin 80
Above is my post from early 2019 on expenditures which at that time focuses on a comparison between Trinity, Williams and Amherst. I looked on the same website and don't see your numbers. Check expenses per game, per team member. Believe your numbers are offset by outside revenues.

Please let this lead to a "Trinity Grads can't count" kind of issue.  :D

Offline DC 53

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15967 on: September 11, 2019, 08:57:12 am »
Hamilton's roster is up. Quite a few FY linebackers.

https://athletics.hamilton.edu/sports/fball/2019-20/roster

Online ColbyFootball

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15968 on: September 11, 2019, 09:08:34 am »
Please take a moment to remember 9/11. May we never forget.

Offline Trin8-0

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15969 on: September 11, 2019, 09:40:01 am »
Trin 80
Above is my post from early 2019 on expenditures which at that time focuses on a comparison between Trinity, Williams and Amherst. I looked on the same website and don't see your numbers. Check expenses per game, per team member. Believe your numbers are offset by outside revenues.

I just added the "Expenses" and "Operating Expenses" lines for football. The site defines those two categories as the following:
Expenses
All expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities. This includes appearance guarantees and options, athletically related student aid, contract services, equipment, fundraising activities, operating expenses, promotional activities, recruiting expenses, salaries and benefits, supplies, travel, and any other expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities.
Operating expenses
All expenses an institution incurs attributable to home, away, and neutral-site intercollegiate athletic contests (commonly known as game-day expenses), for (A) Lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, and equipment for coaches, team members, support staff (including, but not limited to team managers and trainers), and others; and (B) Officials.

Jonny, feel free to check the math.

NESCAC CHAMPIONS: 1972, 1974, 1978, 1980, 1983, 1987, 1991, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016, 2017, 2018
UNDEFEATED SEASONS: 1911, 1915, 1934, 1949, 1954, 1955, 1993, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2012, 2016

Online amh63

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15970 on: September 11, 2019, 11:06:46 am »
ColbyFootball...thanks for the post.
Spoke to my daughter today....an Amherst alum...her daughter asked about 9/11.  Amherst lost a number of alums in the Twin Towers “event”.  My older brother was in Crystal City,Va. when the plane hit the Pentagon.  My brother and I had dinner in Va. the night before.  My brother, an Army veteran and the Chief Scientist for the Army Ballistic Missile Command in Huntsville, Alabama had to drive his rental car back to Huntsville.  Luckily, my brother’s tri-service mtg was held in my former secure offices in Crystal City vice the Pentagon.
My brother, a Harvard alum, twice over, is a Crimson Tide follower....Roll Tide!  This is a football board.

Online Hawk196

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15971 on: September 11, 2019, 12:02:07 pm »
https://nothingbutnescac.com/?cat=10

some nice reviews of the up coming season

Online ColbyFootball

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15972 on: September 11, 2019, 04:44:34 pm »
ColbyFootball...thanks for the post.
Spoke to my daughter today....an Amherst alum...her daughter asked about 9/11.  Amherst lost a number of alums in the Twin Towers “event”.  My older brother was in Crystal City,Va. when the plane hit the Pentagon.  My brother and I had dinner in Va. the night before.  My brother, an Army veteran and the Chief Scientist for the Army Ballistic Missile Command in Huntsville, Alabama had to drive his rental car back to Huntsville.  Luckily, my brother’s tri-service mtg was held in my former secure offices in Crystal City vice the Pentagon.
My brother, a Harvard alum, twice over, is a Crimson Tide follower....Roll Tide!  This is a football board.
I can't wait for nescac football to start. I'd love to see Hamilton finally break through with a 5 or 6 win season. Murray is a terrific guy, and a terrific coach. That would be a nice step up in the process of getting into the top tier. I'll also be pulling for Colby to make some big gains along the same lines. Cosgrove seems to have it going.


Online lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #15974 on: September 11, 2019, 09:41:46 pm »
Trin 80
Above is my post from early 2019 on expenditures which at that time focuses on a comparison between Trinity, Williams and Amherst. I looked on the same website and don't see your numbers. Check expenses per game, per team member. Believe your numbers are offset by outside revenues.

I just added the "Expenses" and "Operating Expenses" lines for football. The site defines those two categories as the following:
Expenses
All expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities. This includes appearance guarantees and options, athletically related student aid, contract services, equipment, fundraising activities, operating expenses, promotional activities, recruiting expenses, salaries and benefits, supplies, travel, and any other expenses attributable to intercollegiate athletic activities.
Operating expenses
All expenses an institution incurs attributable to home, away, and neutral-site intercollegiate athletic contests (commonly known as game-day expenses), for (A) Lodging, meals, transportation, uniforms, and equipment for coaches, team members, support staff (including, but not limited to team managers and trainers), and others; and (B) Officials.

Jonny, feel free to check the math.



Good research but believe the operating expenses are a component within the expense category so I don't think you add those.  This would get you closer to my numbers from Jan 2019.
I didn't get numbers for every NESCAC school but here are the numbers as of 1/19:

Expenses:

Trin 805,751
Am 672,870
Wil 569,327
Bowdoin 676,952
Colby 613,469
Bates 522,229

Per Player:

Trin 2,240
Am 1,496
Wil 1,658
Bowdoin 1,709
Colby 1,632
Bates 1,297

Big discrepancy in the Colby numbers between Trinity 80 and my numbers..... maybe reflective of enhanced commitment with the Cosgrove era?

However one thing all these numbers show is there is very minimal correlation between Football spending and school endowments.




« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 09:44:28 pm by lumbercat »