Author Topic: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference  (Read 3197564 times)

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17220 on: October 06, 2020, 03:24:35 pm »
I've heard from several Ivy coaches/players that it does not look good for spring ball for them. 

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17221 on: October 06, 2020, 10:32:49 pm »
Voodoo

Just the opposite- no Football this year so many NESCAC upperclassmen have taken a semester off  to stay around and experience their fill eligibility. Many NESCAC athletes want to experience that final year or two of football for which they have worked so hard.

Additionally, many admitted FYs in the class of 24 have deferred entry as they understandably don't want to deal with all this COVID stuff.

This leads to a scenario with schools actually offering less openings in the class of 2025.

You've got it backwards. Hammers recruiting approach this year combined with seniors staying back and recruited '24 FYs deferring admission makes for a smaller class of 2025......all this amid Hammers record setting pace of 2025 offers. Just doesn't add up- major admissions traffic jam at Bowdoin.
 

Offline SpringSt7

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17222 on: October 06, 2020, 11:19:01 pm »
Doesn't all of this rely on the assumption that a program that has 1 win in 4 years will all of a sudden get an overwhelming influx of commitments from a supposedly strong region of high school football?

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17223 on: October 07, 2020, 10:06:34 am »
Not all about Football in the NESCAC. The implication of admission to Bowdoin, the institution, represents a very lucrative offer to any student athlete who has any academic aspirations whatsoever.
Bowdoin is among the top 5 or 6 Liberal Arts schools in the country. The majority of these kids will put academics first but still will relish the opportunity to be a part of a rebuilding process in the Football program.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 10:13:03 am by lumbercat »

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17224 on: October 07, 2020, 10:46:17 am »
Not all about Football in the NESCAC. The implication of admission to Bowdoin, the institution, represents a very lucrative offer to any student athlete who has any academic aspirations whatsoever.
Bowdoin is among the top 5 or 6 Liberal Arts schools in the country. The majority of these kids will put academics first but still will relish the opportunity to be a part of a rebuilding process in the Football program.

Can I ask what the underlying issue is?  Is Hammer lying to kids?  Are kids promised something they might not have (early admission, promise that if they get a better SAT score they get admitted, etc?) 

I don't care what HS football power state you are from, like the IVY's, a Nescac school is able to recruit anywhere (Georgia, California, Texas, Ohio) so those "connections" shouldn't matter that much.  We know that unlike the Ivys, the NESCAC still gets most of their football rosters from New England prep/private schools.

So what is Hammer doing that is wrong?  Or is it unethical?  Or has Bowdoin dropping standards?  I'm confused.

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17225 on: October 07, 2020, 02:20:56 pm »
I know of 2 specific cases.

One recruit has a direct tacit promise of admission in the ED process and has accepted the offer.. He is presumably one of their 14 Tips. This is usual and pretty customary. He has accepted and will apply ED.....he's in.
This is the closest anyone gets to a guarantee of admission in the NESCAC and is the only scenario that represents a legitimate offer.

Another local kid has one of these offers of promise of strong support form the coaching staff in the admissions process. They promise to push hard directly for him in the academic process and he should have a good chance of getting in. The rub of it all he doesn't know he is one of 120+ recruits to whom they have made this offer.

I estimate  there are 25 football spots in the class of 2025. 14 of those will go to chosen Tips which will receive a real offer.

That leaves maybe 10-12 openings for 110+ who believe they have an offer from the Bowdoin coaching staff.

Misleading to the recruits and families.

Don't believe the coaching staff can effectively and sincerely support 100+ recruits for 12 openings in a very intense admissions process with a very tough, though softening, Bowdoin Admission Dept.

I believe Hammer will instead choose the top 15-20 candidates in this remaining pool of 100+  and strongly advocate for a small group for the remaining open slots. Most of those kids have no chance.

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17226 on: October 07, 2020, 03:01:52 pm »
I know of 2 specific cases.

One recruit has a direct tacit promise of admission in the ED process and has accepted the offer.. He is presumably one of their 14 Tips. This is usual and pretty customary. He has accepted and will apply ED.....he's in.
This is the closest anyone gets to a guarantee of admission in the NESCAC and is the only scenario that represents a legitimate offer.

Another local kid has one of these offers of promise of strong support form the coaching staff in the admissions process. They promise to push hard directly for him in the academic process and he should have a good chance of getting in. The rub of it all he doesn't know he is one of 120+ recruits to whom they have made this offer.

I estimate  there are 25 football spots in the class of 2025. 14 of those will go to chosen Tips which will receive a real offer.

That leaves maybe 10-12 openings for 110+ who believe they have an offer from the Bowdoin coaching staff.

Misleading to the recruits and families.

Don't believe the coaching staff can effectively and sincerely support 100+ recruits for 12 openings in a very intense admissions process with a very tough, though softening, Bowdoin Admission Dept.

I believe Hammer will instead choose the top 15-20 candidates in this remaining pool of 100+  and strongly advocate for a small group for the remaining open slots. Most of those kids have no chance.

Got it.  But it isn't like 120 kids are tweeting out that they are getting into Bowdoin.  Just that you have info that 120 or so kids were told the coaches are pushing the admissions office for them and (one of the kids) was told he had a good chance of getting in.

Where do you get the 120 from though?  I don't have a huge issue with a coach telling kids where he thinks they stand in terms of admissions.  As long as he is honest with them and I don't even think 100 kids are an issue.  I'm assuming a few hundred kids want to play football at Bowdoin but won't go for some reason (got a d1 offer, couldn't get in, chose Amherst, got better financial aid somewhere else)

I would assume after the ED that those 120 guys are out of the coaches hand anyway?  Or that he knows what each kid is going to need to get in? 

I mean the bottom line is whether or not he is lying or misleading kids.  I guess that is what I was asking.  Recruiting 250 kids isn't an issue as long as he is honest with them.  Even he knows they are only going to admit 200 boys anyway right?

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17227 on: October 07, 2020, 03:55:50 pm »
I won't use terms like cheat or lie-I'm not saying that.  To my knowledge  they are technically not breaking any procedural rules despite this being a new tact for Bowdoin. As many have pointed out Hammer needs to do something different. However I feel this kind of an approach is suspect, maybe a little slippery and may create some problems for them in the future when HS coaches and others see the methodology here.

Trinity takes a lot of criticism for a lot of things but Devanney is very clear in his recruiting message. He tells the peripheral recruits they are welcome to apply and "walk on" and compete for a spot on the roster but makes no promise of admission or a roster spot. He reserves that "offer" for a much smaller number of his preferred recruits.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 04:03:14 pm by lumbercat »

Offline The Mole

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17228 on: October 07, 2020, 04:52:30 pm »
Fascinating topic here in the absence of games being played. I have a question of clarification here: Doesn't the NESCAC do admission "pre-reads" to give the candidates the "heads-up" of one of 3 outcomes: 1) yes, we will support your application for admission (the tips) 2) we need to see more (higher standardized test, another marking period of improved grades, etc) 3) No, best to look elsewhere

If that is the case, then you have to assume those other 100 or so are in scenario #2 above? What we do not know is how transparent the conversations are--if they are, no harm no foul. Otherwise, I could see how reputational damage could be done with high school program coaches, etc.

1-34 over the last 4 years. At least they are trying. Great thread here.
TAKE THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED

Offline BigKat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17229 on: October 08, 2020, 02:15:23 pm »
Nescac winter sports just scratched;not a great sign for any wedged Spring football season.

Offline Trin8-0

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Offline Hawk196

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17231 on: October 09, 2020, 10:03:58 am »
Trinity College suspends in-person classes after more than 20 new cases of coronavirus are reported

That is ridiculous! My son's roommate at Tufts had it (they staggered the move in dates, he was there 1st). They moved him to the isolation trailers on the tennis courts and once he was cleared he moved back in with my son......This online crap is a joke and I feel bad for people paying $70K+ for a glorified Univ. of Arizona remote degree

Offline lumbercat

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17232 on: October 09, 2020, 12:40:55 pm »
With no football this year I am curious as to how many Football guys in the NESCAC class of 2021 will defer their final year of eligibility and play in the Fall of 2021.

On a related note I heard that all 6 of the Seniors on the Tufts Basketball team will defer their eligibility and come back next year.

Interested to see how many Class 2021 Football players will stick around for another year.

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17233 on: October 09, 2020, 03:44:27 pm »
With no football this year I am curious as to how many Football guys in the NESCAC class of 2021 will defer their final year of eligibility and play in the Fall of 2021.

On a related note I heard that all 6 of the Seniors on the Tufts Basketball team will defer their eligibility and come back next year.

Interested to see how many Class 2021 Football players will stick around for another year.

I have seen on multiple boards, including this one, people claiming that the vast majority of seniors are coming back for one more season.  I wonder how accurate those "reports" are.  Making the decision to not apply for a job, holding off on applying to med/law school, deferring interviews for internships...these are really tough decisions for these kids to make.  Missing senior year of a sport is devastating, but how many kids can afford to really put off life for another year?

Offline bantamweight

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Re: FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference
« Reply #17234 on: October 09, 2020, 03:55:22 pm »
This online crap is a joke and I feel bad for people paying $70K+ for a glorified Univ. of Arizona remote degree
So elitist that U of Arizona is that far beneath you? Ranked a top 100 university with a 1B endowment.  :o