Author Topic: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference  (Read 460478 times)

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3090 on: December 17, 2020, 01:01:24 pm »
Glad to hear reports that Hiram may be getting stronger in the next few years.  Anytime a team that is usually at the bottom of the league standings gets better, the entire league gets benefits.  Better strength of schedule ratings for everyone and teams may be less likely to save their pitching for another opponent.

Very true.  It doesn't help anyone when a team (or teams) are just bad.  You just want to avoid the OAC dilemma where a bunch of teams are all pretty good to really good and you cannibalize your own best teams with the meat grinder conference schedule.  Hopefully you find that sweet spot where everyone is solid, but your top teams are still able to win 30+ overall for at-large bid consideration. 

I think the NCAC is on the upswing.  Hiram hopefully is making strides.  Denison seems to be ascending to join that perennial nationally ranked tier.  Witt should also hopefully be improving as McGee is also doing a nice job recruiting.  The one I'd like to see return to prominence a little more is Allegheny.   

Offline Pops33

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3091 on: December 21, 2020, 12:46:10 pm »
Me too.  I would like to see Allegheny get back to competing for one of the top 3 spots.  There used to be a good rivalry between the Gator and Wooster, but the current players at Wooster probably view Denison as their biggest rival these days. Being located close to Erie, Youngstown, and Pittsburgh should enable Allegheny to have good recruiting classes every year.  I just wonder how much all of the D2 schools in the PSAC interfere with them getting the local kids.  Ohio does not have that same issue, with only a few D2 schools. 


Offline Bishopleftiesdad

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3092 on: December 21, 2020, 01:39:33 pm »
I would like to see OWU get back to were they were. They need more depth. My son graduated in 2015. The recruiting class after his was very strong. That class was huge.
Holloway had just retired and I Watts was coming in. I don't believe Watts had the time to recruit that he needed, and the other sports picked up the slack.
Mott, has had some really good ballplayers, I just do not think there is the competition, internally that good teams need.
Just My Opinion.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 01:42:06 pm by Bishopleftiesdad »

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3093 on: December 24, 2020, 10:24:36 am »
Me too.  I would like to see Allegheny get back to competing for one of the top 3 spots.  There used to be a good rivalry between the Gator and Wooster, but the current players at Wooster probably view Denison as their biggest rival these days. Being located close to Erie, Youngstown, and Pittsburgh should enable Allegheny to have good recruiting classes every year.  I just wonder how much all of the D2 schools in the PSAC interfere with them getting the local kids.  Ohio does not have that same issue, with only a few D2 schools.

Just from the kids they spotlight on social media coming in it definitely seems Allegheny is very Pittsburgh area focused.  I almost think they should also hop over into Ohio a little more and try to find some kids that want to "go away" for college, but maybe not too far away.  Hit Cleveland, Youngstown, Columbus a little.  Their big challenge as you pointed out is they have the PSAC to contend with.  Throw in the non-NCAC programs in western PA (W&J, Thiel, Westminster, etc.) and they have a lot of competition.

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3094 on: December 24, 2020, 10:41:27 am »
I would like to see OWU get back to were they were. They need more depth. My son graduated in 2015. The recruiting class after his was very strong. That class was huge.
Holloway had just retired and I Watts was coming in. I don't believe Watts had the time to recruit that he needed, and the other sports picked up the slack.
Mott, has had some really good ballplayers, I just do not think there is the competition, internally that good teams need.
Just My Opinion.

This is something I've been interested in for a few years.  D3 roster sizes.  Since I'm into baseball and also an accountant I have a spreadsheet for it.  LOL.  It started because I was interested how each program dealt with roster size because there are usually large ranges within the same conferences.  For example, in 2020 the range was 33 (Musky) to 62 (Mount).  It sounds like OWU skews leaner on numbers most years.  Berg did the same for years including in their peak years, but they recruited so well that it worked for them.  Short of that it does seem the best path may be the large roster, only the strong survive model.  BW and Ott use it (both were just behind Mount).   

Offline Pops33

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3095 on: December 28, 2020, 01:04:46 pm »
I have heard that some schools get a directive from their administration to keep increased roster sizes for all of their athletic programs to help with the total enrollment of the institution.  This is a difficult dynamic as there are definitely some kids that may have been overlooked or did not develop enough in high school to warrant consideration from any schools, D3 included.  The increased roster size gives them a chance to work their butts off and eventually represent the school on the field.  However, there are also those kids that are being recruited to go to certain schools just to increase the numbers, with virtually no chance to reach the field.  I just hope the coaches that recruit these roster fillers are honest with the kids about their chances.

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3096 on: December 29, 2020, 09:23:57 am »
There are definitely some schools where the administration strongly encourages large rosters.  I've heard this directly from a couple coaches (and not at Mount).  The biggest thing from a baseball standpoint is that it can be a strain on your assistants.  One, if you expect them to recruit bigger classes each year.  Two, if you have 60 players you're almost certainly running separate varsity and JV practices which falls on the assistants to organize and run.

The one thing I will say that I understand more as an adult than I did as a student is no cuts.  And I am very much anti participation trophy.  When there are 60+ kids on the team there are a few that you wonder if they played in HS.  But I remember Hesse telling us as freshmen that he would not cut any kid for baseball reasons.  The thought was that if you were willing to give up your free time everyday, be on time to practice, work hard at practice and keep your grades up you were honing skills beyond baseball and it was a D3 school so that's the point.  And in hindsight he was right. 

Offline Pops33

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3097 on: December 29, 2020, 11:50:34 am »
I agree that team sports definitely provide some education, or life skills, that transfer to many different parts of a person's life.  I believe it provides the critical skills of learning to work with different types of people, learning what it takes to succeed, experiencing & overcoming failure, how to compete, and developing leadership skills, to name a few. My children will be involved in team sports as long as they are able to compete, be successful, and they still enjoy doing it.

Regarding the topic of roster sizes, it is probably not a one size fits every program.  Each coach/administration determines what is best for them to meet the goals of the program.  I think there is a point where a roster can be too small to have a continually successful program, probably around the 32 number.  Ideally, it is probably 35-45.  I also think that if the goal is to have everyone practice/develop as a team together, there starts to be diminishing returns beginning around the 40-45 player mark.  Just my personal opinion. 

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3098 on: December 29, 2020, 02:07:51 pm »
I agree that team sports definitely provide some education, or life skills, that transfer to many different parts of a person's life.  I believe it provides the critical skills of learning to work with different types of people, learning what it takes to succeed, experiencing & overcoming failure, how to compete, and developing leadership skills, to name a few. My children will be involved in team sports as long as they are able to compete, be successful, and they still enjoy doing it.

Regarding the topic of roster sizes, it is probably not a one size fits every program.  Each coach/administration determines what is best for them to meet the goals of the program.  I think there is a point where a roster can be too small to have a continually successful program, probably around the 32 number.  Ideally, it is probably 35-45.  I also think that if the goal is to have everyone practice/develop as a team together, there starts to be diminishing returns beginning around the 40-45 player mark.  Just my personal opinion.

I agree on the ideal "small" roster size.  Berg was usually around 40 kids in their peak days.  Another angle where the smaller roster helps is in the winter.  When you're competing with softball, tennis, indoor track, etc. for practice time in the fieldhouse being able to maximize each kid's reps during that time is big. 

I'm not familiar enough with the NCAC to know, but in the OAC there is a wide divide in terms of financial/administrative support of athletics.  The schools that financially promote sports like BW, Mount, ONU, JCU are going to have the full menu of roster options because they pay for a full-time assistant plus usually another part-time assistant or two.  Someone like Wilm may only give their HC one part-time assistant.  It's hard to manage a large roster with one part-time assistant. 

Offline Dr. Acula

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3099 on: January 06, 2021, 11:44:56 am »
As a little follow up to our roster discussion, I just looked last night and Ott has 20 freshmen this year.  Mount has 27.  Over the weekend I'll check the NCAC rosters and pass on anything interesting. 

Offline Pops33

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3100 on: January 07, 2021, 10:36:13 am »
I went online and checked the rosters of the NCAC baseball teams.  Highest was Hiram at 27 (2020 roster as 2021 is not online yet).  This makes sense as it is a new coach and he is trying to impact the program.  Next is Wabash at 18 (2020 roster).  Oberlin has no freshman listed on their 2021 roster, but 18 Sophomores are listed.  The fewest number of freshman is Wooster at 7.  This also makes sense because when my son was being recruited by Wooster, we were told that they only recruit players that they feel will have an impact on the program.  FYI, OWU 9 (2020), Witt 10, Denison 12 (2020), Kenyon, Allegheny, Depauw (2020) are all at 14.

Offline Bishopleftiesdad

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Re: BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #3101 on: January 12, 2021, 07:53:39 am »
Typical Freshman Roster for OWU, in the past has been 9-12. OWU 2021 Roster will probably not be up until March. They are usually one of the last Rosters up in the NCAC.
IF you know a little about how webpages work you can get a sneak peak at some of the rosters for 2021.