Author Topic: Pool C  (Read 1057978 times)

Offline smedindy

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7740 on: March 01, 2018, 12:37:05 pm »
The big difference is that the decent teams in the SEC and B1G will always get bids, so the tourney is just for $$ and maybe a seed line.

If a B1G team loses to Rutgers in the tourney, they don't deserve to go anywhere but home.

Offline Smitty Oom

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7741 on: March 01, 2018, 12:43:47 pm »
If a B1G team loses to Rutgers in the tourney, they don't deserve to go anywhere but home.

http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/022818aaa.html

 >:( :'( :(

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7742 on: March 01, 2018, 02:04:19 pm »
The big difference is that the decent teams in the SEC and B1G will always get bids, so the tourney is just for $$ and maybe a seed line.

If a B1G team loses to Rutgers in the tourney, they don't deserve to go anywhere but home.

The difference is also auto bids.  If d3 had as many Pool C slots as the D1 tournament, you'd see large numbers of teams from the power conferences in every year.
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Online Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7743 on: March 01, 2018, 02:15:02 pm »
The big difference is that the decent teams in the SEC and B1G will always get bids, so the tourney is just for $$ and maybe a seed line.

If a B1G team loses to Rutgers in the tourney, they don't deserve to go anywhere but home.

The difference is also auto bids.  If d3 had as many Pool C slots as the D1 tournament, you'd see large numbers of teams from the power conferences in every year.

Division III has 11 more conferences (thus AQs) and 90+ more teams than D1. That is one of the biggest reasons those who try and make an argument in DIII using the DI model don't get it. There is an idea out there I need to suss out with it's source that I like that could get better teams in... but it won't solve the question we always get: why didn't my team who was most deserving get it? LOL
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Offline Oline89

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7744 on: March 01, 2018, 03:00:03 pm »
I feel that the fact that there are 11 more conferences and 90 more teams is exactly the reason why so many question the current system.  With more conferences to choose from, it seems that the odds of one conference placing 4 teams in the pool of 64 should be less.  Unless, of course, those 4 teams are truly among the best 64 in the country.  Defining the best is the problem.  Best record? Margin of victory? Current system (as long as conferences are not manipulating the SOS)? 


The big difference is that the decent teams in the SEC and B1G will always get bids, so the tourney is just for $$ and maybe a seed line.

If a B1G team loses to Rutgers in the tourney, they don't deserve to go anywhere but home.

The difference is also auto bids.  If d3 had as many Pool C slots as the D1 tournament, you'd see large numbers of teams from the power conferences in every year.

Division III has 11 more conferences (thus AQs) and 90+ more teams than D1. That is one of the biggest reasons those who try and make an argument in DIII using the DI model don't get it. There is an idea out there I need to suss out with it's source that I like that could get better teams in... but it won't solve the question we always get: why didn't my team who was most deserving get it? LOL

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7745 on: March 01, 2018, 03:04:57 pm »
I feel that the fact that there are 11 more conferences and 90 more teams is exactly the reason why so many question the current system.  With more conferences to choose from, it seems that the odds of one conference placing 4 teams in the pool of 64 should be less.  Unless, of course, those 4 teams are truly among the best 64 in the country.  Defining the best is the problem.  Best record? Margin of victory? Current system (as long as conferences are not manipulating the SOS)? 


That ends being more an issue of regionality.  It's just easier to help your SOS when there are more teams to choose from.  You can pick out the best matchups to help yourself.  If you notice, teams like St. Thomas that travel often, end up with better SOS numbers than others in their conference.  Proximity is a big advantage - when you're not funded by TV money like the d1 schools, it's harder to put together the kind of schedule that gets you noticed.
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Online Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7746 on: March 01, 2018, 03:08:54 pm »
Also, let's not pretend the national tournament in any NCAA sport in any division is designed to get the best teams in the tournament. It isn't the best 64... it can't be when you use AQs for bids. It never was designed as such, it won't change. This isn't the pros... and even they don't get the best X amount of teams in their tournaments either.

You can question the system all you want. The system is always being tweaked to make it the best possible system to be used. It has come a long way and we are far removed from the old days when it was the old boys network at best. There are multiple ways to get into the tournament... the landscape is very transparent. It isn't like we get that many surprises each year.
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Offline spwood

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7747 on: March 01, 2018, 09:28:48 pm »
Also, let's not pretend the national tournament in any NCAA sport in any division is designed to get the best teams in the tournament. It isn't the best 64... it can't be when you use AQs for bids. It never was designed as such, it won't change. This isn't the pros... and even they don't get the best X amount of teams in their tournaments either.

You can question the system all you want. The system is always being tweaked to make it the best possible system to be used. It has come a long way and we are far removed from the old days when it was the old boys network at best. There are multiple ways to get into the tournament... the landscape is very transparent. It isn't like we get that many surprises each year.

Funny how Matt Webb has to annually make that same statement on d3hockey.com too!  Feels like some people don’t want to understand the process - just complain about it!

Offline middhoops

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7748 on: March 02, 2018, 08:52:30 am »
Middlebury coach Jeff Brown stated publicly (on Dave's show) that he'd welcome a double round robin.  Getting out of conference teams in the region to play has gotten to be too difficult.  Five teams dropped Middlebury from their schedule this year alone.  Three D3 teams in the tiny state of Vermont dropped Middlebury.
I agree with Toad; 16 league games makes a lot of sense.  Especially with a rotating schedule.

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7749 on: March 02, 2018, 09:40:21 am »
The MIAC, SKY and NACC all play 20 conference games. I realize the NESCAC only plays 24 regular season games, but maybe that can change. The MWC changed. I understand 20 conference games is a lot, but at least you'll never get the complaint, "But they only played them once and it was at home, we had to play them on the road. That's not fair!" Everyone plays everyone twice, home and away. Plus, you only have to schedule 4-5 games a year!
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 09:42:32 am by Greek Tragedy »
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Offline FCGrizzliesGrad

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7750 on: March 02, 2018, 09:40:47 am »
The NESCAC finally added a 9th game in football this past season so they now play a full round robin (10 teams)... they still do football in their own little bubble with no non-conference or postseason games but maybe that's a sign they'd consider adding a bit more conference games in basketball too.
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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7751 on: March 02, 2018, 01:33:05 pm »
There are multiple ways to get into the tournament... the landscape is very transparent. It isn't like we get that many surprises each year.
I'd say that once the SoS number is known the selections are transparent.  What's far less known is how they arrive at that number in the first place.  How many coaches know that if they schedule a home and home with team likely to be under .500, that their SoS will be higher in the year they play that team at home?

Offline iwumichigander

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7752 on: March 02, 2018, 05:12:47 pm »
There are multiple ways to get into the tournament... the landscape is very transparent. It isn't like we get that many surprises each year.
I'd say that once the SoS number is known the selections are transparent.  What's far less known is how they arrive at that number in the first place.  How many coaches know that if they schedule a home and home with team likely to be under .500, that their SoS will be higher in the year they play that team at home?
Any coach, or assistant for that matter, that has any NCAA tournament aspirations knows how the SOS works.  It is also a matter of geography, budget and level of competition.  Ask any of the perrinial top four teams from power conferences about how difficult it is to get a quality non-conference team to play you. 

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7753 on: March 02, 2018, 07:18:36 pm »
Pool C LeTU 85, Hanover 77.  Glad to see a competitive match and a justification of the committee's bid to LeTU even though the SOS  numbers did not look good.

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Re: Pool C
« Reply #7754 on: April 02, 2018, 12:17:00 pm »
Starting this up here, because I don't think there is a better thread to talk about national committee "things."

This upcoming off-season, we knew already that Tim Fitzpatrick (chair, AD at Coast Guard) and George Barber (Greenville HC) were rotating off the committee as their four-year terms had concluded. However, there is a third leaving. Ken Tyler (AD at Mary Washington) will no longer be the Eagle's AD (http://www.fredericksburg.com/sports/college/mary_washington/umw-parting-ways-with-athletic-director-tyler/article_578d329e-03e1-5d13-9a22-aa0b86f4022e.html).

So... three slots open for the men's committee. One person will serve a one-year term out of the Mid-Atlantic to complete Tyler's term (that individual is then eligible to serve a full four-year term to follow if interested and approved). The other two will represent the Northeast and the Central regions.

Two administrators are rotating off the committee. Last year's committee technically had seven administrators, but some had dual roles. Minimum, last season's committee had five of the eight members as admins (rules state there must be at least four). In theory, the nominating committee could put three coaches on the committee and things will be fine (though, I am not sure if an individual's "title" association can be adjusted each year or not for the make-up of the committee; I assume it can be).

Could be interesting this off-season to see who is appointed to the national committee... also, who might be chair. Tyler and Jarred Samples (Dallas HC, Asst. AD) where the rising four-year guys who seemed to be "in-line" for the job. That said, I am not sure Tyler was going to get the opportunity for a few reasons, most I can't share right now. Samples may be interested, but it is a time-swamp and he may not be interested in losing more time from his team (something, I could certainly respect). That means it could go to someone further down the totem pole, which would be a first for the committee since ... I'm not even sure the last time a fourth-year person wasn't the chair.

Just thought I'd share... and by sharing, it means I'm keeping track of things. :)
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