Author Topic: NESCAC MBB  (Read 1715223 times)

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12105 on: November 20, 2012, 04:48:43 pm »
Just caught the last 5 minutes of the Hamilton - Elmira game.  Hamilton pulled it out by 2 with a deep two pointer with just over 3 seconds left on the clock.  Elmira had a chance to tie with a guard going coast to coast and Hamilton choosing the matador defense, but alas the player was so excited to be open he took it all the way to the rim and time expired with the ball in his hand as he made the layup.  Had he pulled up from 10 ft even he easily would have gotten off a wide open shot. 

The most painful thing was listening to the announcer declare it was not a made basket because "it was not on it's downward arc when the buzzer went off." (!!!!!!)  I'm struggling to figure out how you would even come up with such a creative rule - confusing goaltending with buzzer beaters maybe???   But at least the refs made the correct call immediately despite the home crowd's protests. 

Offline nescac1

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12106 on: November 20, 2012, 04:51:51 pm »
madzilla, was Joseph Lin (Jeremy's little brother) out there for Hamilton?  I'm curious if he has any of Jeremy's game ...

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12107 on: November 20, 2012, 04:58:23 pm »
madzilla, was Joseph Lin (Jeremy's little brother) out there for Hamilton?  I'm curious if he has any of Jeremy's game ...

Honestly I wasn't paying that close attention to the names, I don't remember hearing his name in the last couple of minutes but that doesn't mean he wasn't on the floor.

Offline amh63

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12108 on: November 20, 2012, 05:33:01 pm »
nescac1.......I do not believe he was on the floor at the end of the game.  Caught the last 10minutes of the game when Hamilton came back to take a 6 point lead only to have the game tied with about 11 seconds to go and Hamilton with the ball. 
Guess, I am surfing the net like Madz, while awaiting Amherst's games.  May take in the Will. vs. Wes. game since Amherst's games will not have video feed.

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12109 on: November 20, 2012, 05:34:46 pm »
Next up... Trinity just started   http://www.trincoll.edu/livevideo/Pages/default.aspx

Offline nescac1

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12110 on: November 20, 2012, 08:54:51 pm »
Congrats to the Ephs, who will soon be joining the top 25 (presumably at Wesleyan's expense).  Well, so much for our prognostication.  Everything we thought the Ephs had to do to win, they failed to do: they shot poorly from three, shot poorly from the line, and the Ephs' two best offensive players, Nate Robertson and Michael Mayer, both struggled with foul trouble (especially Mayer, he has to be more careful, although two of his four fouls looked pretty bogus to me) and both had off days offensively.  So how on earth did the Ephs beat a solid Wesleyan team on the road?  A combination of some great back cuts to the basket in the first half which allowed the team to build a lead, just absolutely lock-down defense, and poor offensive play by Wesleyan.  No single player had a good offensive game for Williams.  Wide-open threes missed, tons of foul shots missed down the stretch, a lot of discombobulation and turnovers other than that one ten minute stretch of pretty basketball in the first half.  Credit to Wesleyan who played some great man-to-man defense, especially in the second half.  I was a bit mystified why the Ephs didn't try harder to feed Mayer in the post, but he was really out of synch due to the foul trouble, so perhaps that is why.

Several Ephs deserve plaudits for their defense.  Nate Robertson was absolutely awesome playing Sha Brown.  Sha got his points, but most were in transition or when Nate was out of the game, and Nate really made him work and forced several turnovers.  Derek Beresford had just a nightmarish game for Wesleyan, thanks in part to really hard work by James Klemm, but he also was just way, way off, even on the rare occasions when he was open.  Taylor Epley, who despite missing a few open threes was generally the Ephs' best offensive option tonight, just totally and completely shut down Mike Callaghan, really stellar work from him.  Daniel Wohl also played a solid game on both ends of the floor, yet again.  Finally, Sean Hoffmann was, once again, tremendous off the bench, doing a nice job finishing and adding a spark on defense. 

For Wesleyan, other than Sha Brown, who was dynamic as always, they just didn't have anyone play well at all on offense, it was basically the Sha show as they were very impatient and did not work hard enough to move the ball around.  Julian Harris was strong on the boards and tough on defense.  Frosh Brian Bartner is a player who will eventually be a big contributor.  Everyone else was just shut down by the Ephs' smothering defense.  (Wesleyan's usual starting center, who is not really an offensive threat in all events, did not play, must be injured). 

Kudos to Wesleyan for a great quality webcast, by the way, whatever technology they are using, other NESCAC schools should follow suit!  Great to see the Ephs with a gritty win like this.  The offense will only get better but I am very impressed by the early-season defense. 

Offline Bucket

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12111 on: November 20, 2012, 08:56:01 pm »
Middlebury runs past Green Mountain College, 117-81.

It was close for a half--GMC, all freshmen and sophomores, run and gun--but Panthers too much in the second half.

Lynch had his way--27 points, 11-12 from the field, 8 boards, 3 assists in 20 minutes of play.

No Joey Kizell--hope it's nothing serious.

Shout out to gunner Bert Nascimento: career-high 14 pts in 13 mins.

Everyone healthy plays. Double digit minutes for some freshmen. And those who played single-digit minutes made the most of them.

Short break then Panthers back in action Sunday against Plattsburgh.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 08:31:42 am by Bucket »

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12112 on: November 20, 2012, 09:17:12 pm »
Kudos to Wesleyan for a great quality webcast, by the way, whatever technology they are using, other NESCAC schools should follow suit!  Great to see the Ephs with a gritty win like this.  The offense will only get better but I am very impressed by the early-season defense.

Agree - great webcast with only minor glitches and of course the slowest scoreboard in history - but I'll take a great picture and slow scoreboard any day.  My one jab is for the student 'analyst' that predicted the 18 point win for Wes, I love that you are supporting your team but when you use the logic that they are going to win because they are bigger & stronger you might want to open your eyes.  I think that was actually the reason the Ephs were able to control this game throughout because they were bigger and stronger - not at the 4 & 5 but at the 1, 2, & 3.  When you have a 6'5 guy guarding a 5'10 guy, it helps make up for that quickness difference and allows him to sag a bit on the 3.  Like nescac1 mentioned, Brown got his points but the fact that Klemm & Wohl were able to stay home on the outside shooters was key to the win.  Wes missed a ton of shots in the key though so I expect a much better offensive game next time around for both teams. 

Nice building block for the Ephs early in the year and lots of things they know they need to work on to get better.

Offline toad22

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12113 on: November 21, 2012, 12:33:01 am »
I just got back from the Wes/Williams game. There was a lot of tension surrounding this game, and I think it affected the play negatively. It never developed much flow for either team, and it was very physical, with a lot of fouls. Mayer got 2 early fouls, sending him to the bench, and then two more early in H2, again putting him on the pine. Wesleyan was also in foul trouble, with two players fouling out late. It was a solid win for Williams, but the next meeting between these two is likely to play so differently, that I doubt that this game can be used as any kind of indicator of the outcome. Sean Hoffman, the senior back up center gets the game ball for Williams. 

Offline Panthernation

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12114 on: November 21, 2012, 12:34:52 am »
I was at the Green Mountain-Midd game, some more stuff to pass along:

-Final score was 117-81. Pete had 27 points on 11-12 shooting.

-Kizel's absence was nothing serious. He will be back soon.

-This game was uncomfortably close for most of the first half. Lynch had 14 of Midd's first 16 points, but GMC kept tight until 38-38 with 3:30 to go in the first half. Defense was the problem for Midd during this stretch. GM had a lot of athletic guys and Midd's defense struggled with that. Merryman is a great offensive player (14 points again tonight, 6-7 shooting, did all his damage from outside, best shooter on the team, maybe the conference), but needs to work on his defense. He was slow to react for much of the first half. Midd closed out the half up 48-41.

-The lead stretched from 7 to 27 in the first 8 minutes of the second half--Midd stepped up their defense and started to really push the tempo on offense. Wolfin's play was tremendous. Hands on everything on defense. On offense, dribbling through waves of defenders from all angles on fast breaks, passing/finishing with ease.

-Pendergast (freshman 6'3" point guard) can play. Bert had 14 points but I'm guessing Pendergast won his minutes and maybe some of Bulluck/Brierly's. One of the fastest players on the team, talented ball-handler, playmaker on offense and defense. On one fast break, he outran the first defender with the dribble, had 2-on-1, went up with the defender in front of him and dunked it over him. Wow. Needs to improve his shot, but he looks ready to start next season in Wolfin's place. All the freshmen played and looked good.

More on the blog (http://blogs.middlebury.edu/panthernation/)

Offline amh63

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12115 on: November 21, 2012, 11:25:44 am »
After a long day watching and following "CAC" games on video feed and Live Stats, I tried to recapture my impressions last night and blew it after I lost my post.  It was best that I did........today is a new day and I believe I have a clearer head.
I caught a bit or more of the Hamilton, Trinity, Williams/Wes. and Amherst (men and women) games and even looked a bit at the Midd. info.
Hamilton had a come from behind game with its "neighbor" Utica up the street and won a scrappy game.  Hamilton's new coach and young team will play tough but will not have a win over the upper tier teams in the conference this year, IMO.  Talent level is not there yet.
Saw Trinity lose to ECSU at home.  Good video feel.....like the one in Middletown.  The third year coach of Trinity is going to have a tough season with his young team of FY and Sophs.....only one upperclassman.  The team has quickness and some talent but no real front court size that I could see.
I agree with the William posters about the video feed of the game between Wes. and Williams in CT.  Multi-view shots....ground level and topside level with black-outs during the switching.  Seems the Cardinals is setting the pace in the conf. on video coverage....oh well, it is only money.  Have nothing to add about the game I watched in between following Amherst on Stats.....I guess I can still do a little "multi-tasking" at my age.  I will give my overall take of the game.  Williams and Wes. posters....do not take any offense in my remarks.  I was hoping to see the talent level of the players on the floor....to evaluate the teams at this point of the season so as to see if Amherst will have a chance to win against them this year.  It was hard....and to me last night, boring to watch.  It was choppy and had no flow.  The returning talent of both teams were not having a good night.  Beside a few good plays....like Nate Robertson blocking the ball of Wes.'s top player Brown during a drive to the basket.....or a shorter Wes. player preventing Mayer's from scoring down low after a nifty move....it was almost an unwatchable game for me.  I know, Williams outside game was not clicking and Wes. players were missing easy layups underneath.  Still, if it was NOT a game between the Cardinals and Ephs, I would have turned it off.  I could not tell if it was poor offense or good defense or a combination of both during the parts of the game that I followed.  In short, it was not a game for me to "scout out"  future opponents.
See that Midd. and Amherst both ended up with blow out games based on the scores  The write-up and the box are on the Amherst website for those interested.  Everyone that was dressed for Amherst played and everyone had at least 6 minutes of playing time.
What is interesting to me is that on a night that Aaron Toomey was off....scored 2 points. five players had double figure points.  The four other starters and C. Green.  Kalema, the back up PG did not score a point and the FY PG who played significant minutes with reserves had only 2 points.  Workman, Killian, Williamson and Green all shot well from outside.  The outside game/options seem to be coming around.  In the last 6 minutes or more, there was an Amherst team of the future on the floor...a 6'9" FY player that made the last 4 points and even took a 3-point shot..a 6'8" soph.. a 6'7" wide body FY.. a FY PG and a 6'3" sharp shooting guard.  The other two FYs..Pollack and Green had already got their minutes.   I know, WNE is a weak opponent....but it is good to let the reserves get game experience.
Had to correct my spelling of WNE.....it is now a university and has dropped  the C for college.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 11:49:36 am by amh63 »

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12116 on: November 21, 2012, 01:21:17 pm »
Amh63 - I think it was a combination of both good defense (especially on the Williams side) and bad offense (on both sides).  Williams got a lot of open looks but they didn't hit them, which is really what has happened for the first 3 games.  Despite putting up 81 & 91 in their first couple of games, they really didn't shoot the ball well.  The difference in those games is they were able to get out in transition and get some easy buckets and Wes really did a good job last night of preventing that. 

As for the defense though, I think that is really what is going to be the difference for the Ephs this year is even when they don't have a good offensive night they still should be able to win games because of their defense. So far this year they have been able to use their size and keep players in front of them with the exception of Brown and his dominating the ball last night played to their advantage I think. 

The one thing I was surprised about last night was Wes and their performance, keeping in mind I did not see them play last year so I don't have anything to compare it to.  My assumption going into the game was that because this was a senior-heavy team, that Wes would dictate the pace of the game and somewhat impose themselves on Williams drawing on that experience of being in so many big games before.  I did not see any of that last night.  Maybe it was an off night but they let seemed to allow Williams to take control early and never give it up.  There wasn't a whole lot of fire from those guys and I was surprised by that.  To me it came off like they were surprised that things were not coming easily and didn't quite know how to handle it.  The pregame show talk was about how Brown had changed his game this year to be more of a facilitator but then when they got behind it reverted to him being a one-man show.  It will be interesting to see when Wes starts playing the other top teams in the NESCAC if that continues to be the case or if they can have a more balanced attack.   

Offline nescac1

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12117 on: November 21, 2012, 01:43:02 pm »
Agree with madzillagd.  I'll note also that it is still very early in the year and offenses should improve as they get more rhythm, I mean, both teams have only had two weeks of practice.  When Williams made its big run in the second portion of the first half, they did play some really pretty offense for awhile, with tremendous ball movement, spacing, and cutting leading to a number of back-door layups (especially for Daniel Wohl, who with his length and coordination is a very effective finisher) and open threes.  Wesleyan had been a bit too aggressive, overplaying the man on defense, but they seemed to adjust in the second half, and Williams did not really counter-adjust, but I'd bet they will have something ready next time (and also, hopefully hit some more of the three point opportunities that opened up).  Also, Williams' offense was hurt by Mayer picking up the quick fourth foul in the second half.  The offense seems designed to run primarily through two guys, he and Robertson, and with Mayer forced out, then a bit tentative when he returned, the offense was really hurting.  As for Wesleyan, their offense really did not look good.  They seemed to rush a LOT of bad shots.  Really were frustrated by Williams' defense.  Williams does have basically the perfect personnel to play them ... a strong, quick, aggressive, low-center-of-gravity four to put on Callaghan, a group of long wings who can chase Beresford around and make him really work for shots, and Robertson, who is one of the few guys in NESCAC who can keep Sha Brown in front of him on most plays, and also presents problems with his big height advantage.  Wesleyan does not have a scoring threat at the five, which is their biggest weakness, and allowed the Eph bigs to cheat a bit and provide help.   Still, given their talent level and experience I can't imagine that Wesleyan will play that poorly again.   Julian Harris seems really talented and I'm not sure why he doesn't look to score more.  Albertus Magnus, who is a very athletic, talented team, will be a good test of whether the Williams game was an aberration, in Wesleyan's next game.   

Amherst's early results have been impressive (especially the improved shooting from Williamson, Workman, and Killian), but they've also played three teams that (1) are not good and (2) are particularly not good on the defensive end.  I'll reserve judgment on just HOW good Amherst is until they play a team that they don't, for example, out-size by an average of five inches per player ... Brandeis in a few weeks will be a very good barometer.  They have a transfer PG who got playing time for Boston College last year, should be a great match-up with Toomey.

Interesting that high school teammates Hunter Merryman and Daniel Wohl have been two of the break-out sophomores in NESCAC this year.  What's interesting is that, based on reputation, I thought that Merryman (a multi-sport athlete) would be more of an all-around athlete / defender / rebounder type guy, and Wohl more of a pure shooter, but those roles have been reversed.  Must have been a heck of a high school team ...

Offline amh63

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12118 on: November 21, 2012, 03:21:45 pm »
Thanks Madz and NESCAC 1 for the feedback.  I will remain stress out for the future "Little Three" contests.
Anyway, need to comment on the Grinnell game that has hit the news outlets.  A player scores 138 points in a game and stands 5'10".  This averages out to around 63 points/game over three games.  I did not score that many points in a 10 game season in a frat league in college playing PG....yes, we did very well...thank you.
I am aware that Grinnell's style is run and gun and never mind defense and often has 100 plus games.  It is a style of play that has been debated/questioned elsewhere and by more knowledgeable people.....though it has brought the coach and the school some positive publicity.  Still, what does it say about a coach that allows a player to take over 70 plus shots in a game!  Any team concept here?  That is the question that I like to put to this board.  Any takers?

Offline madzillagd

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Re: NESCAC MBB
« Reply #12119 on: November 21, 2012, 04:18:32 pm »
Sure - as I mentioned over on the Grinnell board, this was a team accomplishment and not just an individual accomplishment.  The entire team had a goal and all 20 guys that played worked together to accomplish that goal.  I'm not going to speak to whether it should have been a goal to begin with, but I do definitely recognize it as a team goal and not one of a rogue individual. 

A little background, my best friend happens to be married to Gary Smith's daughter and he lives nearby so I see him on occasion and talk hoops.  First thing I did last night when I saw this was email him about it. Gary coached at Redlands for 30 years and when he 'retired' he went over and was an assistant at Grinnell.  Now he's been helping high schools implement The System locally and he wrote a book about the system as well ( http://www.amazon.com/Coaching-System-complete-basketballs-explosive/dp/146113157X ).  So that being said I've probably had a bit more exposure to it than the average fan and what happened didn't surprise me at all.

One of things this system does is create team goals like this one where everyone is focused on accomplishing a task whether it is the scoring record, assist record, etc.  Now people may have a problem with what the goal is, but I don't think anyone would have problem with the concept of a team goal.  Last night's team goal for Wesleyan - don't let Williams get transition buckets.  Last night's team goal for Grinnell - get Jack the rock. Right?  Isn't it that simple? 

I feel like there are so many people that have a problem with the outcome of last night simply because they hate The System. To each his own, but to me it speaks more to people's ability to accept change and less about The System.  As I pointed out in the other thread, the 75 point win by Grinnell was not the largest margin of victory last night.  UW-Platteville beat a team by 85.  Both Grinnell & UW-P were up by 39 at halftime; UW-P outscored the other team by 46 in the 2nd half and Grinnell outscored their opponent by 36.  Yet when I looked this morning there was not a single post in the UW-P thread that was taking them to task about what they did and of course the entire world is coming down on Grinnell. 

From my perspective and knowing what I know about the system, this was definitely a team accomplishment.  Where most folks will focus on one guy taking all the shots, the reality is you had the ultimate team effort in getting that guy 108 shots.  Again, I'm not saying it was a great team goal; I'm just recognizing that it was a team goal.

For the folks that hate The System, do they not recognize how many truly awful teams that are out there?  What's the value of running a traditional system and going 5-18 every year?  Are coaches getting merit points for coaching bad teams 'the right way'.  I don't understand that mindset.  There's probably 50+ teams in D3 that should be running The System or something similar because playing 'traditional' basketball with subpar talent year in and year out doesn't make any sense.