Author Topic: D3 vs. NAIA  (Read 170413 times)

Offline Baldini

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #285 on: December 08, 2019, 10:15:06 am »
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.

Offline hazzben

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #286 on: December 08, 2019, 04:49:01 pm »
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.

 ::) ::)

Let me try again.

For a team like SJU, that has aspirations of playing deep into the postseason, it's wise to be cognizant of sheer the volume of Top 40ish caliber teams you'll play. Football is a brutally violent/physical sport and the potential of a 13+ game schedule is daunting. So again, look at the teams they played this year. Swapping out RH for UWP and UWS for UWO would be nonsensical given the teams they'll play in conference and in a post-season run.

Bearing that in mind, there are a number of teams that aren't picking up the phone when SJU calls (and they aren't the only ones that have this problem). This is just a fact. It's not "scheduling soft" to recognize a Top 15 opponent probably doesn't serve you given the quality of opponents you'll face in-conference. And then having a challenge when teams in the average to good category of D3 don't want to schedule you in return.

And yeah, the top teams in the MIAC don't want MAC back in. We are super annoyed at having to swap out UST for MAC. When/if MAC joins the conference, you'll probably see a shift in how teams schedule in the non-con.

It's not a "chronic bitch session." We were all super annoyed when MAC was allowed to weenie way out and dropped MIAC fb, but got to stay for their other sports. The schools with the will to compete are now doubly annoyed that weaker elements in the conference have conspired to boot UST, which will now mean we get stuck with MAC in their place. No top teams in the MIAC are ducking good competition. It's why we were all gnashing our teeth at the tossing of UST. 

Bottom line, in a MIAC that includes UST, you need to be mindful of the fact that the Top half of the MIAC will be a gauntlet and there are precious few Pool C bids, and a second loss is usually the kiss of death. In a Post-UST MIAC universe, there's more reason to schedule tougher. But we haven't been in that world to this point. So again, to your oblivious point in bold above, we'd rather have UST in the conference, and if they are, it will affect who you schedule in non-con. But now that we have to take the creampuff back, I'm sure playoff aspiring teams will adjust their non-con strategy.

Offline sjujohnnie

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #287 on: December 21, 2019, 11:00:45 pm »
Morningside just defeated Marian, 40-38 for their 2nd straight NAIA national championship title. Will be interesting to see if Ryan stays or leaves for Wheaton.

Offline TheChucker

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #288 on: December 23, 2019, 11:51:52 am »
If a review of the past 10 seasons tells us anything it is that St. John's is careful about keeping the non-conference schedule on the easier side. Which is certainly their right to do so if they prefer it that way.

That's not a fair assessment. First, SJU has a hard time getting teams to pick up the phone for non-con games. Second, playing in a tough league also means you probably don't want to go out and schedule Top 15 teams for non-con from a sheer attrition standpoint. Case in point, they will be playing their 14th game of the season next week, which will have involved a ton a good to really good d3 football teams (Wheaton, Chapman, Aurora, two WIAC teams, UST, Concordia, St. Olaf, GAC, and Bethel).

First off I am not claiming I would do anything different than St. John's already does, but I don't think it is an unfair assessment at all. Secondly, I am not buying this narrative that they can't get teams to pick up the phone for non-conference games either. The teams in the UMAC and some other lesser talented teams in other conferences don't return their calls because they don't want a 98-0 St. Scholastica seal clubbing that St. John's wants to lay on someone. But UW-LC, UW-O, UW-WW and UW-P all need games every year and end up traveling great distances to play very good teams, you really believe they won't pick up the phone if St. John's calls? There is a bunch of good NAIA schools that are in dire need of games every year and are fairly good fits for St. John's. Dickinson St. played UW-LC this season (and beat them), Valley City would be a great game for them, UW-WW played St. Xavier in a very good game and they also played Morningside a few years back which was noted earlier. Those are just a few examples of pages I could type here.

Again, I don't blame them for doing things the way they do. I think their is some good reasons to schedule strong and good reasons not to, but don't be surprised if someone calls BS on claims that they can't get anyone to schedule them. Or like the person claiming on the MIAC board that they didn't want Macalester back because they didn't want another 'creampuff' on the schedule.

So which is it, they need to schedule softer because of the 'attrition standpoint' or the schedule has too many 'creampuffs'? Because when people are claiming both it is just a chronic bitching session.

With the MIAC not getting a Pool C bid this year with two very good nationally relevant teams left out (St. Thomas and Bethel), and a decent Concordia team going into conference play with two D3 losses on their schedule from playing a really tough non-con (Whitewater and La Crosse), I don't think the trend will be towards playing a tougher non-conference slate. Quite the opposite actually. I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #289 on: December 23, 2019, 12:50:47 pm »
... I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.
My first thought is that you could end up with a record of 8-1 versus D3 teams instead of 9-1, having played an NAIA team in your 10th game.

Offline hazzben

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #290 on: December 23, 2019, 03:29:17 pm »
... I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee views wins and losses vs. NAIA teams, so maybe that's an option for non-conference play if those losses don't hold much weight.
My first thought is that you could end up with a record of 8-1 versus D3 teams instead of 9-1, having played an NAIA team in your 10th game.

Didn't seem to effect UWW this year.

Offline sjujohnnie

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #291 on: September 12, 2020, 09:36:43 pm »
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

Offline sjujohnnie

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #292 on: September 12, 2020, 10:12:11 pm »
Knotted up at 31 to start the 4th. Would love to see Morningside & Northwestern in the MIAC & a couple bottom dwellers kicked to the curb! Would love to see how St John's would match up!

Offline BLynn

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #293 on: September 21, 2020, 11:03:00 pm »
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

From your laptop to God's ear.  M'side won 45-31, but it was tied 31-all with 8 minutes left.  Seen my share of M'side-NWC games and this might be the best Northwestern team I've seen, (going back to 1977).  Their Qb got leg cramps thru out the game and missed a couple key plays (back-up fumbled at M'side 19). 

Loved the UWW-M'side series and would gladly see the Johnnies a time or two.

Offline hazzben

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Re: D3 vs. NAIA
« Reply #294 on: September 22, 2020, 05:04:56 pm »
Morningside leads Northwestern 24-21 early in the 3rd quarter. Likely Morningside's only competitive game this year.

From your laptop to God's ear.  M'side won 45-31, but it was tied 31-all with 8 minutes left.  Seen my share of M'side-NWC games and this might be the best Northwestern team I've seen, (going back to 1977).  Their Qb got leg cramps thru out the game and missed a couple key plays (back-up fumbled at M'side 19). 

Loved the UWW-M'side series and would gladly see the Johnnies a time or two.

Hard to imagine it's better than the 81 and 83 NWC teams. 83 in particular.