Author Topic: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  (Read 8772359 times)

Online TheChucker

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94035 on: September 14, 2019, 07:52:34 pm »
Warhawk vs. Cobber game close for most of the game until the Warhawks pull away late on a critical turnover and a balanced offense that has a good passing game. Both teams have top notch defenses, but the Warhawks have a very good balanced offense while the Cobbers continue to run an ancient obsolete offense. Horan was an All American wide receiver in a traditional play-action type offense, yet he continues to rely on the ancient wacky inefficent triple-option offense that can barely throw and good teams blow up. The Christopherson era alums are getting restless.

This Christopherson era alum is restless regarding the level of execution of the offense this season, but not necessarily overall. With the right guns and things clicking, the option attack can pose problems. I do agree that there needs to be more balance, though. There have been underutilized receivers with a lot of talent over the years. If the Cobbs canít pitch the ball without fumbling, it is going to be a long season. Defense is WAY ahead of the offense right now. Still...looking forward to conference play. Two tough weeks, but the team has grit.

Yes, the option scheme causes problems and will win games against inferior competition routinely, but it will never win championships against top national competition (except for one-offs of course) and there are three other national level competitors in the MIAC alone. I'm sure SJU, UST and Bethel all hope Horan never changes his beloved high school option offense that he brought from Breckenridge HS in 2001.

One MIAC championship and two playoff appearances since 2001 (the last in 2005 I think) are pathetic. The proof is in the puddin. The younger posters on this site probably have no idea that the Cobbers used to be a top team in the conference. I sure hope he reconsiders the offense because it seems like he's wasting some damn good talent. Horan is a good man all around, a very good recruiter, and all other aspects of his teams seem very sold. But yes, the alums are getting restless; or maybe completely apathetic is a better description.

Offline hazzben

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94036 on: September 14, 2019, 08:07:36 pm »
Larson gets the gameball for Bethel 197 yds rec & 3 TD's. A whole lotta YAC as well.

As for the Cobbers, I'm just glad he was running that offense when he had Zylstra at WR ;D

Offline OzJohnnie

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94037 on: September 14, 2019, 08:25:22 pm »
Well, the Johnnies had better sharpen up PDQ.  There are a few teams in the MIAC looking to play some good football.
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Offline Texas Ole

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94038 on: September 14, 2019, 10:27:27 pm »
Warhawk vs. Cobber game close for most of the game until the Warhawks pull away late on a critical turnover and a balanced offense that has a good passing game. Both teams have top notch defenses, but the Warhawks have a very good balanced offense while the Cobbers continue to run an ancient obsolete offense. Horan was an All American wide receiver in a traditional play-action type offense, yet he continues to rely on the ancient wacky inefficent triple-option offense that can barely throw and good teams blow up. The Christopherson era alums are getting restless.

This Christopherson era alum is restless regarding the level of execution of the offense this season, but not necessarily overall. With the right guns and things clicking, the option attack can pose problems. I do agree that there needs to be more balance, though. There have been underutilized receivers with a lot of talent over the years. If the Cobbs canít pitch the ball without fumbling, it is going to be a long season. Defense is WAY ahead of the offense right now. Still...looking forward to conference play. Two tough weeks, but the team has grit.

Yes, the option scheme causes problems and will win games against inferior competition routinely, but it will never win championships against top national competition (except for one-offs of course) and there are three other national level competitors in the MIAC alone. I'm sure SJU, UST and Bethel all hope Horan never changes his beloved high school option offense that he brought from Breckenridge HS in 2001.

One MIAC championship and two playoff appearances since 2001 (the last in 2005 I think) are pathetic. The proof is in the puddin. The younger posters on this site probably have no idea that the Cobbers used to be a top team in the conference. I sure hope he reconsiders the offense because it seems like he's wasting some damn good talent. Horan is a good man all around, a very good recruiter, and all other aspects of his teams seem very sold. But yes, the alums are getting restless; or maybe completely apathetic is a better description.

Option football can win.  You can ask several teams that ran it from the late 60s to the 90s.  The service academies do well with it.  It deals more with leverage and making good reads.  The QB is the key.  They have to be a good runner first who can occasionally throw, but the pre-snap reads are crucial.  I know a lot of people who want balance with the offense, but the option can be effective.  If you look through some old box scores during the options heyday you'll find schools with 400+ yards and no pass attempts.

The best way to stop the option is to let it cannibalize itself.  You have to hold your gaps and force the offense to commit first.  Play solid gap control and keep contain.  The option is meant to be played with a lead.  I love the option.  It is almost impossible to stop, but it also has its limitations.  There are a lot of fans and players who hate it. 

Offline stanbob

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94039 on: September 14, 2019, 11:10:32 pm »
The conference wasnít wrong to want Mac back in. They picked the wrong team to kick out though. The Augsburg and Hamline results the last two weeks should have them in immediate relegation status. What a total abomination.

The big 5 should have peeled away from the rest in football. They seem to have very little interest in getting better.

the "one" paved the way to their exit...
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94040 on: September 14, 2019, 11:17:40 pm »
Texas Ole: Love your term "cannibalize"; another good one would be "self-destruct."  But agree as you describe the best way to beat the option and the reasons for its use i.e. depending on the type of personnel a team has as you have also mentioned.

You mention many people (players and fans) hate the option and that is true. I liken that also to the old 5-2.  I love that defense, however, almost no one plays it any more.  But I do believe it could be successful against the wide-open offenses that everyone is using now (the latter of which is not really new because much of that was actually started back in the 1990s.) 
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Online TheChucker

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94041 on: September 14, 2019, 11:53:45 pm »
Warhawk vs. Cobber game close for most of the game until the Warhawks pull away late on a critical turnover and a balanced offense that has a good passing game. Both teams have top notch defenses, but the Warhawks have a very good balanced offense while the Cobbers continue to run an ancient obsolete offense. Horan was an All American wide receiver in a traditional play-action type offense, yet he continues to rely on the ancient wacky inefficent triple-option offense that can barely throw and good teams blow up. The Christopherson era alums are getting restless.

This Christopherson era alum is restless regarding the level of execution of the offense this season, but not necessarily overall. With the right guns and things clicking, the option attack can pose problems. I do agree that there needs to be more balance, though. There have been underutilized receivers with a lot of talent over the years. If the Cobbs canít pitch the ball without fumbling, it is going to be a long season. Defense is WAY ahead of the offense right now. Still...looking forward to conference play. Two tough weeks, but the team has grit.

Yes, the option scheme causes problems and will win games against inferior competition routinely, but it will never win championships against top national competition (except for one-offs of course) and there are three other national level competitors in the MIAC alone. I'm sure SJU, UST and Bethel all hope Horan never changes his beloved high school option offense that he brought from Breckenridge HS in 2001.

One MIAC championship and two playoff appearances since 2001 (the last in 2005 I think) are pathetic. The proof is in the puddin. The younger posters on this site probably have no idea that the Cobbers used to be a top team in the conference. I sure hope he reconsiders the offense because it seems like he's wasting some damn good talent. Horan is a good man all around, a very good recruiter, and all other aspects of his teams seem very sold. But yes, the alums are getting restless; or maybe completely apathetic is a better description.

Option football can win.  You can ask several teams that ran it from the late 60s to the 90s.  The service academies do well with it.  It deals more with leverage and making good reads.  The QB is the key.  They have to be a good runner first who can occasionally throw, but the pre-snap reads are crucial.  I know a lot of people who want balance with the offense, but the option can be effective.  If you look through some old box scores during the options heyday you'll find schools with 400+ yards and no pass attempts.

The best way to stop the option is to let it cannibalize itself.  You have to hold your gaps and force the offense to commit first.  Play solid gap control and keep contain.  The option is meant to be played with a lead.  I love the option.  It is almost impossible to stop, but it also has its limitations.  There are a lot of fans and players who hate it.

Yes, the service acadamies run it well; partly because it's very unique nowdays and that helps make up for their physical disadvantages. I love watching those games. But when's the last time you've seen a college team at any level win a championship with that offense?

The Cobber offense, from what I've seen, depends on the quarterback read and/or pitch man beating the outside edges of the defense. So that means beating the defensive end, outside linebackers and D backs playing up. With most teams that works just fine. But elite teams (like the top of the WIAC, USJ, UST, Bethel, etc.) have athleticism on the edges of the defense that blow up those outside reads and pitches to smithereens. La Crosse and Whitewater proved that concept. If the Cobs get down by a few scores, it's game over. If balanced offense teams like SJU get down, they have the ability to still pull it out. The SJU quarterfinal vs. UMHB last year showed that.

That said, Horan assembled a team with pretty good talent and they should be tough this year. I hope they pull it together for conference play.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 11:55:49 pm by TheChucker »

Offline OzJohnnie

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94042 on: September 15, 2019, 04:04:20 pm »
So I'm watching the Vikings against the Packers as I get ready for an early morning flight to Sydney.  And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, the Vikes look ok.  I'm suspicious."  Sure enough, just as my suspicion starts to fall Cousins throws a 25-yard floater off the back foot which the Pack easily intercept in the end zone.

$27m a year for 25-yard back foot floaters to lose the game.  Never change, Vikings.
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Offline BlueDevil Bob

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94043 on: September 15, 2019, 05:50:53 pm »
Trade him to the Redskins for Case Keenum.   ;D

Offline retagent

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94044 on: September 15, 2019, 06:45:18 pm »
So I'm watching the Vikings against the Packers as I get ready for an early morning flight to Sydney.  And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, the Vikes look ok.  I'm suspicious."  Sure enough, just as my suspicion starts to fall Cousins throws a 25-yard floater off the back foot which the Pack easily intercept in the end zone.

$27m a year for 25-yard back foot floaters to lose the game.  Never change, Vikings.

That officiating crew was a joke as well. The Vikings got called for 3 years worth of offensive interference penalties in one game. Even the announce crew was a bit stunned, as well as their Rules guy.

Offline faunch

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94045 on: September 15, 2019, 07:10:06 pm »
So I'm watching the Vikings against the Packers as I get ready for an early morning flight to Sydney.  And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, the Vikes look ok.  I'm suspicious."  Sure enough, just as my suspicion starts to fall Cousins throws a 25-yard floater off the back foot which the Pack easily intercept in the end zone.

$27m a year for 25-yard back foot floaters to lose the game.  Never change, Vikings.

That officiating crew was a joke as well. The Vikings got called for 3 years worth of offensive interference penalties in one game. Even the announce crew was a bit stunned, as well as their Rules guy.
overturning touchdowns because of a penalty found on a replay review is a joke. Why not review every play?


                   

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94046 on: September 15, 2019, 07:12:34 pm »
So I'm watching the Vikings against the Packers as I get ready for an early morning flight to Sydney.  And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, the Vikes look ok.  I'm suspicious."  Sure enough, just as my suspicion starts to fall Cousins throws a 25-yard floater off the back foot which the Pack easily intercept in the end zone.

$27m a year for 25-yard back foot floaters to lose the game.  Never change, Vikings.

That officiating crew was a joke as well. The Vikings got called for 3 years worth of offensive interference penalties in one game. Even the announce crew was a bit stunned, as well as their Rules guy.
overturning touchdowns because of a penalty found on a replay review is a joke. Why not review every play?


In college, they do review every play -- they just don't have to stop the game on all of them, so fans don't realize.
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Offline faunch

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94047 on: September 15, 2019, 07:39:07 pm »
So I'm watching the Vikings against the Packers as I get ready for an early morning flight to Sydney.  And I'm thinking to myself, "Man, the Vikes look ok.  I'm suspicious."  Sure enough, just as my suspicion starts to fall Cousins throws a 25-yard floater off the back foot which the Pack easily intercept in the end zone.

$27m a year for 25-yard back foot floaters to lose the game.  Never change, Vikings.



That officiating crew was a joke as well. The Vikings got called for 3 years worth of offensive interference penalties in one game. Even the announce crew was a bit stunned, as well as their Rules guy.
overturning touchdowns because of a penalty found on a replay review is a joke. Why not review every play?


In college, they do review every play -- they just don't have to stop the game on all of them, so fans don't realize.
So they review them all and could call a penalty that was missed? Then why have officials? Why not just have rule facilitators on the field and make all calls from above?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 07:42:15 pm by faunch »


                   

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Offline Texas Ole

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94048 on: September 15, 2019, 08:35:34 pm »
Texas Ole: Love your term "cannibalize"; another good one would be "self-destruct."  But agree as you describe the best way to beat the option and the reasons for its use i.e. depending on the type of personnel a team has as you have also mentioned.

You mention many people (players and fans) hate the option and that is true. I liken that also to the old 5-2.  I love that defense, however, almost no one plays it any more.  But I do believe it could be successful against the wide-open offenses that everyone is using now (the latter of which is not really new because much of that was actually started back in the 1990s.) 


The old 50 D.  That's what I played in high school.  We occasionally ran it so it could resemble a 3-4 or a 4-3.  It was pretty ineffective against the pass.  I have started seeing teams run a 4-2-5 or 3-3 against the new high octane offenses.  Many teams are moving almost to an exclusive nickel package.  I think I read a stat where last year in the NFL nickel defenses were run over 50% of the time.  I think many coaches are accepting that these games are going to be shootouts regardless.  I always appreciate the Cotton Bowl from a few years ago where MSU just pounded the ball and wore the opponents defense down to nothing.  (I refuse to name that school in Texas)



Yes, the service acadamies run it well; partly because it's very unique nowdays and that helps make up for their physical disadvantages. I love watching those games. But when's the last time you've seen a college team at any level win a championship with that offense?


Navy a few years ago had a great team running it a few years ago.  They were being considered for a NY6 Bowl.  Overall the offense is designed to be effective for a team that is undersized or maybe less athletic against better teams.  Run properly it is almost impossible to stop.  It's a hard offense to recruit.  Who wants to play receiver in it?  How many running backs want to be blockers regularly?  How many QBs want to get hit all the time?

The modern spread high octane offenses you see a lot schools running actually take many characteristics of the old wishbone.  Many of the reads are made at the line of scrimmage with multiple route options.  The field for some teams is actually cut in half so the QB only has to read one side of the field.  The idea is to take what the defense gives you rather than trying to force your offense on the defense.

Offline OzJohnnie

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #94049 on: September 15, 2019, 10:07:20 pm »
The top 25 is out.  https://www.d3football.com/top25/2019/week2

The Johnnies remain in 4th.
The Tommies remain in 6th.
The Royals move up to 9th.

The Gusties received six votes.
The Cobbers's cupboard is empty but I reckon they are just a couple forward passes away from a top 20 spot.

The MIAC will be a bloodbath.
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