Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gray Fox]

WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0
4. Central 9-0 9-0
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1
7. Coe 7-1 7-1
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1

...Lutheran and Redlands have a showdown coming up in two weeks for a berth so one of those teams will be out...

If Redlands beats CLU,  CLU will get the SCIAC bid due to the SCIAC's  "Rose Bowl Rule".  So Redlands could stiill get in as a one loss team.

[sju56321]

Maybe-but in this economy would the NCAA set up two possible flights in the first round-and second round? If one of those teams moved South that might be possible.

Remember that the Nathcon has an auto bid, so it is possible that if CC of WI wins, they would be the 8th seeded team in the "West," especially if UWW or maybe Monmouth moves "North."

[Touchdown Tommy]

TC: Can you translate Zip's last post?  TDT's head is spinning...

Thanks much,

The President

[hazzben]

I completely agree that coaching is much more difficult than people usually give credit for.  I'll do this in two parts:

Part one, and this is my ranking of both their coaching ability and later what I call coaching judgement.  I would say the top half are this, in no particular order....
Bethel (no doubt one of the top coaches)
SJU (I don't even know who is coaching them now but whoever it is they are pretty good)
Carleton (are you surprised?)
UST (still don't like the guy)

Fringe guys:
Auggie Tech (I like their offense because it is so much scheme. They get some very raw talent and their coach does a good job in his offensive scheme, but I won't put him in the top half because I want to kick their receivers in the pants every time I watch them run their routes...If you haven't seen, it's 5 yards, then if they didn't get the ball, start jogging.)
CCM (this one might get me in trouble)

Bottom:
St Olaf (I think he'll learn eventually, but I am a little unimpressed so far)
Gustavus (he's young, I don't really know much about his gameplans, they're pretty bad right now, but this will have to wait a few years)
Hamline (its Hamline)

Part two (and this is difficult to explain):
I was in no way trying to insinuate that I know more about the game of football than these coaches.  They have all gained knowledge of the game over many years of working under head coaches and in different systems.

I was more going for that I think some of the guys are not the brightest bulbs when it comes to parts of their football judgement.  I'm trying to think of examples that I can give without starting a wildfire, but this is a good one: Meidt.  I know he's not here anymore, but when he was, I wouldn't have listened to a word come out of his mouth about a player on a different team.  Another example: I talked to someone that was at the UofM proday last year, and Hamline had a player there.  Apparently Hamline has a coach that has connections to the U of M.  The person said the player was not very good and looked like he didn't belong there.  I think that's bad judgement by the coach and makes the MIAC look bad.

So, I guess coaching "judgement" is what I was trying to get at.  I would not put my football knowledge up against ANY head coach in the MIAC.

First, thanks for humbly clarifying what you meant by judgment and noting your respect for the difficulty of coaching.  

I love this kind of stuff, so here's my take (and other posters, weigh in with your own, this is what makes the board fun):

Note - my rankings aren't solely on wins & losses, but on who I think schemes the best and gets the most out of their players.

Top Coaches (no particular order):
SJU (Gags is a no brainer, no matter what his role is, Fasching and Haugen always put together an excellent D)
Bethel (Johns turned around the MIAC's worst program.  Peterson, Miller and Fregeau are unsung heros for BU's success)
UST (I can't stand him either, but he turned them around awfully quickly.  I'd like to see how he'd do with real non-con opponents though)
Carleton (Ramler has done a pretty great job there...the real question, does he stay after Gags dies/retires?)
Cobbers (The only time they seem to miss a beat is when they have an unreliable qb, which in their offense is everything)

Fringe:
STO (there was a major talent drain after Meidt left, but an immediate upgrade in their D...more time will)
Augsburg (No question he can coach an offense...can he hire a D coordinator?!?)
SJU-2 (Jimmy G - with all those players, the offense just has not impressed recently...and he will always fight the impression of Nepotism)

Bottom:
Hamline (although they are much more competitive than in the past)
GAC (nothing to garner putting him higher, but still too early to tell how good he might be)

Cellar:
Mac (3-0 loss last week to the worst the UMAC has to offer says it all)

[hazzben]

WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0
4. Central 9-0 9-0
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1
7. Coe 7-1 7-1
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1

Well they are getting closer to getting it right...IMO it should be Whitewater and then the undefeated threesome of SJU, Linfield and Central in any order, followed by the one loss teams in any order...Lutheran and Redlands have a showdown coming up in two weeks for a berth so one of those teams will be out...and wow, St. Norbert making a case to be in the playoffs...I doubt the MWC has ever had two teams in the playoffs but the carnage that is the WIAC after WW has opened a door. 

Here is an interesting question...Bethel beats UST in a 3 point game or in OT and both finish 8-2.  Are they both out...is Bethel in or could both get in because of who they lost to and how they lost?

Agreed that they are getting closer.  I think Whitewater is number 1 by the time it's all done.  My prediction is that its SJU, then Central, then Linfield in the final ranking.  Although 1st round flights could make everything crazy.

St. Norbert ranked 10 scares me as Bethel fan.  We need to win this weekend for it to matter, but it will be interesting to see version 3 of the rankings if Bethel does win.

IMO, there is no way both UST and Bethel get in with two losses, even if it was a 5 OT loss for UST.  I just can't see any conference not named the OAC or WIAC getting 3 teams, 2 of which have 2 losses.  At this point, I think a 2 loss Bethel is going to need a lot of help to get in.  We need some serious carnage in the other regions.  The biggest help would be if BV beat Coe and SNC somehow slipped up in the final weeks.  As it stands right now, there are a lost of 1 loss teams that will play each other in the final weeks, but we still need a couple 1 loss teams to lose some unexpected games.  It will be interesting...

[Pat Coleman]

Maybe-but in this economy would the NCAA set up two possible flights in the first round-and second round? If one of those teams moved South that might be possible.

Remember that the Nathcon has an auto bid, so it is possible that if CC of WI wins, they would be the 8th seeded team in the "West," especially if UWW or maybe Monmouth moves "North."

We may end up with three deep south teams, Huntingdon, Mississippi College and Mary Hardin-Baylor. Either one of the other two could play Mississippi College but the third might be forced to fly somewhere.

[cobbernation]

So WCCO TV just did a blip on Tim Cornish a db from bethel.  I didn't listen to much of the interview, just kept laughing about how bethel has only 4 miac championships and they are screen printed on their practice jerseys.

[TC]

So WCCO TV just did a blip on Tim Cornish a db from bethel.  I didn't listen to much of the interview, just kept laughing about how bethel has only 4 miac championships and they are screen printed on their practice jerseys.

OMG--WCCO IS IN ON THE CORNISH CONSPIRACY!!!!!

[stanbob]

So WCCO TV just did a blip on Tim Cornish a db from bethel.  I didn't listen to much of the interview, just kept laughing about how bethel has only 4 miac championships and they are screen printed on their practice jerseys.

OMG--WCCO IS IN ON THE CORNISH CONSPIRACY!!!!!

Further proof that the media has a severe left slant to it 

[DutchFan2004]

Maybe-but in this economy would the NCAA set up two possible flights in the first round-and second round? If one of those teams moved South that might be possible.

Remember that the Nathcon has an auto bid, so it is possible that if CC of WI wins, they would be the 8th seeded team in the "West," especially if UWW or maybe Monmouth moves "North."

We may end up with three deep south teams, Huntingdon, Mississippi College and Mary Hardin-Baylor. Either one of the other two could play Mississippi College but the third might be forced to fly somewhere.

If that happens they could go to Linfield and the SCIAC could have a rematch first round as I have posted before.  That would save the NCAA lots of money as they only have one first round flight and the winner of the game at Linfield would play the Cali winner so there is only one flight second round. 

[OzJohnnie]

On the Regional Rankings: the real crime of the committee's abrogation of responsibility in the West is that it eliminates the need for the committee itself.  If all they are going to do is follow a rote procedure, then what good are they?  Give the job to some freshman student worker and let him maintain a spreadsheet.  This is as bad as BCS in concept and execution.  Apparently, the position and eligibility of teams for the play-offs comes down to a craps shoot made on non-conference scheduling made years in advance.  The good news?  Northwestern may get their shot to play the johnnies after all.

I wonder which of the committee bozos sat in that first meeting this year arguing they should follow this procedure to eliminate all perception of bias.  Unfortunately, it also eliminated all evidence of competency.  Whoever the bozo was, they seem to have forgotten that they were selected specifically because of their professional (and fair) bias as to judging the relative talents of closely ranked teams.  I bet the dessenters from the 'scientific' are feeling pretty hot right now as they look like doofuses.  I guess we don't need them at all next week now.  We can figure out the rankings ourselves at about sundown Sunday night in California.

Lame.   

[CobberFvr]

WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0
4. Central 9-0 9-0
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1
7. Coe 7-1 7-1
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1


Well they are getting closer to getting it right...IMO it should be Whitewater and then the undefeated threesome of SJU, Linfield and Central in any order, followed by the one loss teams in any order...Lutheran and Redlands have a showdown coming up in two weeks for a berth so one of those teams will be out...and wow, St. Norbert making a case to be in the playoffs...I doubt the MWC has ever had two teams in the playoffs but the carnage that is the WIAC after WW has opened a door.  

Here is an interesting question...Bethel beats UST in a 3 point game or in OT and both finish 8-2.  Are they both out...is Bethel in or could both get in because of who they lost to and how they lost?

Anyway you look at it, Johnnies just need to take care of the next two games and hope that RF and EC win this week in the WIAC and then let chips fall where they may...

No offense to the SJU faithful, but the Johnnies are not better than Whitewater. And that will be proven. I think it should look something like...

1. UW-W
2. SJU
3. Linfield
etc...

[OzJohnnie]

I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that UWW is the number one seeded team, even above MUC, in terms of region seeds.

As a professional committee the performance of the Westies is simply undefendable.  And the effect of this desertion of responsibility is unpredictable.  The brackets committee (whatever they are called) potentially hold tgis regional guidance in the same contempt we do, the result being they disregard it.  Or potentially worse, they feel a sense of loyalty to the no-show committee and follow their 'recommendations' thereby keeping UWW in the West, rather than feeling free to move them into another region as a number one seed.

Disgraceful.

[DutchHawk]

WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0
4. Central 9-0 9-0
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1
7. Coe 7-1 7-1
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1


Well they are getting closer to getting it right...IMO it should be Whitewater and then the undefeated threesome of SJU, Linfield and Central in any order, followed by the one loss teams in any order...Lutheran and Redlands have a showdown coming up in two weeks for a berth so one of those teams will be out...and wow, St. Norbert making a case to be in the playoffs...I doubt the MWC has ever had two teams in the playoffs but the carnage that is the WIAC after WW has opened a door.  

Here is an interesting question...Bethel beats UST in a 3 point game or in OT and both finish 8-2.  Are they both out...is Bethel in or could both get in because of who they lost to and how they lost?

Anyway you look at it, Johnnies just need to take care of the next two games and hope that RF and EC win this week in the WIAC and then let chips fall where they may...

No offense to the SJU faithful, but the Johnnies are not better than Whitewater. And that will be proven. I think it should look something like...

1. UW-W
2. Central
3. SJU/Linfield
etc...

Fixed it for you

[TC]

No offense to the SJU faithful, but the Johnnies are not better than Whitewater. And that will be proven. I think it should look something like...

1. UW-W
2. SJU
3. Linfield
etc...

In defense of the SJU faithful, I don't think anyone actually believes SJU is better than UW-W/should be ranked above UW-W.  As OzJohnnie points out, it's pretty mysterious that the committee refuses to rank UW-Whitewater first in the region.  Personally, I can't believe that when the dust settles, St. John's will be seeded higher than an undefeated UW-Whitewater in the West.