Poll

What Conference will St. Thomas go to next?

Summit
2 (2.7%)
Poineer
10 (13.5%)
NSIC
19 (25.7%)
WIAC
40 (54.1%)
ARC
3 (4.1%)

Total Members Voted: 74

Voting closes: June 05, 2019, 04:22:03 pm

Author Topic: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  (Read 8301087 times)

Offline hazzben

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4007
  • Karma: +1006/-349
  • "I'm your huckleberry"
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92430 on: May 16, 2019, 04:26:21 pm »
The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Tommie/Johnnie would survive as well, but in a diminished capacity.

My money is still on a painful move up a division or two.

Offline WW

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +22/-15
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92431 on: May 16, 2019, 04:48:42 pm »
I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

Offline jamtoTommie

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1670
  • Karma: +296/-210
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92432 on: May 16, 2019, 04:56:10 pm »
I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

Does the recruiting competition outpace the expanded reach for those WIAC schools? I'm not sure how much they have for inroads into the Twin Cities market already (several do, especially Stout and EC I think).

Offline GoldandBlueBU

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1516
  • Karma: +457/-173
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92433 on: May 16, 2019, 04:56:29 pm »
How would travel to the WIAC compare to the NSIC?

WW and Oshkosh are both over 4.5 hrs from UST, Stevens pt at 3.5...not so bad for football, but for other sports that adds up.


Offline WW

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +22/-15
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92434 on: May 16, 2019, 05:37:01 pm »
I don't know whether to take the WIAC guy at his word or not. Does Stout, LC, EC or especially RF really want more recruitment competition on the western front, now coming from within the league? UST just doesn't seem to fit.

Does the recruiting competition outpace the expanded reach for those WIAC schools? I'm not sure how much they have for inroads into the Twin Cities market already (several do, especially Stout and EC I think).

They already recruit heavily in TC. A quick count of the UWRF football roster shows 46 Minnesotans, so at a glance, I don't think adding UST will expand their reach beyond what they already try to grab. And the common complaint from the western part of Wisconsin is that they lose all the local quality kids to nearby D2s that don't exist around Whitewater or Oshkosh. UST would seem to provide a private D3 opportunity for western Wisconsin kids who want family too see them play along with private school benefits. Not sure how many kids that would affect, but seems to me it would draw a few more out of the UW system than it would draw in.

Offline Gregory Sager

  • Hall of Fame
  • All-American
  • ********
  • Posts: 22408
  • Karma: +2564/-807
  • North Park Vikings: Nat'l champs, 1978-79-80-85-87
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92435 on: May 16, 2019, 05:52:06 pm »
The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Good point.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline gbpuckfan

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +56/-15
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92436 on: May 16, 2019, 09:16:01 pm »
I don't know if it is a realistic option, but I'd welcome St. Thomas to the WIAC. From a football standpoint it would help scheduling a lot. It would help on the hockey front too. I wish Oshkosh would add hockey, but that's not going to happen.
Add UST and one more and you have the AQ status for hockey. Stevens Point looked dominant this year wow.

Northland leaves the NCHA for the WIAC this fall in hockey


https://wiacsports.com/news/2018/4/5/wiac-announces-addition-of-northland-college-for-mens-and-womens-ice-hockey.aspx

St. Norbert College Green Knights
NCAA D3 Hockey National Champions 2008, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2018
Midwest Conf. football champs: 85, 87, 88, 89, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 06, 07, 10, 12, 13, 15, 18

Offline OldAuggie

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1017
  • Karma: +371/-29
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92437 on: May 16, 2019, 10:17:14 pm »
I don't know if it is a realistic option, but I'd welcome St. Thomas to the WIAC. From a football standpoint it would help scheduling a lot. It would help on the hockey front too. I wish Oshkosh would add hockey, but that's not going to happen.
Add UST and one more and you have the AQ status for hockey. Stevens Point looked dominant this year wow.

Northland leaves the NCHA for the WIAC this fall in hockey


https://wiacsports.com/news/2018/4/5/wiac-announces-addition-of-northland-college-for-mens-and-womens-ice-hockey.aspx
Forgot about that! If UST joins the conference, the WIAC gains the AQ in hockey, adds a good athletic program and Augsburg and UST can continue to build thier hockey rivalry. Maybe. 

Offline retagent

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3230
  • Karma: +1745/-1031
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92438 on: May 17, 2019, 08:19:08 am »
My take is that those recruited by WIAC schools in MN are from a bit different pool than those recruited by MIAC schools. Private, high cost college vs Public, lower cost schools. I also think, as I've stated before, St Thomas would like to keep its niche as an academically more elite college than a public college, whose mission is to educate a larger more diverse group. Without looking closely, I would also guess that WIAC colleges have a wider choice of majors than does UST and other MIAC schools.

Offline wally_wabash

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 10378
  • Karma: +1838/-1163
    • View Profile
    • Wally on the Twitter
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92439 on: May 17, 2019, 10:58:29 am »
The irony is if UST goes to the WIAC, it only solves a problem for the well endowed schools who were struggling to compete on the field. For schools whose reason for TomToss was enrollment related, UST will still be in MN and would still be a D3 school.

Tommie/Johnnie would survive as well, but in a diminished capacity.

My money is still on a painful move up a division or two.

Diminished?  I don't know.  It kind of depends on how the programs and fan bases react to the teams being in different leagues.  When DePauw left the ICAC after the 1997 season to join the SCAC, obviously the Monon Bell game continued on, but it was different.  Attendance remained high, helped in great part by Wabash entering a golden age for the program beginning about 2001 and DePauw momentarily becoming a playoff level team in the late 2000s- BUT, the games were definitely different.  I can't speak for everybody, but for me it definitely felt like a lot of the years between 1998 and 2012 (when DePauw joined the NCAC and reunited in a conference with Wabash) the game was a backdrop for a large reunion event.  Not that that is a bad thing (some of my favorite days during those years were reuniting with old friends and classmates at early morning Monon Bell tailgates), but the game itself felt kind of exhibitiony a lot of the time.  Now that the teams are back in a league together and both teams are pretty good (capable of contending for league championships at least), there's a little more juice back into what actually happens on the field. 

So Johnnie-Tommie can certainly survive a UST move to the WIAC and even be the attendance juggernaut that it has been, but it'll probably feel different.  Not bad, just different. 
"Nothing in the world is more expensive than free."- The Deacon of HBO's The Wire

“The O line has proven they can block some of the best in the conference and I can't wait to see what they do on Saturday." Matt Hunt, DePauw Quarterback, Sacked 5 times in the 121st Monon Bell Classic

Offline TheChucker

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Karma: +12/-14
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92440 on: May 17, 2019, 11:15:25 am »
Yes, with UST hypothetically in the WIAC, the Tommie/Johnnie game would be diminished from its level over the past decade. Along with its long history, that game has recently been a key to deciding the MIAC champion (since Caruso) thus increasing its popularity. Without the conference title on the line, it could be a glorified exhibition game. Still important to fans, but not as important as now.

For all you older SJU & UST alums, was the game anywhere near that big of a deal in the 1990s and before when UST wasn't vying for the title? From my perch in Moorhead in the 1980s, it didn't seem as big as now (when UST wasn't the perennial contender and SJU was) ...but I wasn't personally involved.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 11:59:33 am by TheChucker »

Offline WW

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Karma: +22/-15
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92441 on: May 17, 2019, 11:17:11 am »
My take is that those recruited by WIAC schools in MN are from a bit different pool than those recruited by MIAC schools. Private, high cost college vs Public, lower cost schools. I also think, as I've stated before, St Thomas would like to keep its niche as an academically more elite college than a public college, whose mission is to educate a larger more diverse group. Without looking closely, I would also guess that WIAC colleges have a wider choice of majors than does UST and other MIAC schools.

Yeah, they're just different. I don't see it happening. Besides, WIAC has long functioned as a brand extension of the UW education system as a whole, not just a cluster of sports teams. There would be multi-level resistance.

Offline SaintsFAN

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 6093
  • Karma: +821/-169
  • Ron Mexico
    • View Profile
    • Thomas More Football
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92442 on: May 17, 2019, 11:26:16 am »
Pat Coleman makes the Star Tribune!
http://www.startribune.com/if-miac-drops-st-thomas-the-tommies-options-are-complicated/509992312/

I've met that guy before... still have his autograph on a Wheaties cereal box.
AMC Champs: 1991-1992-1993-1994-1995
HCAC Champs: 2000, 2001
PAC Champs:  2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016
Bridge Bowl Champs:  1990-1991-1992-1993-1994-1995-2002-2003-2006-2008-2009-2010-2011-2012-2013 (SERIES OVER)
Undefeated: 1991, 1995, 2001, 2009, 2010, 2015
Instances where MSJ quit the Bridge Bowl:  2

Offline miac952

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 615
  • Karma: +200/-103
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92443 on: May 17, 2019, 11:29:22 am »
I really don't see the WIAC happening. Way too many differences in strut

I have nothing to base this on, but I suspect the reason the whole vote was squashed in April was for UST to get their ducks in a row and set a glide path out of the MIAC. There probably had been some planning on it previously, but unlikely that they were ready to move so soon. I would anticipate this to be a lengthy departure (2 -4 years). If the MIAC isn't willing to do that, the school Presidents in the C.O.L may find themselves in a court tussle. Taking Auggie's (not the C.O.L Augie) spot in the NSIC seems most probable if there were odds on this thing.

Offline DuffMan

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8147
  • Karma: +3866/-1408
    • View Profile
Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #92444 on: May 17, 2019, 11:39:06 am »
For all you older SJU & UST alums, was the game anywhere near that big of a deal in the 1990s and before when UST wasn't vying for the title? From my perch in Moorhead in the 1980s, it didn't seem as big as now (when UST wasn't the perennial contender and SJU was) ...but I wasn't personally involved.

I played from '99 - '02.  It was still a big game, but moreso for the fans.  In those years, we were always most hyped for Bethel and Concordia.

A tradition unrivaled...
MIAC Champions:  1932, 1935, 1936, 1938, 1953, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1971, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, 1989, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2014, 2018
National Champions:  1963, 1965, 1976, 2003