Author Topic: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference  (Read 10494938 times)

Offline jamtod

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99780 on: July 17, 2020, 05:01:15 pm »
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men’s tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women’s Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

What made UST so attractive to the Summit is the sports they sponsor. The Summit was struggling to field a conference for baseball, soccer and tennis, and UST offers all of those sports. I think if anyone should be worried at this point its men's hockey. A feasibility study will reveal that Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake, and the men's WCHA is disbanding to form a league without the Alaska schools and UAH, so currently, there is no conference that exists to extend an offer to UST. If it does, then you have a series of major logistical problems: where to build an arena to accommodate D1 men's hockey? How much will it cost? Will the community support it? Etc.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Some folks won't be happy.

Unpopular opinion as a non-native Minnesotan but... dump men's hockey. Support the successful women's program which can get by at STA, and put some resources towards D1 soccer.

I'd be sad if this happened, as I've enjoyed some UST hockey games, but it seems to solve a number of issues.

Offline USTBench

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99781 on: July 17, 2020, 07:58:50 pm »
[...] Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake[...]

Have you ever been to Southwest Minnesota? They could use a couple more good ones down here. Pipestone and Rock County, MN are two of only four counties in the state that do not have a natural lake.

Been to Pipestone as recently as April. While it might be IN Minnesota, it ain't Minnesota. Go to Lake Herman.

Offline miac952

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99782 on: July 18, 2020, 10:35:41 am »
I think your coworker might be hearing a slightly veiled explanation from his friends in the USD Athletic Department....the big issue with the MVFC and UST right now is how it would impact the recruiting of 5 current schools that all spend considerable time and effort recruiting in the TC for football talent.  The rosters of NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU and UNI are covered with players from around the TC.....those schools all need to evaluate the impact of UST in their Summit League sports to determine how UST in MVFC would change their current recruiting and roster construction.

I don't doubt that is a factor, but UST is going to be competing with those schools for Twin Cities recruits as a PFL member starting right now. The issue will ultimately become "what can they do for/what do they bring to the MVFC?" If they can't build a program, there is no chance.
They're going to be recruiting with UST for walk-ons, but I really doubt many guys are going to turn down a MVFC scholarship to go to UST.  If the UST administration really wants to get to the MVFC they can do it, but it's going to be more of a money issue than a competition issue.  It's going to be enormously expensive to add scholarships and stipends for football and rent or build a bigger stadium.  I also don't know how this would impact Title IX.  If the scholarships are relatively equal before going to the MVFC you can't just add 63 scholarships to the men without adding any for the women.  Get ready to start women's rowing and field hockey, or cut a couple men's sports.

Drop Men’s tennis (no on-campus facilities), add women’s Lacrosse. That starts to get you close.

What made UST so attractive to the Summit is the sports they sponsor. The Summit was struggling to field a conference for baseball, soccer and tennis, and UST offers all of those sports. I think if anyone should be worried at this point its men's hockey. A feasibility study will reveal that Minnesota needs another D1 men's hockey program like it needs an 10,001st lake, and the men's WCHA is disbanding to form a league without the Alaska schools and UAH, so currently, there is no conference that exists to extend an offer to UST. If it does, then you have a series of major logistical problems: where to build an arena to accommodate D1 men's hockey? How much will it cost? Will the community support it? Etc.

Tough decisions will need to be made. Some folks won't be happy.

Unpopular opinion as a non-native Minnesotan but... dump men's hockey. Support the successful women's program which can get by at STA, and put some resources towards D1 soccer.

I'd be sad if this happened, as I've enjoyed some UST hockey games, but it seems to solve a number of issues.

It would certainly yield more “savings” than cutting something like Tennis, Swimming or Track. However it doesn’t seem to jive with the public comments made by Esten and CCHA Commissioner Don Lucia. By all accounts they seem to be looking at UST as the potential 8th partner in the CCHA.

Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99783 on: July 18, 2020, 11:21:03 am »
Among all the serious discussions we've had of recent here and on the other boards with all the craziness and serious events going on in our college football world and the country, I thought I would offer this for a brief change, if I may.

Some of you veteran SJU posters here may recall one of your own great alums, Mike Fahey, aka Johnnie Red, who used to post here for several years and who was (if I recall correctly) one of the organizers of the famous Stingfest Burger cookouts at your stadium.  You may also recall that last year, I was attempting (for over a year) to find out where Mike was residing as he had (seemingly) dropped out of sight.  In reality, he had to retire from his federal judge position due to health issues.  Several of you (including Coach Jim Gagliardi) very kindly assisted me in locating where Mike resides and I was able to visit him in person a year ago on my way out to a conference in Montana. 

With that background info, I wanted to just mention here that if any of you would like to consider sending him a card, please PM me here and I will send a PM reply back with his current mailing address.  I talk with him periodically, and I know he would appreciate hearing from any of you.  As you know, he did a lot for his alma mater and, IMO, it would be just something small to let let him know he is not forgotten by the SJU (and MIAC) crowd, but also appreciated for his steadfast loyalty and support to the school as well as here on D3.com when he was able to regularly post.  Perhaps some of you have already been keeping in touch with him periodically and, if so, thank you.  I just thought it might be a nice thing to do, especially in all this current craziness going on, which effects everyone in reality.  Again, I know he would appreciate it- he is still a fan.  Thanks and I hope I  did not overstep the bounds here.     
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Offline Robert Zimmerman

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99784 on: July 18, 2020, 03:10:52 pm »
Just got back from up north and catching up. I understand why the non-conference football games were cancelled, but I was really looking forward to watching the SJU-Aurora rematch, especially to see how the SJU D would try to stop Aurora's quarterback the second time around.

Offline OzJohnnie

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99785 on: July 18, 2020, 04:11:48 pm »
Just got back from up north and catching up. I understand why the non-conference football games were cancelled, but I was really looking forward to watching the SJU-Aurora rematch, especially to see how the SJU D would try to stop Aurora's quarterback the second time around.

Ditto.  Now we'll face him first up in the post-season.  Too high stakes.
[  

Offline Texas Ole

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99786 on: July 18, 2020, 06:56:30 pm »
Among all the serious discussions we've had of recent here and on the other boards with all the craziness and serious events going on in our college football world and the country, I thought I would offer this for a brief change, if I may.

Some of you veteran SJU posters here may recall one of your own great alums, Mike Fahey, aka Johnnie Red, who used to post here for several years and who was (if I recall correctly) one of the organizers of the famous Stingfest Burger cookouts at your stadium.  You may also recall that last year, I was attempting (for over a year) to find out where Mike was residing as he had (seemingly) dropped out of sight.  In reality, he had to retire from his federal judge position due to health issues.  Several of you (including Coach Jim Gagliardi) very kindly assisted me in locating where Mike resides and I was able to visit him in person a year ago on my way out to a conference in Montana. 

With that background info, I wanted to just mention here that if any of you would like to consider sending him a card, please PM me here and I will send a PM reply back with his current mailing address.  I talk with him periodically, and I know he would appreciate hearing from any of you.  As you know, he did a lot for his alma mater and, IMO, it would be just something small to let let him know he is not forgotten by the SJU (and MIAC) crowd, but also appreciated for his steadfast loyalty and support to the school as well as here on D3.com when he was able to regularly post.  Perhaps some of you have already been keeping in touch with him periodically and, if so, thank you.  I just thought it might be a nice thing to do, especially in all this current craziness going on, which effects everyone in reality.  Again, I know he would appreciate it- he is still a fan.  Thanks and I hope I  did not overstep the bounds here.     

As I remember he was one of the great posters on the board who was always reasonable.  Always supported everyone with kind word and an invitation to his tailgate.  I regret I never got to make one of those tailgates.

Offline BDB

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99787 on: July 18, 2020, 07:40:12 pm »
Very cool, formerd3db.  8-)

Offline OzJohnnie

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99788 on: July 18, 2020, 09:54:37 pm »
Big article on where football stands for the MIAC this year.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s-small-colleges-cite-astronomical-costs-of-ncaa-s-covid-19-recommendations/571811142/

Quote
Per the NCAA’s guidelines, which aren’t requirements, student-athletes in high-contact risk sports such as football, soccer and volleyball will need COVID-19 testing within 72 hours of every game. The cost of that, as St. John’s football coach Gary Fasching put it, is “astronomical.”

“It’s incredible costs that I don’t know that we could absorb at this time,” Fasching said.

Across the NCAA, several conferences, including the Division I Ivy League and Patriot League, have already canceled fall sports. In Minnesota, D-III Carleton College has canceled fall sports, but the rest of the MIAC has yet to do more than cancel nonconference games for the fall.

The cost of testing could become a tipping point. Brooks estimated for just his D-III fall sports high-risk teams — men’s and women’s soccer, football and volleyball — testing would cost more than $300,000.

Quote
“That’s not Mankato’s plan; that’s what this [NCAA] document is saying you should do,” Buisman said. “And again the operative word is ‘should.’ They’re not saying required, they’re saying based on the NCAA’s medical team, this is what we should do.”

At St. John’s, Fasching expects what could be his biggest-ever roster of 220 players arriving on campus Aug. 22. Testing for each of the seven remaining games on the D-III Johnnies’ schedule could cost $154,000.
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Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99789 on: July 18, 2020, 10:44:49 pm »
Big article on where football stands for the MIAC this year.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s-small-colleges-cite-astronomical-costs-of-ncaa-s-covid-19-recommendations/571811142/

Quote
Per the NCAA’s guidelines, which aren’t requirements, student-athletes in high-contact risk sports such as football, soccer and volleyball will need COVID-19 testing within 72 hours of every game. The cost of that, as St. John’s football coach Gary Fasching put it, is “astronomical.”

“It’s incredible costs that I don’t know that we could absorb at this time,” Fasching said.

Across the NCAA, several conferences, including the Division I Ivy League and Patriot League, have already canceled fall sports. In Minnesota, D-III Carleton College has canceled fall sports, but the rest of the MIAC has yet to do more than cancel nonconference games for the fall.

The cost of testing could become a tipping point. Brooks estimated for just his D-III fall sports high-risk teams — men’s and women’s soccer, football and volleyball — testing would cost more than $300,000.

Quote
“That’s not Mankato’s plan; that’s what this [NCAA] document is saying you should do,” Buisman said. “And again the operative word is ‘should.’ They’re not saying required, they’re saying based on the NCAA’s medical team, this is what we should do.”

At St. John’s, Fasching expects what could be his biggest-ever roster of 220 players arriving on campus Aug. 22. Testing for each of the seven remaining games on the D-III Johnnies’ schedule could cost $154,000.

Actually, testing will cost much more than that.  At $100 per test (which is the current cost), indeed, the $154,000 only covers that number of players you mention.  That does not take into consideration all the other people who will need to be tested (coaches, officials for game days, equipment managers and their staff, the athletic training staff, sideline personnel, even press box officials, etc.).  For example, currently over this way in west Michigan, some colleges are not even sure they will be able to get the quick result test and if that is not readily available, testing will take two days for the results to return.  And as you know, any of the tests only relate that a person is negative for the day they are tested-that could change in 24 hours. 

Anyway, indeed, as everyone here has mentioned, this is a very difficult problem/challenge facing all the programs who have said they are planning and desire to move forward with even an abbreviated season.  Recommendations are just that and as you and others have said, each school will need to make their own decisions based on their resources and what they perceive is best for all teams including based on local, state, and federal guidelines/recommendations and, of course, any state mandates that may be enacted.  Truly, this is a mess, but everyone just has to deal with it the best they can.  In my own mind, I have this scenario of what I believe is probably going to happen, but...I'll keep that to myself!  Appreciate everyone's input here-nothing wrong with discussing opinions and potential options, even if not everyone is on the same game plan. 
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Offline formerd3db

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99790 on: July 18, 2020, 10:47:11 pm »
DBD:
Thank you and check your PMs.

Texas Ole:
Agree with you 100%!
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99791 on: July 19, 2020, 11:03:47 am »
Big article on where football stands for the MIAC this year.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-s-small-colleges-cite-astronomical-costs-of-ncaa-s-covid-19-recommendations/571811142/

Quote
Per the NCAA’s guidelines, which aren’t requirements, student-athletes in high-contact risk sports such as football, soccer and volleyball will need COVID-19 testing within 72 hours of every game. The cost of that, as St. John’s football coach Gary Fasching put it, is “astronomical.”

“It’s incredible costs that I don’t know that we could absorb at this time,” Fasching said.

Across the NCAA, several conferences, including the Division I Ivy League and Patriot League, have already canceled fall sports. In Minnesota, D-III Carleton College has canceled fall sports, but the rest of the MIAC has yet to do more than cancel nonconference games for the fall.

The cost of testing could become a tipping point. Brooks estimated for just his D-III fall sports high-risk teams — men’s and women’s soccer, football and volleyball — testing would cost more than $300,000.

Quote
“That’s not Mankato’s plan; that’s what this [NCAA] document is saying you should do,” Buisman said. “And again the operative word is ‘should.’ They’re not saying required, they’re saying based on the NCAA’s medical team, this is what we should do.”

At St. John’s, Fasching expects what could be his biggest-ever roster of 220 players arriving on campus Aug. 22. Testing for each of the seven remaining games on the D-III Johnnies’ schedule could cost $154,000.

There is this underlying issue of student athletes putting down deposits, sitting out a semester, paying or not paying tuition for that semester, allowed to stay another year, etc, etc.

If SJU has 200 football players and the cost of everything at SJU is 55K a year, that's 10 million dollars or so coming into the school (or not coming into the school based on the above).  Even if that number is 5 million, are colleges taking this into account, especially with athletes who may or not pay this fall based on whether or not a sport is being played?

I could be way off on these figures, and maybe colleges don't even look at it that way, but from a few of my friends who are sending kids away for their freshman year, I get the impression that they want ALL freshman on campus as soon as possible, and that the reason behind this is to "lock" these kids into the school asap. 

But I also get that SJU is not like other MIAC members, and if they don't have anyone to play in a season that might not count, maybe you have to look at folding your cards for the season. 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 11:08:11 am by Jonny Utah »

Online jknezek

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99792 on: July 19, 2020, 11:16:51 am »
When you look at the schools that have announced no athletics you definitely see schools less reliant on enrollment. I personally believe there are a lot of schools and conferences that are more reliant on enrollment will hold this charade of athletics until after athletes return. Then a round of testing, maybe, a few positives on campus inside or outside athletics and poof...  it will end. The goal is to lock in the dollars but the point of failure is going to be so low cancellation is almost inevitable.

The NCAA recommendations make athletics at any level but Power 5 too expensive. Granted it is only recs, but is the NCAA going to allow a post season under their liability against their recs? Of course not. So any hope of a D3 national tournament died with those recs. Is a shortened regular season worth the testing costs and risks? No. But pretending for a few more weeks to lock in those fall enrollments is not just worth it but possibly necessary for a whole lot of schools.

Offline jamtod

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99793 on: July 19, 2020, 01:24:32 pm »
Interesting article on AL.com about "college football information wars"

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020/07/inside-college-footballs-coronavirus-information-war.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Quote
"I fully understand why athletic directors and conference commissioners have fought vigorously to get college football going,” Finebaum said. “You don’t need a Ph.D. in mathematics from M.I.T. to understand that. It is about the money.”

The optimism campaign backfired. Predictions of a relatively normal season with normal crowds may have lulled fans into a false sense of security as some states reopened too soon and many returned to their pre-pandemic way of life. Hope for having an on-time and full football season has been replaced by hope for a 2020 season in any form, and only if the negative trajectory is corrected.


Offline Texas Ole

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Re: FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
« Reply #99794 on: July 19, 2020, 10:48:00 pm »
With 220 football players if the MIAC shuts it down SJU could have a intramural league.  The MIAC is one of the few conferences that does not allow for graduate players.  I can't remember the MIAC or D3 rules on other 5th year eligibility issues.  If the MIAC decides on no fall sports or no football could schools still play an independent schedule?

I haven't seen anything from Mac regarding fall sports, but I am guessing if they can take a year off from football than they will do it.  They are probably next to cancel fall sports.  A year ago we were all wondering why some of these schools built these massive endowments.  Now a lot of schools are having to look to these endowments to cover losses.  As a rule you never touch the principal, but I am fearing that might happen soon for a few schools especially if enrollments drop.