Author Topic: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference  (Read 368271 times)

Offline PNeal7

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4185 on: April 20, 2013, 01:54:11 pm »
So I guess college coaches had a better eye for talent than the scouts.

He was a low 90s guy before he got sick...what did the scouts think, that he was never gonna get well? That he was gonna die from strep? Crazy.

From his ODU profile.
HIGH SCHOOL: One of the top two high school pitchers in the entire Mid Atlantic Region...0.38 earned run average with 144 strikeouts in 72 innints...All-Metro and All-Region selection

Not sure how you miss a guy like that. He was pretty much an instant success at ODU too.

I don't find it very impressive to watch Verlander as a college junior and say "hrm, this guy might be pretty good." He went #2 in the draft...obviously anyone could see that by that time.

Unless you knew for 100% certain he wasn't gonna sign, seems like someone should have taken a shot on him.

As Catfish mentioned, Verlander was very ill late in HS forcing his radar gun numbers to drop. When you add that, plus the fact he played at a small Single A high school, I can see how teams like UVA, etc. would pass on him. Getting healthy and on a consistent lifting routine really helped him. The same is happening for his brother right now at ODU. We had Ben two summers ago, and (no offense to anyone, as I like the kid and they have wonderful parents) I thought Ben was a below average baseball player, both pitching wise and hitting wise. Then come this year, he is hitting .370+ with 10 HR's.

Knowing the right people and having a baseball pedigree certainly helps (a la Harold Baines son gettind drafted a few years back), but it takes talent as well. Spence, I'm not sure what you have against Catfish, or scouts in general, but it is what it is. With all of the millions of baseball players, a few our bound to fall through the cracks, but the true players with pro level potential get drafted. The ones that fall through the cracks are 'borderline' guys. A few 'borderline' guys may end up making it, but the majority end up hanging up the cleats somewhere around Low/High A Ball.

I can admit that when I played at CNU, I thought I may be able to play at the next level (or indy ball, which I didn't even try to do due to the lack of pay). However, after being around a higher level/caliber of players and several scouts, I can easily see why myself, and several other players who have solid numbers at the D3 level, do not get drafted.

Offline PNeal7

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4186 on: April 20, 2013, 01:55:21 pm »
One guy we haven't mentioned on here is Billy Steel (SS, CNU). He has had a very solid 3 years of his career, as he has started every game since showing up on campus. While he will not get drafted, he could potentially play indy ball if he wanted to added a few of the tryouts.

Offline 108 Stitches

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4187 on: April 20, 2013, 02:04:58 pm »
Baseball is so unpredictable, which is what makes it so fun to discuss. The Jason Heyward story is so funny with the scout watching games from the bushes, Mike Piazza drafted as a favor to Tommy Lasorda, and many others. Just when you think you have it figured...you find out you don't.

My son is good friends with a player who was drafted because he was the son of a scout and he heard all about how he was taken because of this and finally managed to get to the show last year. He is bouncing between AAA and the big club based  on his skills not because of his family connections. (he is not with the original organization now)

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4188 on: April 20, 2013, 04:54:36 pm »
If not for anabolic steroids, we've probably never heard of Mike Piazza. Another case of knowing the right people.

Offline 108 Stitches

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4189 on: April 20, 2013, 07:58:09 pm »
I forgot that you are the all knowing expert on all that is baseball. My apologies to the prophet.

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4190 on: April 21, 2013, 01:37:29 am »
Marietta's Mark Williams just got promoted to AA. Another one that scouts missed...signed out of the Frontier League.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 02:00:05 pm by Spence »

Offline Catfishncwc

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4191 on: April 21, 2013, 04:54:27 pm »
Marietta's Mark Williams just got promoted to AA. Another one that scouts missed...signed out of the Frontier League.
OK I get it we are all Idiots.  Please cover my area for me so I can look good. 
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Offline PNeal7

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4192 on: April 21, 2013, 05:16:03 pm »
Spence, give it a rest man. The scouts the majority of it right, and a few fringe players fall through the cracks.

Offline 108 Stitches

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4193 on: April 21, 2013, 05:45:42 pm »
Marietta's Mark Williams just got promoted to AA. Another one that scouts missed...signed out of the Frontier League.

Catfish as you know better than anyone on this board, making it to AA does not mean squat in terms of playing with the big squad. Those who has been around proball know the difficulty is not getting TO AA, but getting OUT of AA. Actually the toughest part is sticking when you get called up. I would say that the most of the pro players I know are the ones that made it to the show and did not stick. When you make it and do not differentiate yourself from the 25 on the roster, you will bounce back and forth between the big squad and AAA until you are out of options then you have no value to the club and are let go.

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4194 on: April 21, 2013, 06:24:36 pm »
Marietta's Mark Williams just got promoted to AA. Another one that scouts missed...signed out of the Frontier League.

Catfish as you know better than anyone on this board, making it to AA does not mean squat in terms of playing with the big squad. Those who has been around proball know the difficulty is not getting TO AA, but getting OUT of AA. Actually the toughest part is sticking when you get called up. I would say that the most of the pro players I know are the ones that made it to the show and did not stick. When you make it and do not differentiate yourself from the 25 on the roster, you will bounce back and forth between the big squad and AAA until you are out of options then you have no value to the club and are let go.

Not the point. There are a lot of guys that get drafted that never make it to AA. That Williams has (and in a pretty short time) shows that he was clearly overlooked. Big guy, threw hard in college...played for a great program obviously.

Btw catfish, did you ever scout Allen Webster of McMichael HS in NC? 18th rounder making his first MLB start tonight for Boston. Has looked like a prospect so far.

Offline 108 Stitches

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4195 on: April 21, 2013, 06:32:52 pm »
Quote
Not the point. There are a lot of guys that get drafted that never make it to AA.

Actually Spence it is EXACTLY the point. You or I could probably find lots of guys good enough to make it to AA. Guys like Catfish are paid to find the few that make it to the MLB and stick. Frankly it is the singular reason they are there.

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4196 on: April 21, 2013, 06:59:43 pm »
Quote
Not the point. There are a lot of guys that get drafted that never make it to AA.

Actually Spence it is EXACTLY the point. You or I could probably find lots of guys good enough to make it to AA. Guys like Catfish are paid to find the few that make it to the MLB and stick. Frankly it is the singular reason they are there.

Don't most players have to get to AA before they make MLB? Don't you think that a high rate of finding players that make it to AA would correlate to a high rate of identifying eventual MLB talent? Heck a lot of players skip AAA entirely if the club thinks they can play. I know the Twins do it relatively often.

Aug 1, 2011, Williams was still in independent ball. 20 months later and he's in AA. He threw 8 innings in rookie ball. You think the Brewers didn't realize they had a player better than many that were drafted?

If a scout's job is to uncover gems that makes the majors (let alone sticking), collectively they must not be doing a very good job of it if there's not much difference between the 12th round and the 38th round in terms of rate of making the majors. Teams do a better job drafting more likely MLB players sequentially in the first 10 rounds, but the first round is a 50-50 shot, indicating that the teams do a better job drafting than the scouts do scouting.

I would think if you consistently find players that make AA, you'll have enough of them make the majors that you'd come out looking pretty good by comparison.

Offline Catfishncwc

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4197 on: April 21, 2013, 07:34:11 pm »
Spence, never saw Webster he was out of my area and I never got to see him.  But he has a man's FB and was a part of that big trade with Dodgers and Sox.  Sox probably have something with him their.  I heard the Dodgers scout was the one to convince him to be a pitcher and stop playing SS even though he was a slick fielding SS. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 07:37:51 pm by Catfishncwc »
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Offline PNeal7

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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4198 on: April 21, 2013, 07:41:28 pm »
Spence - Did you play college ball and/or pro ball? Based on your comments you seem to have a bit of a 'grudge' against the system/scouts. Were you a fringe player that did not get drafted?

There is a difference between the 12th Round and the 38th Round in terms of getting to the majors. If you took every player ever drafted, players drafted in Rounds 1-20 have gotten to the show (and stuck) at a much higher percentage than players in the later rounds.

Also, your comment of "...teams do a better job drafting than the scouts do scouting" is idiotic. Where/how do you think the MLB teams draft? Off of what scouts see, say, think, etc. A local area scout sees a kid he thinks is a talent, if the player is worth it he calls in a cross-checker to come check him out, and based upon the cross-checkers thoughts he runs communication back to the big club. I may be missing a few parts of the process (Catfish can confirm) but it all revolves around the scouting.

You keep referring to the 1st Round being a 50-50 shot of making it to the majors. I have no clue what the numbers are, but let's assume your assumption is correct. If 1st Rounders have a 50-50 shot of making it to the big leagues, then players drafted in the 38th Round have about a 5-95 shot of not making it to the big leagues, so the scouts are still getting it right. They are drafting the players who have the greatest percentage (50-50 according to your all-knowing information) the earliest.


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Re: BB: USAC: USA South Athletic Conference
« Reply #4199 on: April 21, 2013, 08:49:22 pm »
Spence, never saw Webster he was out of my area and I never got to see him.  But he has a man's FB and was a part of that big trade with Dodgers and Sox.  Sox probably have something with him their.  I heard the Dodgers scout was the one to convince him to be a pitcher and stop playing SS even though he was a slick fielding SS.

Just wondered. I know teams didn't get much chance to see him because he was needed at short.

Whoever the Dodgers scout was definitely did his job there. 20k for a MLB player with a mid-upper 90s FB and plus change.