Author Topic: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 7764193 times)

Offline Titan Q

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53295 on: May 27, 2020, 03:52:08 pm »
As a UWSP and WIAC fan, I don't follow the Illinois high school basketball scene much at all.  With most of the CCIW recruits coming from Illinois, this might be a good question for you CCIW fans.

UWSP recently got a commitment from 6'4" Belvidere North wing, Anthony Espensen.  I see that he isn't ranked at all in Illinois on prep hoops, which seemed odd to me considering so many D3 recruits are ranked there.  Anyone have any knowledge on his situation??  Who was recruiting him?(From what I saw on twitter, other WIAC schools were also interested in him) I'm just curious because his highlights look really good to me.  They show a very balanced offensive player, athletic and a good defender.

https://www.hudl.com/profile/13787002/Anthony-Espensen

I just asked someone in the know.  He was recruited by:

* UW-Stevens Point
* UW-Platteville
* UW-Superior
* Benedictine
* Aurora
* Rock Valley JC

Offline tomt4525

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53296 on: May 27, 2020, 04:01:01 pm »
As a UWSP and WIAC fan, I don't follow the Illinois high school basketball scene much at all.  With most of the CCIW recruits coming from Illinois, this might be a good question for you CCIW fans.

UWSP recently got a commitment from 6'4" Belvidere North wing, Anthony Espensen.  I see that he isn't ranked at all in Illinois on prep hoops, which seemed odd to me considering so many D3 recruits are ranked there.  Anyone have any knowledge on his situation??  Who was recruiting him?(From what I saw on twitter, other WIAC schools were also interested in him) I'm just curious because his highlights look really good to me.  They show a very balanced offensive player, athletic and a good defender.

https://www.hudl.com/profile/13787002/Anthony-Espensen

I just asked someone in the know.  He was recruited by:

* UW-Stevens Point
* UW-Platteville
* UW-Superior
* Benedictine
* Aurora
* Rock Valley JC

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.  From what I was able to find, I thought La Crosse showed interest too...but maybe it was nothing but just checking in with him.  Benedictine, Platteville and Point are solid schools to have recruiting you.  I'm not very high on 4 of the 7 known UWSP commits, but Espensen is not one of those 4.  He should have a role sooner rather than later with the roster makeup of UWSP.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53297 on: May 27, 2020, 04:05:51 pm »
Any online prep ranking needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.



Yes, I know you donít care about recruiting and rankings, Iím asking the ppl who follow it.

Who says that I don't care about recruiting? I care very much about it. And it's an overstatement to say that I don't care about online rankings. I simply don't put as much stock in them as some other posters do.





You definitely fooled me then.  You don't care about commitments, you're the first to mention how commitments mean little and to let you know when a kid makes a deposit at said school.  That's not me, I want to see who commits where and the commitments I have seen have an extremely high success rate for those kids showing up at the school they have committed to.

Again you're putting words in my mouth.

First of all, let's distinguish that you're talking about verbal commitments (or tweeted ones, which is the same thing), rather than commitments in general. A deposit is a commitment, too -- it's a more concrete level of commitment.

Second, I have never dismissed the relevance of verbal/tweeted commitments or said that they "mean little." I read Bob's posts, and sac's on the MIAA board -- and yours, for that matter, on the WIAC board -- and take note of them. I have simply pointed out two or three times over the years (including last week) that they aren't ironclad. And, yes, there is "an extremely high success rate for those kids showing up at the school that they have committed to." Guess who else said that on this board a week ago today?

I did.

The point that I'm trying to make is that hardly anything is ever for certain in the world of CCIW recruiting -- and this year, that's more true than ever -- so that your lists, helpful as they are, need to be taken by the CCIW Chat reader with a grain of salt.

This year is one thing (for obvious reasons).  Who knows how/if the pandemic will affect who shows up in August...and if there will be any showing up in August at all.

But historically, I am not aware of any player I've ever put on such a recruiting list in March/April/May that has not shown up on campus.  I'm sure there might be a few examples over the years of a kid changing his mind after a Twitter announcement, but generally the accuracy rate here has to be about 95%+.  (Which, incidentally, is why I didn't add Jordan Boyd the other day.  I only want to add a name when there is a commitment.  I am very careful about who I put on the list.)

I think the grain of salt disclaimer is assumed, but I also think readers here can feel very good these recruiting lists are very solid.  (The great news is that when kids says they are going to School X, they almost always do.)

I'd put the accuracy rate a tad lower than that, but, yes, it is quite high.

I'd like to think that the grain-of-salt disclaimer is assumed by the readers of this room, but you know what they say about assuming things. I thought that the disclaimer was worth reiterating. Consider me the guy who puts the fine print under your recruiting posts. ;)

Emphasis added.

Smite me all you like, as you just did a few minutes ago, but please read what I post more carefully and with a bit more awareness of nuance.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..Ē -- John Wooden

Offline Titan Q

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53298 on: May 27, 2020, 04:17:24 pm »
As a UWSP and WIAC fan, I don't follow the Illinois high school basketball scene much at all.  With most of the CCIW recruits coming from Illinois, this might be a good question for you CCIW fans.

UWSP recently got a commitment from 6'4" Belvidere North wing, Anthony Espensen.  I see that he isn't ranked at all in Illinois on prep hoops, which seemed odd to me considering so many D3 recruits are ranked there.  Anyone have any knowledge on his situation??  Who was recruiting him?(From what I saw on twitter, other WIAC schools were also interested in him) I'm just curious because his highlights look really good to me.  They show a very balanced offensive player, athletic and a good defender.

https://www.hudl.com/profile/13787002/Anthony-Espensen

I just asked someone in the know.  He was recruited by:

* UW-Stevens Point
* UW-Platteville
* UW-Superior
* Benedictine
* Aurora
* Rock Valley JC

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.  From what I was able to find, I thought La Crosse showed interest too...but maybe it was nothing but just checking in with him.  Benedictine, Platteville and Point are solid schools to have recruiting you.  I'm not very high on 4 of the 7 known UWSP commits, but Espensen is not one of those 4.  He should have a role sooner rather than later with the roster makeup of UWSP.

A guy I follow on Twitter, @CoachAWeb, has said a lot of good things about Espensen.  I trust his opinion.  I think he will turn out to be a good player.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53299 on: May 29, 2020, 07:14:10 pm »
Jordan Boyd put in his deposit at NPU today.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..Ē -- John Wooden

Offline Titan Q

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53300 on: May 30, 2020, 03:28:08 pm »
I've heard North Central is getting Simeon Strauss, a 6-4 G from Waubonsee CC.  As a soph last season - 10.1 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.3 apg, .476 FG, .323 3-point.

http://gochiefs.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/bios/strauss_simeon_hsru

Offline USee

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53301 on: May 30, 2020, 07:46:26 pm »
Jordan Boyd put in his deposit at NPU today.

Must be officially official then!
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53302 on: May 31, 2020, 12:02:52 am »
Jordan Boyd put in his deposit at NPU today.

Must be officially official then!

Officially official, but not officially there yet. ;)
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..Ē -- John Wooden

Offline Tko244227

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Offline Titan Q

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53304 on: May 31, 2020, 05:38:51 pm »
https://twitter.com/jesspoolea2/status/1264698465097039881?s=12

Thoughts on this ??
Looks like there is a long way to go, Todd.

What is your perspective as a coach? How do we make progress?

Offline Tko244227

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53305 on: May 31, 2020, 07:44:28 pm »
Good question. I donít have the answers Bob. However I do feel that athletic directors and school presidents have some reluctance to hire minority coaches particularly at the D3 level because they may think that us coaches canít relate to the alumni, boosters and administrators that we would have to interact with. Also I feel those same administrators will hire people who they feel most comfortable with and in most cases people are more comfortable with people who look like them. There also may be a fear that if a minority coach is hired then the composition of the team will change which is totally not true as well. I believe there is an overall misconception that the minority coaches are best at recruiting and arenít great at the other aspects of coaching, which is totally not true. There are plenty of minority coaches that are really good with  Xís and Oís, player development , fundraising, budgeting, scouting, talent evaluation, game strategy, practice planning and any other duty a coach may have. In addition, when minority candidates finally do get an opportunity we need to fully take advantage by winning and winning big so that there is no doubt that we were the right hire. Unfortunately the last three African-American head coaches in the CCIW didnít do great ( even though all three had tremendous success at other places as head coaches, before and after).I think that
will go a long way to helping the cause as well. This will be an ongoing issue/discussion but Iím just frustrated that more minority coaches arenít getting the opportunities they deserve especially at the D3 level.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53306 on: May 31, 2020, 08:28:55 pm »
However I do feel that athletic directors and school presidents have some reluctance to hire minority coaches particularly at the D3 level because they may think that us coaches canít relate to the alumni, boosters and administrators that we would have to interact with.

That is a good point that hadn't occurred to me, Todd. I never really gave much thought as to how the PR aspect of the job might be an avenue for racial bias to seep into the hiring process.

I think that there might be a tradeoff here, insofar as hiring a minority head coach would positively showcase the school's embrace of diversity (or perceived embrace) to the public, but I suspect that what administrators assume to be the comfort zone of the people who write the donation checks would probably take precedence over that.

Also I feel those same administrators will hire people who they feel most comfortable with and in most cases people are more comfortable with people who look like them. There also may be a fear that if a minority coach is hired then the composition of the team will change which is totally not true as well. I believe there is an overall misconception that the minority coaches are best at recruiting and arenít great at the other aspects of coaching, which is totally not true. There are plenty of minority coaches that are really good with  Xís and Oís, player development , fundraising, budgeting, scouting, talent evaluation, game strategy, practice planning and any other duty a coach may have.

Those are the three excuses that I would've pointed towards in answering your initial question.

In addition, when minority candidates finally do get an opportunity we need to fully take advantage by winning and winning big so that there is no doubt that we were the right hire. Unfortunately the last three African-American head coaches in the CCIW didnít do great ( even though all three had tremendous success at other places as head coaches, before and after).I think that
will go a long way to helping the cause as well.

Unfortunately, placing the burden upon them to succeed in order to be a trailblazer for other minority coaching candidates means adding more pressure on top of the pressures that already exist to succeed on the court, to placate the administration by providing both quantity and quality with regard to student-athlete recruitment, and to maintain a budget even under difficult circumstances. I'd hate to think that the first successful African-American head men's basketball coach in the CCIW is going to have to come into the job wearing a red cape and blue tights with a big red 'S' on his chest. The job's tough enough as it is, whether you're black, white, brown, or any other hue of the human rainbow.

My hope is that there will eventually be enough minority head coaches within the CCIW's ranks -- not just in this sport but in all of the other sports that the league sponsors -- that: a) one of them will achieve big success on the national level in D3; and b) sheer numbers will make minority head coaches a commonplace within the CCIW and thus no longer an issue.

This will be an ongoing issue/discussion but Iím just frustrated that more minority coaches arenít getting the opportunities they deserve especially at the D3 level.

Understandably so, although the chart to which you linked raises other questions as well, such as: How many minority candidates are applying for each job? How big a percentage of the candidate pool do they represent? How much of the due consideration of minority candidates is genuine and how much of it is window-dressing? and How many minority candidates are at least getting to the interview stage?
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..Ē -- John Wooden

Offline RogK

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53307 on: May 31, 2020, 08:57:07 pm »
The looters and arsonists operating in Chicago and suburbs AS WE SPEAK have never heard of the CCIW and don't give a crap about who's coaching in D3.

Offline Tko244227

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53308 on: May 31, 2020, 09:47:40 pm »
Greg any minority head coaches hired in the CCIW  are well aware of the challenges and the pressure, knowing that he has to succeed or it will be harder for those after to be considered. Any coach hired will also embrace that pressure . In addition I can assure you there are many D3 schools that have interviewed minority candidates with no intention to hire them and I can speak from experience on that topic.

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53309 on: May 31, 2020, 11:26:48 pm »
I think it would be interesting to look at assistant coaches and the ways in which head coaches mentor players and managers. 

By the way, the Tweet says that 6.8% of men's basketball coaches are women.

I must be misreading this right?