Author Topic: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 8108337 times)

Offline petemcb

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53430 on: July 23, 2020, 11:21:13 am »
IF we can have a basketball season this year, I’ve heard that one possibility being looked at is a schedule consisting of conference games only. No overnight travel. CCIW wise, this would result in a 16 game season before any possibility of tournament play being introduced.
Maybe everyone could play 3 rounds of conference games instead of the usual 2. This would give us a 24 game regular season schedule, still under the NCAA limit of 25. Who knows? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Intriguing - particularly if that third game was played at a neutral site. For example, Millikin vs IWU @ Augie, Augie vs Wheaton @ Carthage, etc. Is there anything that would rule against that?

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53431 on: July 23, 2020, 11:41:17 am »
No, there's no rule against it. And, if the seats are empty anyway because health protocols limit those present to players, coaches, refs, and game staff, it wouldn't make any difference. (Except to broadcasters. Somebody above my pay grade, probably AD John Born, would make the decision as to whether I would travel with the team, or stay at home and call the Elmhurst vs. Millikin game taking place at the crackerbox while NPU is playing Augustana at Carroll, which would be mighty weird from my point of view. ;))

The only issue is that it would mean that there are 16 teams traveling for each of those nine game days (since women's basketball and men's basketball have complementary scheduling) instead of the usual eight, and part of the recommended health protocol involves cutting down on off-campus activity. Then again, everybody within the nine schools of the CCIW will become part of the same contact pool once we start engaging in sports again, anyway.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:43:18 am by Gregory Sager »
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Offline kiko

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53432 on: July 23, 2020, 01:56:50 pm »
This would in essence mean having two groups of people from other universities come in and use my school's facilities for something where my students are not involved during the middle of a pandemic where we are aiming to limit unnecessary or more casual contact as a means of controlling virus spread.

If I am AD, this would basically be a non-starter.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53433 on: July 23, 2020, 02:51:51 pm »
I guess my question in all of this is how things will change after Jan 1st? An inoculation is not going to guarantee immunity, and you can't know ahead of time for whoma vaccine will be effective. I get cancelling or limiting exposure in places where the virus spread is out of control, but we're never again going to be free from the threat of COVID exposure or infection. I don't want to be antagonistic; it's a genuine question: how will a pre-vaccine athletic protocol in areas where the spread is already low be different from athletic protocols after there's a vaccine? Is it just a matter of liability? I know this situation is only realistic for a very few states right now, but it's the question I can't seem to get passed in my own thinking and it's going to be come more and more relevant (assuming we ever get a handle on this thing).
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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53434 on: July 23, 2020, 04:06:53 pm »
I guess my question in all of this is how things will change after Jan 1st? An inoculation is not going to guarantee immunity, and you can't know ahead of time for whoma vaccine will be effective. I get cancelling or limiting exposure in places where the virus spread is out of control, but we're never again going to be free from the threat of COVID exposure or infection. I don't want to be antagonistic; it's a genuine question: how will a pre-vaccine athletic protocol in areas where the spread is already low be different from athletic protocols after there's a vaccine? Is it just a matter of liability? I know this situation is only realistic for a very few states right now, but it's the question I can't seem to get passed in my own thinking and it's going to be come more and more relevant (assuming we ever get a handle on this thing).

I too wish I was smart enough to answer Ryan’s question about how protocols might differ between pre and post vaccine.
However, with regard to an effective vaccine, we must remember that we’re still primarily in the development stage with a small degree of preliminary testing just starting to be done. If a truly effective vaccine can, by some miracle, be developed by 1/1/21, it will still be months before mass production can be ramped up and supply lines of distribution can be developed to make the vaccine widely available to the general public. Additionally, (as my M.D. nephew who works in the COVID-19 Unit at University of Wisconsin Hospital tells me) and very pertinent to college athletic competition, is the fact that the first batches of any generally (it won’t work for everyone) effective vaccine are going to go to hospitals for the patients, and the doctors and nurses working in the COVID units in those hospitals, and also to nursing home patients and staffs. On the second tier of distribution will likely be doctors offices for administration to new cases of infection and preventative doses first to the elderly, infants/young children, and those with compromised immune systems—-the most at risk segments of the population. It will take some time before healthy individuals can walk into a doctor’s office or a clinic for a shot of the new COVID vaccine like they can now for a flu shot.
Accordingly, it’s difficult to imagine that as of 1/1/21, we’ll be able to see full college athletic competition taking place between fully inoculated teams of student-athletes playing before full arenas.

Also, on the subject of fan attendance, I believe that if basketball is able to be played (with no vaccine) in the new year, that, in addition to players, coaches, refs, and game staff, some of the current thinking is that there is a decent possibility that the players parents/families (fully masked of course) may be able to attend. When you consider they’ll have the entire gym, there should be enough area to allow the families to be in attendance with proper spacing between the various family units.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:15:30 pm by AndOne »

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53435 on: July 23, 2020, 08:48:42 pm »
At least two of the vaccines in or readying stage 3 trials are pre producing doses in anticipation of approval. I believe Pfizer is going to have all 100m doses the US gov't purchased yesterday ready to go the moment the vaccine is approved.
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Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53436 on: July 24, 2020, 08:13:01 am »
We all need to pivot from this "vaccine will save us all" mantra to developing a super therapuetic, a "take two of these, three times a day, for a week".

Over half of the U.S. population above the age of 18 do NOT get an annual flu vaccination. The projected percentage of people in that same category who will get a COVID vaccination........along with the seemingly necessary, somewhat frequent "boosters", is about 12% - 15% less.

So for the 1/3 of our adult population who do actually get the COVID vaccination AND the necessary boosters, here is the stark reality:

- the vaccination will help about 1/4 to 1/3 of those who get it and proceed with boosters

- about 1/4 to 1/3 of those who get the vaccination will still get COVID,but the symptoms won't be as bad

- about 1/3 to 1/2 of those who get the vaccination will not be helped at all BECAUSE these vaccinations are future guessing games and this is mutating at a wickedly fast pace. There can't and won't be a vaccination that can take into account every potential mutation............and if there was, imagine how low the number would drop to for people who really think about what is about to be injected into them.

I know a ton of people who have never received a flu shot...............and they have never been affected by the flu.

I know a ton of people who get the flu shot religiously...........and have been flu ridden several times.

I know a ton of people who get the flu shot religiously...........and they have never had the flu............and they believe it's solely as a result of the flu shot.

A "vaccination" will help on the margin, it will make many "feel good" that progress is being made at lightning speed, but the reality is that we are dealing with something that has hundreds of thousands of the world's smartest minds baffled and the true answer lies in therapeutics. I heard one medical researcher make a comment about perfect therapeutics being the answer..........and a quick to market vaccine being a little better than nothing or a placebo.

I don't even pay attention to the vaccination talk with the exception of how I can benefit my clients from an investment standpoint. The Holy Grail is the company or companies who come up with the therapeutic(s) solutions.


Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53437 on: July 24, 2020, 09:30:11 am »

That's sort of what I meant by the original question.  The "danger" to student athletes isn't going to be much different after the vaccine as before (assuming the campus is in a low spread area and general precautions are being taken to identify and isolate infected persons).  It's not like all of a sudden things will be back to how they were in 2019.  My question was more along the lines of "what are we going to be comfortable with when there is a vaccine" and then "shouldn't we be putting those guidelines in place for basketball?"

No school is going to play sports with a significant chance of COVID spread, but many will likely play with a small chance of spread, because, from here on out, there will always be a small chance of spread.

I'm trying to find justification for a "temporary" protocol.  I think "no fans" does have real justification pre-vaccine, but seating and spacing will be something that must be addressed afterwards, as well.  Versus, say, "regular testing of athletes."  If there's always a chance of spread and infection, when does testing move from a smart consideration for colleges to overprotection?  Because it'll happen at some point - and should we play sports while regular testing of everyone is still a good thing to do?

That's just where my brain has been lately.
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53438 on: July 24, 2020, 10:02:56 am »
This would in essence mean having two groups of people from other universities come in and use my school's facilities for something where my students are not involved during the middle of a pandemic where we are aiming to limit unnecessary or more casual contact as a means of controlling virus spread.

If I am AD, this would basically be a non-starter.

Of course it's a non-starter. I think that Pete was just being fanciful with his hypothetical. There's no reason whatsoever why CCIW schools would not host their own teams, pandemic or not.

But the point remains that all nine CCIW schools will to some degree become a common contact pool as soon as athletic competition starts, and administrators have to keep that in mind. That's presumably the reason behind canceling non-conference play against outside schools -- limiting the size and scope of contact tracing.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline WUPHF

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53439 on: July 24, 2020, 10:25:32 am »
I may have said this elsewhere, but in my mind, the risk that comes with repopulating colleges and universities, especially the dorms, and the additional risk that comes with varsity athletics has to be minimal.

That is the question for me: do we open up colleges and universities or not?

Offline kiko

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53440 on: July 24, 2020, 09:38:52 pm »
This would in essence mean having two groups of people from other universities come in and use my school's facilities for something where my students are not involved during the middle of a pandemic where we are aiming to limit unnecessary or more casual contact as a means of controlling virus spread.

If I am AD, this would basically be a non-starter.

Of course it's a non-starter. I think that Pete was just being fanciful with his hypothetical. There's no reason whatsoever why CCIW schools would not host their own teams, pandemic or not.

But the point remains that all nine CCIW schools will to some degree become a common contact pool as soon as athletic competition starts, and administrators have to keep that in mind. That's presumably the reason behind canceling non-conference play against outside schools -- limiting the size and scope of contact tracing.

Oddly, your initial reply didn't seem to suggest that this was a non-starter.  :)

The conference schools are a Venn diagram and not a closed contact pool similar to the bubbles that professional sports leagues are aiming to create.  And, if you want to see the ripples that can happen when one group doesn't maintain the bubble, I will point you to the mess created around the season-ending matchday this past weekend in Spain's Segunda division.

Given that each school's student-athletes will still be interacting with potentially hundreds of other students if campuses were to open up, plus whomever they are interacting with off campus, and given that for some students there will be a younger person's tendency to exhibit less of the discipline needed to mitigate further virus spread, I'm not convinced that conference-only play does much to embrace the risk mitigation protocols that are ideal for seriously addressing the virus' spread.

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53441 on: July 25, 2020, 12:37:42 pm »
This would in essence mean having two groups of people from other universities come in and use my school's facilities for something where my students are not involved during the middle of a pandemic where we are aiming to limit unnecessary or more casual contact as a means of controlling virus spread.

If I am AD, this would basically be a non-starter.

Of course it's a non-starter. I think that Pete was just being fanciful with his hypothetical. There's no reason whatsoever why CCIW schools would not host their own teams, pandemic or not.

But the point remains that all nine CCIW schools will to some degree become a common contact pool as soon as athletic competition starts, and administrators have to keep that in mind. That's presumably the reason behind canceling non-conference play against outside schools -- limiting the size and scope of contact tracing.

Oddly, your initial reply didn't seem to suggest that this was a non-starter.  :)

I was just indulging Pete's hypothetical, because on a personal level I found it odd and whimsical to contemplate calling a Carthage vs. Wheaton game in the crackerbox while the NPU men's team was playing Augustana at Carroll and the NPU women's team was playing North Central at Illinois Wesleyan. As I said, this is something that wouldn't happen even if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic.

The conference schools are a Venn diagram and not a closed contact pool similar to the bubbles that professional sports leagues are aiming to create.  And, if you want to see the ripples that can happen when one group doesn't maintain the bubble, I will point you to the mess created around the season-ending matchday this past weekend in Spain's Segunda division.

Given that each school's student-athletes will still be interacting with potentially hundreds of other students if campuses were to open up, plus whomever they are interacting with off campus, and given that for some students there will be a younger person's tendency to exhibit less of the discipline needed to mitigate further virus spread, I'm not convinced that conference-only play does much to embrace the risk mitigation protocols that are ideal for seriously addressing the virus' spread.

I agree. Further, I would add that the CCIW is, unlike some other D3 leagues, saddled with the fact that all of its schools -- mine, especially -- are located within sizeable population areas that make them major vectors for virus transmission. The CCIW is most certainly not a circuit of the sort of bucolic Small Town U.S.A. schools that I think functions in American culture as a sort of idealized stereotype of small liberal arts colleges. (The MWC, by contrast, comes much closer to fitting that stereotype.) I think that the CCIW's policy of conference-only play falls into the category of "any little bit helps" -- or, for the more cynical among us, the category of "administrators have to appear proactive by closing the windows in the face of a hurricane."
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Offline voxelmhurst

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53442 on: July 27, 2020, 01:41:49 am »
Elmhurst officially became Elmhurst University at the beginning of July, and for those with a degree of curiosity that can perhaps best be described as ardent; here are some new pictures of the ongoing RA Faganel Hall renovations.

https://elmhurstbluejays.com/news/2020/7/22/general-faganel-hall-renovation-updates.aspx

Time will tell us what the new seats will look like and when anyone will be able to use them.

I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying their summer as much as possible.

Offline GU1999

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53443 on: July 27, 2020, 02:49:35 pm »
Cciw cancels fall competition.

Offline GU1999

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #53444 on: July 27, 2020, 02:51:31 pm »
Postpones*