Author Topic: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin  (Read 6245257 times)

Offline Titan Q

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48585 on: October 11, 2018, 12:36:41 pm »
Come on Greg. Loosen up a little. You honestly don’t see even a little humor in Rocquemore’s saying the reason he chose NPU was because he “wanted to check out the Windy City,” with nothing whatsoever being said about the merits of NPU itself?  ;D

It seems pretty clear the kid is just having some fun with the bio Q&A...

https://athletics.northpark.edu/roster.aspx?rp_id=3238

Q: What is an interesting fact about yourself?
A: "People say I am Kevin Hart's twin."

Q: Why did you choose North Park?
A:"I wanted to check out the Windy City."


I think you might be reading something into his response that isn't there.

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48586 on: October 11, 2018, 03:04:16 pm »
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Offline iwu70

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48587 on: October 11, 2018, 04:30:22 pm »
Augie #3
IWU #19
NCC -- ORV

Defending Champion NE. Wesleyan returning at #1.

Should be a fun year.

IWU'70

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48588 on: October 11, 2018, 10:18:33 pm »
North Park's roster is up.

LOTS of names. The majority of them seem new, with some obscure returnees mixed in. The only readily recognizable name is that of Matt Szuba who I sense could very well be NPU’s best player this season.

I love transfer (from renowned basketball powerhouse Northwest Kansas Technical College) Malachi Rocquemore’s reason for choosing NPU!  ???  ::)
Being from Buffalo, NY, I can understand the allure of the 2nd city (I know, I know, technically the 3rd), but it would have been nice for him to include an accolade about NPU! 🤫

And predicted to fall to 4th within a decade - Houston is gaining rapidly (don't know if Harvey interrupted that trend or not).  Since the Improv group never changed their name to 'Third City', I won't hold my breath on a name change!

Chicago's nickname did not originate due to the city's status as the population runner-up among American cities, although it was popularized as such following the 1889 annexations of much of the surrounding townships (and explicitly given the nickname once and for all in the American popular imagination thanks to A.J. Liebling's 1952 hatchet job, *Chicago: The Second City*).



As Harold Mayer's and Richard Wade's definitive history of the city, *Chicago: Growth of a Metropolis* (1969), states, the city's nickname originated in the wake of its rebirth from the ashes back in the Gilded Age of the late nineteenth century. In other words, it was originally called "the Second City" because it is literally the second city to stand on the spot where the two branches of the Chicago River coalesce and meet Lake Michigan, the first having burned down in 1871. Something to do with an Irishwoman's cow, from what I understand. ;)

Thanks, Greg - I never heard that origin story for 'second city', but it certainly makes sense.  I wonder if San Francisco would have thought to take the name in 1906 if it hadn't already been taken?!

It has always kinda bugged me that the area around Pestigo, WI, had a fire the same day as Chicago that killed far more people than died in Chicago, yet I dare say not one person in 100 has ever heard about it.  And just this summer, I learned that western Michigan also had a fire that same day that killed more people than died due to "Mrs. O'Leary's cow". :o  That must have been one epic drought in the upper midwest that year (or something)! :(

Offline WUPHF

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48589 on: October 11, 2018, 11:04:10 pm »
It is hard to argue with definitive, but I believe the second city moniker is still subject to debate.

The interesting thing about the phrase is that it is so commonly used and used around the world to describe the second most populous city.  This practice goes back a long time.

Offline markerickson

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48590 on: October 11, 2018, 11:07:49 pm »
Kirby's absence from the roster contributed to my 10/5 post; I did not know why he was not listed  I liked his BB IQ on O and D, confident drives to the hoop with his off-hand, defense, and a few treys as well.
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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48591 on: October 11, 2018, 11:19:16 pm »


I love transfer (from renowned basketball powerhouse Northwest Kansas Technical College) Malachi Rocquemore’s reason for choosing NPU!  ???  ::)
Being from Buffalo, NY, I can understand the allure of the 2nd city (I know, I know, technically the 3rd), but it would have been nice for him to include an accolade about NPU! 🤫

Good grief, Mark. ::)

Come on Greg. Loosen up a little. You honestly don’t see even a little humor in Rocquemore’s saying the reason he chose NPU was because he “wanted to check out the Windy City,” with nothing whatsoever being said about the merits of NPU itself?  ;D

No, not really. There are dozens and dozens of player bios on the NPU athletics pages, and a large number of them say essentially the same thing: I came to North Park because of the city. Chicago is a big selling point for NPU. That's hardly an indictment of the school.

I'll bet that there are any number of schools out there that have player bios that name something other than the merits of the school itself (the location, the coaches, the chance for playing time, etc.) as the selling point. You can't necessarily expect every Vikings newbie to wax rhapsodic about a school that he or she has never attended before, especially if it's an out-of-state student-athlete such as Roquemore who had probably only visited the school once prior to his arriving in August and being handed the player biography form to fill out during the Orientation Week team meeting.

In other words, it's too commonplace and too easily explained to be funny. It's ho-hum, not ha-ha. It just looks to me like you were trying to stir some crap with that comment. Now, on the other hand, your joke about Buffalo was genuinely funny -- and I say that as someone who was born in Buffalo and who still holds a place in his heart for the Queen City. Bills fan for life!

Disagree. A close observer of this league should be familiar with at least the names of all of the regulars on each of the nine teams. And Reed and Tangen, especially, were regulars who played in most or all of NPU's contests and were part-time starters.

I would submit that it’s not solely the fact the players were in the regular rotation or even that some were part-time starters that identifies them as “readily recognizable.” Instead, those players who can be said to enjoy a high level of recognition are usually those who either appear among the leaders in one or more statistical categories, or that have developed a league wide reputation for a particular non-statistical skill such as being a defensive stalwart.  ;)

I don't think that there's any qualifiers at all. I think that if you're a close observer of the league you know the names of the players who are getting the steady playing time for each team in the league, regardless of their level of competence. It's Box Scores Analysis 101.

If you were to ask me the names of the full- or part-time starters for, say, Carroll last February I would've rattled them off in fifteen seconds or less. That's what following the league at the close-observer level (as opposed to the casual-fan level) is all about.

I'm gonna disagree with this as that bar is crazy high.

A casual fan IMO is someone who can name maybe 5-10 players across the conference and roots for their team/alma mater to win.  There are a couple of thousand of these, largely because that's how many kids on campus are engaged at a minimal level in their school's team.

A close observer can name most (not all) of the starters across the league.  No penalty here for not keeping tabs on the latest goings-on in Waukesha and Decatur.  They should also be able to name the key 2-3 reserves on their team's roster.  Naming anything more than a couple of top reserves on other teams is a big fat bonus.  There are probably somewhere between 100-200 of these at most, excluding (1) families of players, and (2) those individuals formally affiliated with their school's athletic programs or teams (as a broadcaster, you fall into this category).  I exclude these folks because this level of engagement veers more toward requirement than an option, even though they (you) may follow intensely irrespective of their official duties.

A hardcore fan is what you are describing.  Excluding those same family members and affiliated folks, there are maybe a dozen people on this earth who can pass the Carroll test across all schools in the conference.

Online kiko

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48592 on: October 11, 2018, 11:22:01 pm »


I love transfer (from renowned basketball powerhouse Northwest Kansas Technical College) Malachi Rocquemore’s reason for choosing NPU!  ???  ::)
Being from Buffalo, NY, I can understand the allure of the 2nd city (I know, I know, technically the 3rd), but it would have been nice for him to include an accolade about NPU! 🤫

Good grief, Mark. ::)

Come on Greg. Loosen up a little. You honestly don’t see even a little humor in Rocquemore’s saying the reason he chose NPU was because he “wanted to check out the Windy City,” with nothing whatsoever being said about the merits of NPU itself?  ;D

No, not really. There are dozens and dozens of player bios on the NPU athletics pages, and a large number of them say essentially the same thing: I came to North Park because of the city. Chicago is a big selling point for NPU. That's hardly an indictment of the school.

I'll bet that there are any number of schools out there that have player bios that name something other than the merits of the school itself (the location, the coaches, the chance for playing time, etc.) as the selling point. You can't necessarily expect every Vikings newbie to wax rhapsodic about a school that he or she has never attended before, especially if it's an out-of-state student-athlete such as Roquemore who had probably only visited the school once prior to his arriving in August and being handed the player biography form to fill out during the Orientation Week team meeting.

In other words, it's too commonplace and too easily explained to be funny. It's ho-hum, not ha-ha. It just looks to me like you were trying to stir some crap with that comment. Now, on the other hand, your joke about Buffalo was genuinely funny -- and I say that as someone who was born in Buffalo and who still holds a place in his heart for the Queen City. Bills fan for life!

Disagree. A close observer of this league should be familiar with at least the names of all of the regulars on each of the nine teams. And Reed and Tangen, especially, were regulars who played in most or all of NPU's contests and were part-time starters.

I would submit that it’s not solely the fact the players were in the regular rotation or even that some were part-time starters that identifies them as “readily recognizable.” Instead, those players who can be said to enjoy a high level of recognition are usually those who either appear among the leaders in one or more statistical categories, or that have developed a league wide reputation for a particular non-statistical skill such as being a defensive stalwart.  ;)

I don't think that there's any qualifiers at all. I think that if you're a close observer of the league you know the names of the players who are getting the steady playing time for each team in the league, regardless of their level of competence. It's Box Scores Analysis 101.

If you were to ask me the names of the full- or part-time starters for, say, Carroll last February I would've rattled them off in fifteen seconds or less. That's what following the league at the close-observer level (as opposed to the casual-fan level) is all about.

I'm gonna disagree with this as that bar is crazy high.

A casual fan IMO is someone who can name maybe 5-10 players across the conference and roots for their team/alma mater to win.  There are a couple of thousand of these, largely because that's how many kids on campus are engaged at a minimal level in their school's team.

A close observer can name most (not all) of the starters across the league.  No penalty here for not keeping tabs on the latest goings-on in Waukesha and Decatur.  They should also be able to name the key 2-3 reserves on their team's roster.  Naming anything more than a couple of top reserves on other teams is a big fat bonus.  There are probably somewhere between 100-200 of these at most, excluding (1) families of players, and (2) those individuals formally affiliated with their school's athletic programs or teams (as a broadcaster, you fall into this category).  I exclude these folks because this level of engagement veers more toward requirement than an option, even though they (you) may follow intensely irrespective of their official duties.

A hardcore fan is what you are describing.  Excluding those same family members and affiliated folks, there are maybe a dozen people on this earth who can pass the Carroll test across all schools in the conference.

And, of course, an Illinois Wesleyan fan is someone who can name all of the Titans starters, all of their reserves, all of their JV players, and maybe half of the prior season's all conference selections from other schools.  (I keeed, I keeed...)

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48593 on: October 12, 2018, 11:35:18 am »
It has always kinda bugged me that the area around Pestigo, WI, had a fire the same day as Chicago that killed far more people than died in Chicago, yet I dare say not one person in 100 has ever heard about it.  And just this summer, I learned that western Michigan also had a fire that same day that killed more people than died due to "Mrs. O'Leary's cow". :o  That must have been one epic drought in the upper midwest that year (or something)! :(

The Chicago and Peshtigo fires weren't the only fires in this region that flared up on the night of October 8, 1871. That was the same night as the Great Michigan Fire (likely the one you're citing, which consumed the lakefront area between Holland and Manistee, including much of those villages themselves), the Robinsonville (Door County, WI) Fire, and the Port Huron Fire of 1871. In fact, there was a wide belt of major fires that night around the western Great Lakes that ranged up into southwestern Ontario. The region had been subjected to a lot of small fires that autumn, due to the dry conditions and the ongoing practice of clear-cutting forestlands, but the massive fires of the night of October 8 -- many of which, such as the Great Chicago Fire, the fire within Peshtigo itself, and the fire in Holland, took place nowhere near heavily wooded areas -- were different in both size and kind, and have no historical parallel. That has led a lot of people to speculate over the years that a meteor shower produced by the fragmentation of a comet (either Comet Biela or Comet Giaccobi-Zinner, the latter of which is the source of the ongoing Draconid meteor shower) produced all of those simultanous fires across the upper midwestern U.S. and south central Canada that night.

One thing's for certain: The simultanous outbreak of so many major fires that night in Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Ontario can't have been a coincidence. I think that Mrs. O'Leary's cow is off the hook for Chicago's.

The Peshtigo Fire may have been ignored by the rest of the world, Chuck, but it wasn't ignored by Chicago. Ironically, given the proximity of Peshigo Court to Navy Pier and the fact that it is in the tourist-filled River North neighborhood, that tiny Chicago street has probably brought more attention to the 1871 fire that burned down the small Wisconsin village for which the street is named than anything else over the years.

If you're measuring the severity of disasters strictly by death toll, the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 isn't even close to being the worst disaster in the city's history. About 300 people died in the Great Chicago Fire (as compared to about 2,000 who died in the Peshtigo Fire). But 602 people died when the Iroquois Theater (on Randolph between State and Dearborn) burned down on December 30, 1903, and 844 people died when the Eastland capsized in the Chicago River on July 24, 1915.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48594 on: October 12, 2018, 11:41:09 am »
It is hard to argue with definitive, but I believe the second city moniker is still subject to debate.

The interesting thing about the phrase is that it is so commonly used and used around the world to describe the second most populous city.  This practice goes back a long time.

Indeed, the origin and meaning of the Second City nickname are still debated, although it's quite clear that Liebling didn't invent it -- he merely popularized it. But, speaking in more general terms, the city's history by Mayer and Wade keeps getting cited everywhere I look as the landmark source for Chicago lore. I don't own it, but I do own a few other more recent historical books about Chicago, and they pretty consistently cite Mayer and Wade.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48595 on: October 12, 2018, 11:52:44 am »


I love transfer (from renowned basketball powerhouse Northwest Kansas Technical College) Malachi Rocquemore’s reason for choosing NPU!  ???  ::)
Being from Buffalo, NY, I can understand the allure of the 2nd city (I know, I know, technically the 3rd), but it would have been nice for him to include an accolade about NPU! 🤫

Good grief, Mark. ::)

Come on Greg. Loosen up a little. You honestly don’t see even a little humor in Rocquemore’s saying the reason he chose NPU was because he “wanted to check out the Windy City,” with nothing whatsoever being said about the merits of NPU itself?  ;D

No, not really. There are dozens and dozens of player bios on the NPU athletics pages, and a large number of them say essentially the same thing: I came to North Park because of the city. Chicago is a big selling point for NPU. That's hardly an indictment of the school.

I'll bet that there are any number of schools out there that have player bios that name something other than the merits of the school itself (the location, the coaches, the chance for playing time, etc.) as the selling point. You can't necessarily expect every Vikings newbie to wax rhapsodic about a school that he or she has never attended before, especially if it's an out-of-state student-athlete such as Roquemore who had probably only visited the school once prior to his arriving in August and being handed the player biography form to fill out during the Orientation Week team meeting.

In other words, it's too commonplace and too easily explained to be funny. It's ho-hum, not ha-ha. It just looks to me like you were trying to stir some crap with that comment. Now, on the other hand, your joke about Buffalo was genuinely funny -- and I say that as someone who was born in Buffalo and who still holds a place in his heart for the Queen City. Bills fan for life!

Disagree. A close observer of this league should be familiar with at least the names of all of the regulars on each of the nine teams. And Reed and Tangen, especially, were regulars who played in most or all of NPU's contests and were part-time starters.

I would submit that it’s not solely the fact the players were in the regular rotation or even that some were part-time starters that identifies them as “readily recognizable.” Instead, those players who can be said to enjoy a high level of recognition are usually those who either appear among the leaders in one or more statistical categories, or that have developed a league wide reputation for a particular non-statistical skill such as being a defensive stalwart.  ;)

I don't think that there's any qualifiers at all. I think that if you're a close observer of the league you know the names of the players who are getting the steady playing time for each team in the league, regardless of their level of competence. It's Box Scores Analysis 101.

If you were to ask me the names of the full- or part-time starters for, say, Carroll last February I would've rattled them off in fifteen seconds or less. That's what following the league at the close-observer level (as opposed to the casual-fan level) is all about.

I'm gonna disagree with this as that bar is crazy high.

A casual fan IMO is someone who can name maybe 5-10 players across the conference and roots for their team/alma mater to win.  There are a couple of thousand of these, largely because that's how many kids on campus are engaged at a minimal level in their school's team.

A close observer can name most (not all) of the starters across the league.  No penalty here for not keeping tabs on the latest goings-on in Waukesha and Decatur.  They should also be able to name the key 2-3 reserves on their team's roster.  Naming anything more than a couple of top reserves on other teams is a big fat bonus.  There are probably somewhere between 100-200 of these at most, excluding (1) families of players, and (2) those individuals formally affiliated with their school's athletic programs or teams (as a broadcaster, you fall into this category).  I exclude these folks because this level of engagement veers more toward requirement than an option, even though they (you) may follow intensely irrespective of their official duties.

A hardcore fan is what you are describing.  Excluding those same family members and affiliated folks, there are maybe a dozen people on this earth who can pass the Carroll test across all schools in the conference.

Semantics. What I consider to be a close observer is what you're calling a hardcore fan (and I would wager that there's more than a dozen people who can pass the Carroll test, although I certainly agree that the number is very small). What you call a close observer is what I'd call a major fan (although I would say that a major fan ought to be able to name more than two or three reserves off of his favorite team). What I would call an Illinois Wesleyan fan ... well, I'm not going to touch that subject with a ten-foot pole. ;)

Incidentally, I love the idea of the Carroll test being our ongoing barometer for measuring just how devoted somebody is to following this league.
"Talent is God-given. Be humble. Fame is man-given. Be grateful. Conceit is self-given. Be careful..” -- John Wooden

Offline USee

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48596 on: October 12, 2018, 01:39:46 pm »
Veggie Tangen.....

I hope they make the NCAA Tourney!

Offline iwu70

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48597 on: October 12, 2018, 04:27:42 pm »
Are we about to go to our annual listing of fun and funny names in DIII hoops?   

'70

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48598 on: October 12, 2018, 07:10:21 pm »
Veggie Tangen.....


Oh yes, that’s the one with arugula, roasted tomatoes, balsamic mushrooms, and goat cheese.
Would you like small, medium, or large? Pickup or delivery? 🍕 😋
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Offline iwu70

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Re: MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
« Reply #48599 on: October 13, 2018, 01:40:54 pm »
AO, sounds good to me -- add some black olives, some good olive oil and some salt and pepper.   Sounds grand.  :) 

Chilly in Bloomington at game time -- cloudy and about 45 -- IWU hosting EC.  Heading for Tucci Stadium at Wilder Field.

Go TITANS!

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