Author Topic: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association  (Read 5122619 times)

Offline pointlem

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47205 on: May 15, 2019, 05:15:17 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?
I'm an outsider and don't know Bill Sall. It's great when these institutions can increase staff diversity by hiring new faces. But it's also great for Calvin to hire a quality person and coach who has its blood running in his veins . . . someone who knows and loves it from the inside . . . someone who is a Knight in his heart . . . someone who won't be looking to move elsewhere but rather to giving heart and soul to Calvin and to representing it well.

The same, of course, could be said for Greg Mitchell at Hope (and for both schools' women's coaches as well).

Offline Jameswys

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47206 on: May 15, 2019, 05:39:20 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?

As an outsider and someone who’s only read his NMU bio, he sounds like a guy who has taken bad programs and made them good. He in place Ferris’s program before he left and it sounds like he fixed NMUs program from bad to decent. If he can do that at schools without a strong basketball tradition and a bad history, imagine what he can do at a school with a good history and program.
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Offline Goknights2017

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47207 on: May 15, 2019, 05:44:15 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?

As an outsider and someone who’s only read his NMU bio, he sounds like a guy who has taken bad programs and made them good. He in place Ferris’s program before he left and it sounds like he fixed NMUs program from bad to decent. If he can do that at schools without a strong basketball tradition and a bad history, imagine what he can do at a school with a good history and program.

Exactly. He took programs that were struggling and turned them into quality, competitive programs.

Offline KnightSlappy

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47208 on: May 15, 2019, 05:53:06 pm »
Seems like a good hire to me.
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Offline almcguirejr

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47209 on: May 15, 2019, 06:10:52 pm »
FWIW - I spoke to Steve Ernst at the Michigan HS basketball finals.  He told me “Bill Sall would be good for Calvin and good for the league.”
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 07:19:47 pm by almcguirejr »

Offline knights2000

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47210 on: May 15, 2019, 06:25:42 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?

As an outsider and someone who’s only read his NMU bio, he sounds like a guy who has taken bad programs and made them good. He in place Ferris’s program before he left and it sounds like he fixed NMUs program from bad to decent. If he can do that at schools without a strong basketball tradition and a bad history, imagine what he can do at a school with a good history and program.

Exactly. He took programs that were struggling and turned them into quality, competitive programs.

These are not the words I would use to describe 15-13 and 17-12 seasons.

There's an argument to be made that things were better at Ferris, but since he left they've won 140+ games and a national championship in 6 seasons... going from average to great. To me, there's a huge difference in taking a bad 5 win program to 15 wins and taking an average 18 win program to 25 wins.

To be clear, I'm not saying Coach Sall isn't the right hire... I just don't see it as a home run. Perhaps I was unrealistic in my expectations of who this job might attract.

More positively, I was able to catch the replay of the press conference this afternoon. I was impressed by the love and commitment Coach Sall expressed toward Calvin and appreciate his stated approach toward building young men and what I believe is his commitment to using basketball to accomplish the mission of the school.

Offline Goknights2017

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47211 on: May 15, 2019, 06:54:15 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?

As an outsider and someone who’s only read his NMU bio, he sounds like a guy who has taken bad programs and made them good. He in place Ferris’s program before he left and it sounds like he fixed NMUs program from bad to decent. If he can do that at schools without a strong basketball tradition and a bad history, imagine what he can do at a school with a good history and program.

Exactly. He took programs that were struggling and turned them into quality, competitive programs.

These are not the words I would use to describe 15-13 and 17-12 seasons.

There's an argument to be made that things were better at Ferris, but since he left they've won 140+ games and a national championship in 6 seasons... going from average to great. To me, there's a huge difference in taking a bad 5 win program to 15 wins and taking an average 18 win program to 25 wins.

To be clear, I'm not saying Coach Sall isn't the right hire... I just don't see it as a home run. Perhaps I was unrealistic in my expectations of who this job might attract.

More positively, I was able to catch the replay of the press conference this afternoon. I was impressed by the love and commitment Coach Sall expressed toward Calvin and appreciate his stated approach toward building young men and what I believe is his commitment to using basketball to accomplish the mission of the school.

True. I hadn't looked up the exact numbers. However, he certainly turned around some struggling programs. I'm excited to see what he can do. I think he will be a good fit.

Offline goodknight

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47212 on: May 15, 2019, 06:56:23 pm »
Given the quality hire of an experienced college coach for the Calvin women's program, one has to think there will be a big-time hire on the men's side of things as well.
What would a big-time hire be for Calvin? I think VanderWal is the only realistic answer for that, and that is not happening.

IMO, Bill Sall would be considered a big-time hire if that were to occur.

He has 8 winning seasons in 17 as a head coach and a career record under .500

Recent history tells us Ferris State is capable of being a player on the national stage.

FWIW, I think he’s the next coach of the Knights.

I posted this before, and am still genuinely curious why Bill Sall is a "big-time hire" for Calvin. My knowledge of Calvin hoops only goes back 15-20 years, so maybe there's some history I'm unaware of.

My question is genuine, and not meant to be aggressive or overly-critical...I see a coach whose sub-.500 career record indicates to me a "mediocre-at-best" hire. Why is this move so exciting to many Knights fans?

As an outsider and someone who’s only read his NMU bio, he sounds like a guy who has taken bad programs and made them good. He in place Ferris’s program before he left and it sounds like he fixed NMUs program from bad to decent. If he can do that at schools without a strong basketball tradition and a bad history, imagine what he can do at a school with a good history and program.

Exactly. He took programs that were struggling and turned them into quality, competitive programs.

These are not the words I would use to describe 15-13 and 17-12 seasons.

There's an argument to be made that things were better at Ferris, but since he left they've won 140+ games and a national championship in 6 seasons... going from average to great. To me, there's a huge difference in taking a bad 5 win program to 15 wins and taking an average 18 win program to 25 wins.

To be clear, I'm not saying Coach Sall isn't the right hire... I just don't see it as a home run. Perhaps I was unrealistic in my expectations of who this job might attract.

More positively, I was able to catch the replay of the press conference this afternoon. I was impressed by the love and commitment Coach Sall expressed toward Calvin and appreciate his stated approach toward building young men and what I believe is his commitment to using basketball to accomplish the mission of the school.

K2K, it strikes me that this hiring was the best possible outcome for Calvin given the current constraints. I never saw Bill Sall play but I've seen him coach. He's a passionate competitor, and I believe he'll instill a fierce work ethic into the Calvin program. He will bring that same passion to recruiting. He spoke at the press conference of restoring/returning the Calvin basketball program back to the tradition that he experienced as a player. Since you have only 15-20 years of exposure to the Calvin basketball program, you've only seen the program as KVS has shaped it. No coach is perfect, but I've seen Calvin basketball teams led by Barney Steen, Don Vroon, Ralph Honderd and Eddie Douma. Now, Bill Sall will be able to add a fresh flavor to the tradition. I expect it will be spicy at times and much more interesting to watch than the past several seasons have been. 

Offline wiz

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47213 on: May 15, 2019, 07:20:34 pm »
Too bad the Keystone Kops fumbled around so long and allowed so many recruiting opportunities to pass.  But, in the end, they found the right person for the job.  We welcome Bill Sall back to Calvin!
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Offline sac

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47214 on: May 15, 2019, 07:40:49 pm »
As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I would heavily discount Sall's records from his first couple years in Marquette.  He inherited a program with an expected 9 returning players he ended up with 1 by the time his first Fall practice kicked in.  That was a total rebuild from zero.

Ferris State wasn't rock bottom when he took over there but it was close they won 1 GLIAC game the year before he arrived.   They were well down the GLIAC's pecking order and he turned them around quickly winning North Division championships in year 2 and 3.  It was also Sall who gave Bronkema a job at Ferris State who took Ferris a step higher that may or may not have happened under Sall.


The GLIAC is a really competitive D2 league.  5 Different programs have won the North Divison and 5 different programs have won the South Division in the last 10 years.  Some really good coaches in that league as well.  I suppose you can question whether this is a "home run" hire based on record but it seems like Sall ending up at Calvin was always a possibility since Eddie left, was fired, asked to leave, took the Hillsdale job  ????  .....and Sall followed him to Hillsdale and then brought Eddie along to Ferris.  Its a branch of that coaching tree Calvin fans would want I would think.

Its a good hire and honestly kind of expected, just not the way it all went down, that does deserve a 60/60 episode.

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Offline oldknight

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47215 on: May 15, 2019, 08:24:30 pm »
I agree with the comments made by goodknight and sac. I would add that Andy Bronkema made the trek from Ferris to attend Bill’s press conference. The 2018 D2 national championship coach has ultimate respect for Bill Sall and said Calvin could not have gotten a better coach to lead their program.

Offline Jameswys

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47216 on: May 15, 2019, 08:36:58 pm »
I agree with the comments made by goodknight and sac. I would add that Andy Bronkema made the trek from Ferris to attend Bill’s press conference. The 2018 D2 national championship coach has ultimate respect for Bill Sall and said Calvin could not have gotten a better coach to lead their program.

This speaks volumes about this hire. Calvin fans should be happy with Bill Sall.

I personally was hoping Calvin would spend a few more months looking for a coach... because, hey, Calvin’s a rival. 😂
Olivet '05

Offline Bilk

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47217 on: May 15, 2019, 11:22:02 pm »
Whether he knows it or not, MaroonMighty already nailed it.
So, in other words, this:
Calvin search is apparently down to two. A high school coach and a D3 coach
Yep.  Heard as well that Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening.  That's too bad.
... was wrong?
No, he was right.
To be clear, I'm not saying Coach Sall isn't the right hire... I just don't see it as a home run. Perhaps I was unrealistic in my expectations of who this job might attract.
I can't pretend to know what your expectations were, but unless quality coaches are attracted by intense pressure, middling compensation, part-time assistants, and a bit of a couch fire, the applicant pool would be shallow.
Too bad the Keystone Kops fumbled around so long...
Let's hope those Kops can be distracted by the Case of the Missing Moses and so they quit meddling in things they don't understand.
... allowed so many recruiting opportunities to pass.
How many recruits was Calvin in-on that signed a Letter of Intent? As the great "Lefty" Driesell once said, "I love verbal commitments. That way I know who I'm recruiting against."
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 12:13:36 am by Bilk »

Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47218 on: May 16, 2019, 12:02:11 am »
Whether he knows it or not, MaroonMighty already nailed it.
So, in other words, this:
Calvin search is apparently down to two. A high school coach and a D3 coach
Yep.  Heard as well that Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening.  That's too bad.
... was wrong?
No, he was right.

OK, then, so what am I missing here?

1) GoKnights68 says that "Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening."
2) Bill Sall is not only "happening", he is announced as Calvin's new coach today.

Even though Coach Sall apparently had earlier turned down a Calvin offer and then changed his mind after Calvin had subsequently sweetened that offer, that doesn't change the fact that the statement "Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening" ultimately proved to be wrong -- even though it may have been right at the time the post was made.

He didn't say, "Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening unless Calvin comes back to him with a better offer." He said, definitively and without qualififcation, "Bill Sall to Calvin won't be happening." Period.
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Offline Bilk

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47219 on: May 16, 2019, 12:21:16 am »
OK, then, so what am I missing here?
Even though Coach Sall apparently had earlier turned down a Calvin offer and then changed his mind after Calvin had subsequently sweetened that offer...
I'm not sure that was the case. No more sugar was added to the pot–maybe a stronger, more durable pot was offered.
OK, then, so what am I missing here?
IIRR. At the time, and then one more time–it was right that Sall was not an option. But you're right, it did happen... in spite of. Thank goodness for Timmer Jr. As this was all predestined, God is a trickster sometimes.