Author Topic: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association  (Read 5160514 times)

Offline MaroonKnighty

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 197
  • Karma: +348/-338
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47430 on: September 09, 2019, 12:22:02 pm »
Yeah, according to the Kalamazoo website, a high school GPA of 3.0 gets you $21,000 merit scholarship.  That certainly goes up with the GPA.  And, does not reflect need-based institutional money.

That's interesting because Kalamazoo is by far the most difficult MIAA school to get into. The average accepted applicant has something like a 3.9 GPA.

I just barely missed getting in there.

Offline WUPHF

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3351
  • Karma: +181/-45
  • Bowling alone
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47431 on: September 09, 2019, 06:04:33 pm »
That's interesting because Kalamazoo is by far the most difficult MIAA school to get into. The average accepted applicant has something like a 3.9 GPA.

That is very impressive.

I looked and they do early decision and everything.

I guess they have a scholarship for a 3.0 candidate just in case.  The common practice is to have a matrix that includes one row for the GPA and one for the ACT along with corresponding scholarship amount.

Offline KzooHornet

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Karma: +46/-3
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47432 on: September 09, 2019, 08:37:00 pm »
Yeah, according to the Kalamazoo website, a high school GPA of 3.0 gets you $21,000 merit scholarship.  That certainly goes up with the GPA.  And, does not reflect need-based institutional money.

Could you post a link to where you found that exact information?  I am interested to see how things may have changed since my time there and I am having some trouble finding that particular piece of information. 

I should probably have my 9-year old look for it.  He is way better with a computer than I am.

Offline WUPHF

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3351
  • Karma: +181/-45
  • Bowling alone
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47433 on: September 09, 2019, 10:22:55 pm »
Yes, Kalamazoo, like a lot of schools, has a net-cost calculator which estimates the merit scholarship based on whatever GPA you list.

Offline sflzman

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • Karma: +268/-59
  • Welcome to SCOT-land!
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47434 on: September 10, 2019, 02:44:11 am »
I know the question comes up every now and then around the boards with the argument of d3 starter vs d2/d1 walk on.

With sticker prices like this in the MIAA it would make turning down that walk on spot at SVSU, Lake State, etc. a pretty difficult decision for a lot of kids I would assume. Especially when you throw in the two new non-Michigan GLIAC additions Purdue Northwest (which offers Michigan residents a variation of in-state tuition) and UW Parkside (which also is nowhere near the bottom of the MIAA when it comes to full costs) I really think that the MIAA schools will start to lose out more and more often to those schools.

And not even just for them to take walk on spots, for them to just decide to pass on collegiate athletics at all. The tuition rates across the MIAA are just crazy.
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare

Offline hopefan

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8313
  • Karma: +748/-135
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47435 on: September 10, 2019, 08:01:49 am »
I know the question comes up every now and then around the boards with the argument of d3 starter vs d2/d1 walk on.

With sticker prices like this in the MIAA it would make turning down that walk on spot at SVSU, Lake State, etc. a pretty difficult decision for a lot of kids I would assume. Especially when you throw in the two new non-Michigan GLIAC additions Purdue Northwest (which offers Michigan residents a variation of in-state tuition) and UW Parkside (which also is nowhere near the bottom of the MIAA when it comes to full costs) I really think that the MIAA schools will start to lose out more and more often to those schools.

And not even just for them to take walk on spots, for them to just decide to pass on collegiate athletics at all. The tuition rates across the MIAA are just crazy.

I'm way out of tune with college costs, but how does the MIAA compare to the CCIW, or other Great Lakes conferences such as the OAC, NCAC, or HCAC?
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

Online Flying Dutch Fan

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +1237/-936
  • Spera in Deo
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47436 on: September 10, 2019, 09:13:24 am »
I know the question comes up every now and then around the boards with the argument of d3 starter vs d2/d1 walk on.

With sticker prices like this in the MIAA it would make turning down that walk on spot at SVSU, Lake State, etc. a pretty difficult decision for a lot of kids I would assume. Especially when you throw in the two new non-Michigan GLIAC additions Purdue Northwest (which offers Michigan residents a variation of in-state tuition) and UW Parkside (which also is nowhere near the bottom of the MIAA when it comes to full costs) I really think that the MIAA schools will start to lose out more and more often to those schools.

And not even just for them to take walk on spots, for them to just decide to pass on collegiate athletics at all. The tuition rates across the MIAA are just crazy.

I'm way out of tune with college costs, but how does the MIAA compare to the CCIW, or other Great Lakes conferences such as the OAC, NCAC, or HCAC?

You're the retiree HF, sounds like a good thing for you to research for us all :)
2016 MIAA Pick 'Em Champion

"Sports are kind of like passion and that's temporary in many cases, but academics - that's like true love and that's enduring." 
John Wooden

"Blame FDF.  That's the default.  Always blame FDF."
goodknight

Offline WUPHF

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3351
  • Karma: +181/-45
  • Bowling alone
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47437 on: September 10, 2019, 09:58:13 am »
I'm way out of tune with college costs, but how does the MIAA compare to the CCIW, or other Great Lakes conferences such as the OAC, NCAC, or HCAC?

In terms of sticker price, the MIAA is comparable to the CCIW and significantly more expensive than the SLIAC.  But, in terms of what the average basketball player is paying, I would better that this can vary by $5,000-10,000 or more as you compare institution to institution.

Offline hopefan

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 8313
  • Karma: +748/-135
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47438 on: September 10, 2019, 10:06:06 am »
I know the question comes up every now and then around the boards with the argument of d3 starter vs d2/d1 walk on.

With sticker prices like this in the MIAA it would make turning down that walk on spot at SVSU, Lake State, etc. a pretty difficult decision for a lot of kids I would assume. Especially when you throw in the two new non-Michigan GLIAC additions Purdue Northwest (which offers Michigan residents a variation of in-state tuition) and UW Parkside (which also is nowhere near the bottom of the MIAA when it comes to full costs) I really think that the MIAA schools will start to lose out more and more often to those schools.

And not even just for them to take walk on spots, for them to just decide to pass on collegiate athletics at all. The tuition rates across the MIAA are just crazy.

I'm way out of tune with college costs, but how does the MIAA compare to the CCIW, or other Great Lakes conferences such as the OAC, NCAC, or HCAC?

You're the retiree HF, sounds like a good thing for you to research for us all :)

Darn FDF, that would cut into my nap time!!!! ;D ;D ;D.... hey, hoping you and CM  are coming down to Orlando for December Tourney!!!!
The only thing not to be liked in Florida is no D3 hoops!!!

Online Flying Dutch Fan

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +1237/-936
  • Spera in Deo
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47439 on: September 10, 2019, 11:08:06 am »
I know the question comes up every now and then around the boards with the argument of d3 starter vs d2/d1 walk on.

With sticker prices like this in the MIAA it would make turning down that walk on spot at SVSU, Lake State, etc. a pretty difficult decision for a lot of kids I would assume. Especially when you throw in the two new non-Michigan GLIAC additions Purdue Northwest (which offers Michigan residents a variation of in-state tuition) and UW Parkside (which also is nowhere near the bottom of the MIAA when it comes to full costs) I really think that the MIAA schools will start to lose out more and more often to those schools.

And not even just for them to take walk on spots, for them to just decide to pass on collegiate athletics at all. The tuition rates across the MIAA are just crazy.

I'm way out of tune with college costs, but how does the MIAA compare to the CCIW, or other Great Lakes conferences such as the OAC, NCAC, or HCAC?

You're the retiree HF, sounds like a good thing for you to research for us all :)

Darn FDF, that would cut into my nap time!!!! ;D ;D ;D.... hey, hoping you and CM  are coming down to Orlando for December Tourney!!!!

Haha!!  Wish we were coming down, but not going to happen for us this time.  Too busy being first-time grandparents to make the trip
2016 MIAA Pick 'Em Champion

"Sports are kind of like passion and that's temporary in many cases, but academics - that's like true love and that's enduring." 
John Wooden

"Blame FDF.  That's the default.  Always blame FDF."
goodknight

Offline formerd3db

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 6001
  • Karma: +1944/-170
  • Go Hope!
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47440 on: September 10, 2019, 06:15:14 pm »
Interesting, formerd3db. Of course, what you've given is the sticker price.  What's more relevant is the "net tuition" after discounts and scholarships. I believe that information is available, though I'm unsure where.

I know that.  I essentially said that in my post i.e. that being the sticker price but IF the student-athlete opted for all the amenities, which many do not.  Moreover, we know that most people do not pay the full tuition price because of all the scholarships and need-base aid, grants, etc.  I noted that only for Olivet i.e. the % of students who receive some type of financial aid, perhaps should have for the other schools as well.  However, attempting to put all the information for the "net tuition" costs would have been too extensive (and time consuming) and I know that most of you already knew that "net cost" was not the "sticker" price for most students at any of our MIAA schools.  That information can be located (at least the general statistics of those costs) on the Internet and most websites of the schools.  For a great number of students, the "net cost" is about half and/or at least nearer to/in-line with going to a state university (but not participating in one's sport), which makes it much more feasible for many people. 

I will say, however, that there are certainly some student-athletes (and/or non-athlete students) who do end up having to pay the full sticker price (after the Michigan Merit scholarship is used up for the first year).  Not everyone can qualify for scholarships, including ones that a student would compete for, such some scholarship programs that include essay contests, etc.

And finally, I will just briefly do a follow-up comment to sflzman's post regarding the walk-on opportunities.  This, perhaps, is more pertinent to football at our level, due to the increased number of DII and NAIA schools that are in our state and region and that have increased in number.  Even though they offer partial scholarships for football, that certainly helps in a big way for parent's (or the student's themselves) footing the total cost of the college education. In football, if your son is good enough to play at the DII level (and many are) then where do you think many of them are going to go if a) either their parents can't afford to send them to an MIAA school or b) they don't get enough additional financial aid (need based or otherwise i.e. other scholarships) to cut the cost to at least comparable to going to the DII school or going to a state school and not playing their sport?  I suggest (as do many others) that is one reason why we (the MIAA) at least in football, are not getting the larger numbers of talented players like we used to many years ago.  Of course, other factors come into play in all of this such as considerations for specific academic tracts that a student desires to pursue, the college campus and/or town itself, distance from home, etc., etc.

Anyway, as I alluded to, I posted the tuition "sticker price" information for further follow-up commentary from the original discussion and, at least in that regard, I guess I was successful! ;)  Thanks for everyone's input and opinions-I enjoyed reading those.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Offline WUPHF

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3351
  • Karma: +181/-45
  • Bowling alone
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47441 on: September 10, 2019, 07:18:09 pm »
The discount rate is too critical to the conversation to begin and end with the sticker price.  The discount rate drives the decision.

The Hechinger folks are bringing over tuition-only data from NCES so it is a few years old and it is usually good and generally accurate enough for any conversation on the boards: http://www.tuitiontracker.org/.

Though, that Olivet data looks way off given the Pell numbers.

Calvin net: $16,882 for high need all the way to $30,179 for familes making $110K or more.  Less than 30% are on Pell Grants.  Nearly 100% are getting some financial aid, less than 60% are getting loans.

Olivet net: $20,813 for high need all the way to $22,885 for familes making $110K or more.  Nearly 50% are getting Pell grants.  Nearly 100% are getting some financial aid, less than 90% are getting loans.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 12062
  • Karma: +652/-342
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47442 on: September 11, 2019, 05:00:23 pm »

The move we're seeing here in the east, with a more intense competition, are the schools just eliminating their discounts and cutting the sticker price to match.  Even if they cost the same out of pocket, many schools are finding a $20k sticker price with little aid is a better sell than $40k with a discount.  Not sure that'll work in the long term, but it's an interesting marketing and recruitment ploy.
Lead Columnist for D3hoops.com
@ryanalanscott just about anywhere

Offline HoopsCoach

  • Junior Varsity
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: +17/-7
    • View Profile
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47443 on: September 13, 2019, 03:14:50 pm »
Little news on the Hope front - TJ VanKoevering has reportedly decided to leave school (not enrolling elsewhere). And per Instagram, 2018 JV Head Coach Damon Jones has taken a role with the GR Drive as Director OG Basketball Operations.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 9963
  • Karma: +707/-427
  • Broadcaster, Announcer, Analyst, and Fan!
    • View Profile
    • Hoopsville
Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47444 on: September 13, 2019, 03:22:07 pm »

The move we're seeing here in the east, with a more intense competition, are the schools just eliminating their discounts and cutting the sticker price to match.  Even if they cost the same out of pocket, many schools are finding a $20k sticker price with little aid is a better sell than $40k with a discount.  Not sure that'll work in the long term, but it's an interesting marketing and recruitment ploy.

York (PA) is one of the first to have this model and for the most part it has worked for them. Albright announced the same model about halfway through last academic year - it was a large hint that rumors of YCP's departure from the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth were accurate.

I personally think the "actual price" versus "sticker price" (inflated number in my mind) is a better tactic. It tells the truth about the cost of college. Someone can tell me they got $20k off the cost of going to college and I chuckle ... they are still paying more than the actual cost to go to the college.

Anyway ... I wouldn't be surprised if more schools head in this direction. I just saw a handful of colleges announce similar business models in the last few weeks.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.