Author Topic: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association  (Read 5394930 times)

Offline formerd3db

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47385 on: September 10, 2019, 06:15:14 pm »
Interesting, formerd3db. Of course, what you've given is the sticker price.  What's more relevant is the "net tuition" after discounts and scholarships. I believe that information is available, though I'm unsure where.

I know that.  I essentially said that in my post i.e. that being the sticker price but IF the student-athlete opted for all the amenities, which many do not.  Moreover, we know that most people do not pay the full tuition price because of all the scholarships and need-base aid, grants, etc.  I noted that only for Olivet i.e. the % of students who receive some type of financial aid, perhaps should have for the other schools as well.  However, attempting to put all the information for the "net tuition" costs would have been too extensive (and time consuming) and I know that most of you already knew that "net cost" was not the "sticker" price for most students at any of our MIAA schools.  That information can be located (at least the general statistics of those costs) on the Internet and most websites of the schools.  For a great number of students, the "net cost" is about half and/or at least nearer to/in-line with going to a state university (but not participating in one's sport), which makes it much more feasible for many people. 

I will say, however, that there are certainly some student-athletes (and/or non-athlete students) who do end up having to pay the full sticker price (after the Michigan Merit scholarship is used up for the first year).  Not everyone can qualify for scholarships, including ones that a student would compete for, such some scholarship programs that include essay contests, etc.

And finally, I will just briefly do a follow-up comment to sflzman's post regarding the walk-on opportunities.  This, perhaps, is more pertinent to football at our level, due to the increased number of DII and NAIA schools that are in our state and region and that have increased in number.  Even though they offer partial scholarships for football, that certainly helps in a big way for parent's (or the student's themselves) footing the total cost of the college education. In football, if your son is good enough to play at the DII level (and many are) then where do you think many of them are going to go if a) either their parents can't afford to send them to an MIAA school or b) they don't get enough additional financial aid (need based or otherwise i.e. other scholarships) to cut the cost to at least comparable to going to the DII school or going to a state school and not playing their sport?  I suggest (as do many others) that is one reason why we (the MIAA) at least in football, are not getting the larger numbers of talented players like we used to many years ago.  Of course, other factors come into play in all of this such as considerations for specific academic tracts that a student desires to pursue, the college campus and/or town itself, distance from home, etc., etc.

Anyway, as I alluded to, I posted the tuition "sticker price" information for further follow-up commentary from the original discussion and, at least in that regard, I guess I was successful! ;)  Thanks for everyone's input and opinions-I enjoyed reading those.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47386 on: September 10, 2019, 07:18:09 pm »
The discount rate is too critical to the conversation to begin and end with the sticker price.  The discount rate drives the decision.

The Hechinger folks are bringing over tuition-only data from NCES so it is a few years old and it is usually good and generally accurate enough for any conversation on the boards: http://www.tuitiontracker.org/.

Though, that Olivet data looks way off given the Pell numbers.

Calvin net: $16,882 for high need all the way to $30,179 for familes making $110K or more.  Less than 30% are on Pell Grants.  Nearly 100% are getting some financial aid, less than 60% are getting loans.

Olivet net: $20,813 for high need all the way to $22,885 for familes making $110K or more.  Nearly 50% are getting Pell grants.  Nearly 100% are getting some financial aid, less than 90% are getting loans.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47387 on: September 11, 2019, 05:00:23 pm »

The move we're seeing here in the east, with a more intense competition, are the schools just eliminating their discounts and cutting the sticker price to match.  Even if they cost the same out of pocket, many schools are finding a $20k sticker price with little aid is a better sell than $40k with a discount.  Not sure that'll work in the long term, but it's an interesting marketing and recruitment ploy.
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Offline HoopsCoach

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47388 on: September 13, 2019, 03:14:50 pm »
Little news on the Hope front - TJ VanKoevering has reportedly decided to leave school (not enrolling elsewhere). And per Instagram, 2018 JV Head Coach Damon Jones has taken a role with the GR Drive as Director OG Basketball Operations.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47389 on: September 13, 2019, 03:22:07 pm »

The move we're seeing here in the east, with a more intense competition, are the schools just eliminating their discounts and cutting the sticker price to match.  Even if they cost the same out of pocket, many schools are finding a $20k sticker price with little aid is a better sell than $40k with a discount.  Not sure that'll work in the long term, but it's an interesting marketing and recruitment ploy.

York (PA) is one of the first to have this model and for the most part it has worked for them. Albright announced the same model about halfway through last academic year - it was a large hint that rumors of YCP's departure from the CAC for the MAC Commonwealth were accurate.

I personally think the "actual price" versus "sticker price" (inflated number in my mind) is a better tactic. It tells the truth about the cost of college. Someone can tell me they got $20k off the cost of going to college and I chuckle ... they are still paying more than the actual cost to go to the college.

Anyway ... I wouldn't be surprised if more schools head in this direction. I just saw a handful of colleges announce similar business models in the last few weeks.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47390 on: September 13, 2019, 04:34:56 pm »
I obviously find the topic fascinating so I'll have to limit myself here, but it is an interesting time to be in enrollment management.

A few weeks ago, I was looking at a university magazine that was focused on college affordability.  A parent mentioned how he may need to mortgage his house to pay for tuition.  That magazine was from 1968.

I do remember back in 2003 or 2004, North Park made waves in the Midwest when they adjusted their tuition.  North Park currently charges over $31K which is certainly more than they were charging before the adjustment years ago.

Central College just dropped their tuition to $18K: https://news.central.edu/2019/09/central-announces-new-tuition/

That is a good way to get attention in a crowded market of liberal arts colleges, though I am not sure what would happen if every college between Buena Vista and Wartburg did the same.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47391 on: September 13, 2019, 05:31:08 pm »

It can be worse, guys.  I talked to a Centennial Conference coach 3-4 years ago who was complaining about losing a recruit to a conference rival.  The kid called saying, "I wish I could come, coach, but ____________ offered a better finaid package... $20,000 more... per year."
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Offline sac

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Offline sac

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47393 on: September 13, 2019, 11:02:49 pm »
Little news on the Hope front - TJ VanKoevering has reportedly decided to leave school (not enrolling elsewhere). And per Instagram, 2018 JV Head Coach Damon Jones has taken a role with the GR Drive as Director OG Basketball Operations.

Really tough news on TJ, wish him the best.  Was really looking forward to seeing TJ's great athletic skills at Hope College.  Best of luck to Damon Jones as well.
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Offline WUPHF

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47394 on: September 14, 2019, 12:08:32 am »
Timely: https://hope.edu/news/2019/campus-life/hope-president-names-free-tuition-as-top-goal-during-inaugural-address.html

Scogin acknowledged that achieving the goal of free tuition wont be easy.  This is a big ambition, he said.  So large that it probably sounds crazy and unachievable.

Yes, crazy and unachievable.

Offline MaroonKnighty

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47395 on: September 15, 2019, 03:43:22 pm »
Timely: https://hope.edu/news/2019/campus-life/hope-president-names-free-tuition-as-top-goal-during-inaugural-address.html

Scogin acknowledged that achieving the goal of free tuition wont be easy.  This is a big ambition, he said.  So large that it probably sounds crazy and unachievable.

Yes, crazy and unachievable.

Truth

Offline Flying Dutch Fan

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47396 on: September 16, 2019, 08:41:19 am »
Timely: https://hope.edu/news/2019/campus-life/hope-president-names-free-tuition-as-top-goal-during-inaugural-address.html

Scogin acknowledged that achieving the goal of free tuition won’t be easy.  “This is a big ambition,” he said.  “So large that it probably sounds crazy and unachievable.”

Yes, crazy and unachievable.

Truth

Scogin also said this:

"We are taking a hard look at ways we can rethink our cost structure.  But organizations do not shrink on the way to greatness. Our path toward greatness involves growing, growing our scholarship support. 

So I am asking us to channel the pioneer spirit that inspired our immigrant founders, who believed this institution could change the world… I’m asking us to re-ignite that passion and be a place that chooses to be a leader, a place that chooses to climb the highest mountain, a place that chooses to take on one of the most significant challenges facing society today: access and affordability of higher education.

Ultimately we accept this challenge, not just because we believe in what Hope College can do.  We accept this challenge because we have faith in a big God.   

If Hope is a God-centered school, we ought to have God-sized ambitions for ourselves. And we do.
"
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 08:43:32 am by Flying Dutch Fan »
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Offline sac

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47397 on: September 16, 2019, 08:39:59 pm »
I noticed he never used the word 'university'.

 ;)
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Offline ziggy

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47398 on: September 17, 2019, 03:06:03 pm »
Kalamazoo has a new head men's basketball coach: https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/mbkb/2019-20/releases/20190917gcc0jb
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #47399 on: September 17, 2019, 03:33:09 pm »
Interesting hire. I'm mildly surprised that Kalamazoo was willing to hire someone with no previous head-coaching experience, but the combination of his being a Michigander and his experience assisting a successful program at a highly-selective D3 school (in this case, Williams) seems to have outweighed the fact that he'll be a novice head coach.
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