Author Topic: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association  (Read 6307841 times)

Offline KnightSlappy

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48975 on: February 23, 2021, 03:13:11 pm »
For now it appears Wednesday's Kalamazoo at Calvin game is still on. It's been two weeks since the Knights' last game.

Offline Knight2Day

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48976 on: February 23, 2021, 03:34:46 pm »
I think there will always be a market for a Calvin and a market for a Hillsdale and I would not be surprised to see it grow as colleges and universities move further left of 2008-2016 era Obama leftism. 

The growth of the classical school movement signals that this may be the case.

For sure, there will always be a market for a Conservative Christian education, but changing with the demands of today's generation doesn't necessarily mean becoming more liberal in thought or identity.

I can’t speak for hope, but as a Calvin alumni, the school has trended pretty wide astray from traditional values and biblical principles regarding gender and sexuality in the name of “inclusivity,” especially in the last 5-7 years. I can’t count how many “Calvin” families I know that are looking elsewhere because of this.

I haven't posted here in years but still lurking, reading and following Calvin bball. I'm another of those families that has had multiple generations attend Calvin and I'd be hard pressed to encourage my kids to attend in light of the trend in biblical values and principles that Calvin has veered away from.  I think you hit the nail on the head.

While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

Probably none, but I didn’t say I would send my kids to an MIAA school. I would trend to a Wheaton or Hillsdale for my kids. If you want to go to a school that has a “religious background” but doesn’t stay true to its biblical roots, there’s plenty of those to choose from, especially for the price tag that Calvin has now. Calvin is in real danger of losing the “soul” of what the college is and has been for generations in the name of modernization. I think it says someone important to be “in the world but not OF the world” and something to the effect of “you will be mocked for following me,” not sure it said “change with the times to fit societal norms.”
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Offline HOPEful

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48977 on: February 23, 2021, 03:36:19 pm »
While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

Lol... +k

I've been fighting off the urge to make a snarky comment regarding "biblical principles" and "traditional values" all day.
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Offline HOPEful

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48978 on: February 23, 2021, 03:47:31 pm »
While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

My vote's with St. Mary's :)
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Offline wiz

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48979 on: February 23, 2021, 08:11:44 pm »
While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

My vote's with St. Mary's :)
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Offline Knight2Day

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48980 on: February 24, 2021, 07:01:23 am »
While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

Lol... +k

I've been fighting off the urge to make a snarky comment regarding "biblical principles" and "traditional values" all day.

Wouldn’t take it to seriously coming from you. Hopes been dealing with their own doctrinal decay for about 20 years now.
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Offline HOPEful

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48981 on: February 24, 2021, 07:13:12 am »
Wouldn’t take it to seriously coming from you. Hopes been dealing with their own doctrinal decay for about 20 years now.

That's good, because I wouldn't have said it in a serious manner. Not really of the opinion that the MIAA Men's Basketball thread is the appropriate forum for theological debate.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 08:52:56 am by HOPEful »
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Offline sac

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48982 on: February 24, 2021, 08:23:54 am »
All 7:30 starts tonight:
Olivet at Alma
Kalamazoo at Calvin
Adrian at Albion

Tomorrow
Hope at Adrian 7pm

Crunch time for seeding for whatever next weeks tournament looks like.
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Offline GoKnights68

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48983 on: February 24, 2021, 09:23:16 am »
While you have been lurking, have you been able to determine which MIAA school has better principles and biblical values?

My vote's with St. Mary's :)

To go a bit outside the MIAA, my vote is for Jerry Fallwell Jr University
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 09:38:16 am by GoKnights68 »

Offline HOPEful

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48984 on: February 24, 2021, 09:48:04 am »
To go a bit outside the MIAA, my vote is for Jerry Fallwell Jr University

I believe it's Jerry Prevo University now, but who can keep up with all the name changes these days?
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48985 on: February 24, 2021, 10:15:20 am »
Wouldn’t take it to seriously coming from you. Hopes been dealing with their own doctrinal decay for about 20 years now.

That's good, because I wouldn't have said it in a serious manner. Not really of the opinion that the MIAA Men's Basketball thread is the appropriate forum for theological debate.

Beyond the theological merits, it's a real concern for a lot of schools.  I went to Eastern Nazarene College, which is a denominational-affiliated school as well.  There's a real tension between what parents want out of their child's religious education and what the students want that's putting a lot of pressure on enrollment and administration.

The schools trying to hold together a robust educational experience and a conservative-leaning theological tradition are really struggling.  You make the joke, but there's a lot of parents who'd rather send their kid to Liberty and know for sure what's being taught than "risk" their kid being exposed to a wider range of ideas and perhaps choosing something the parents wouldn't approve of.

You don't have to get into the rights and wrongs of each approach to recognize its existence and the genuine problems it creates for schools.
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Offline Gregory Sager

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48986 on: February 24, 2021, 10:28:41 am »
Well said, Ryan.
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Offline HOPEful

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48987 on: February 24, 2021, 10:41:50 am »
You don't have to get into the rights and wrongs of each approach to recognize its existence and the genuine problems it creates for schools.

Agreed. Especially when the views of donors (typically a generation or two removed) are in stark contrast with those of current students/families. This can be particularly complicated when donor gifts come with conditions.

But I personally tend to have a difficult time taking seriously anyone afraid that their adult children might be exposed to ideas. It is possible to be both a vibrant, caring academic community where faith and the pursuit of knowledge intersect...  it seems to be that the “conservative-leaning theological tradition” is most often called into question on the issues of alcohol/drugs, sexual orientation, gender roles, and abortion, as though these were the cornerstones on which faith is built.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 11:13:30 am by HOPEful »
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Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48988 on: February 24, 2021, 12:18:48 pm »
Wouldn’t take it to seriously coming from you. Hopes been dealing with their own doctrinal decay for about 20 years now.

That's good, because I wouldn't have said it in a serious manner. Not really of the opinion that the MIAA Men's Basketball thread is the appropriate forum for theological debate.

Beyond the theological merits, it's a real concern for a lot of schools.  I went to Eastern Nazarene College, which is a denominational-affiliated school as well.  There's a real tension between what parents want out of their child's religious education and what the students want that's putting a lot of pressure on enrollment and administration.

The schools trying to hold together a robust educational experience and a conservative-leaning theological tradition are really struggling.  You make the joke, but there's a lot of parents who'd rather send their kid to Liberty and know for sure what's being taught than "risk" their kid being exposed to a wider range of ideas and perhaps choosing something the parents wouldn't approve of.

You don't have to get into the rights and wrongs of each approach to recognize its existence and the genuine problems it creates for schools.

I really appreciate this perspective and a great reason why I love hearing Ryan's takes on many things ... but I also shake my head at some of this. Not Ryan's points at all, but knowing the idea that parents, especially of a lot of religious-minded bases, don't want their children to be exposed or introduced to ideas outside of those guiding principals or foundations.

I'm not saying those ideas are wrong in anyway, but being exposed to a lot of different ideas, cultures, guidelines, etc. makes for a better person and human being in my opinion. The idea parents want to keep their children within the fence posts, as it where, is sad - even though, I know where this comes from and I know many who have lived these lives especially in more religiously strong families (and these exist in every religion around the world).

I appreciate my parents allowed me to have an open mind and open eyes and open ears. I appreciated my year traveling in Up With People and it has shaped who I am ever since. Sadly, too many follow those fence posts to much those posts move in tighter and tighter each generation and likely do more harm than good for individuals and the world in general.

Again, I get it. I understand it. And I appreciate how Ryan provides the perspective(s) of institutions trying to work their way through this as well. Sadly, it will result in schools either losing their "souls," though that is based on individual's thinking more than the group, or closing up shop altogether.

Schools have to adjust and change or they won't survive - ESPECIALLY right now when enrollments are already on the decline, before the pandemic, and the famed 2025 cliff is coming. My alma mater in the 1980s understood if they didn't go co-ed, despite denouncement and anger from alumae especially of the 70s, the school would no longer exist. Yes, they still have bucked to alumae a bit too much since (a longer story), but they are still open.

I may be rambling here, but we will see a number of institutions across the board of all kinds close in the near future. We will also see a number shift direction or design to adjust to the road in front of them. How they all do it and what it all looks like will be both fascinating to watch and maybe scary and unwelcome to those close to it.
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Offline KnightSlappy

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Re: MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
« Reply #48989 on: February 24, 2021, 12:55:03 pm »
All 7:30 starts tonight:
Olivet at Alma
Kalamazoo at Calvin
Adrian at Albion

Tomorrow
Hope at Adrian 7pm

Crunch time for seeding for whatever next weeks tournament looks like.

It'll be interesting what happens if Calvin finishes 3-0 having not played Trine or Albion (or Hope or Alma for that matter). Would they get a #2 seed or would they determine seeding by number of wins rather than percentage? I'm not sure if the MIAA has made a declaration on any of that?