Author Topic: MBB: Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference  (Read 286702 times)

N

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MBB: Northern Athletics Collegiate Conference
« on: March 01, 2005, 04:11:19 pm »
Ok as usual....every year there are some questionable calls on the all conference team... <BR> <BR>Peets of CU...averaged 11pts overall and 13 in conference with 5-6reb a game....all conference worthy? Or is the league down that much this year? <BR> <BR>Kris Saiberlich of Lakeland....averaged 13pts a game and 2 rebs...once again is that all conference worthy? <BR> <BR>SNUBS <BR>Averkamp (EC...look at the numbers and compare to others) <BR>Murphey (MSOE, never seen him play but his numbers are as good if not better then some on the all-conference)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 05:34:01 pm by Pat Coleman »

Offline trey

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2005, 05:26:25 pm »
I could argue with the all-conference picks, but I'm more interested in the COY.  I don't think Coach Larsen deserves it, frankly; his team was picked to finish second in conference, and while they took first, they did so in part because the preseason fave (CUW) lost its best player, Wietor.

Then again, no team seeded #1 in the LMC tourney has won in a while, so maybe the selection makes more sense.  For the most part, all of the teams in the conference finished about where expected; I guess the voters had nowhere else to turn with their selection except to the coach of the first-place team.

Offline pannounce

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2005, 05:27:55 pm »
Ohhhhh Pretty Kev didn't get the nod for the POY, brings a tear to my eye.  That a boy Coop.  

Here is something I don't understand...why in the world is Kris Saiberlich on the all LMC team, but Averkamp is the Rookie of the Year and only on honorable mention??  That makes no sense.  Averkamp has some of the best numbers in the conference.  Peets gets the nod ahead of Charlie??  Come on, what is going on here?  Maranatha didn't get a win in conference all  year and they have equal representation in the all LMC and honorable mention as MSOE and Marian.  Again, makes no sense.  But whatever, Edgewood sweeps the big awards for this season, good to see, good to see.

PA

Offline trey

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2005, 05:29:18 pm »
I forgot--I still maintain Christensen was more valuable to his team than Cooper.  This begs the question, is there a difference between the league's POY and an MVP?

I still wonder if the voters (coaches?) are instructed to take the LMC tournament into account.  As you know, the NBA doesn't count the postseason, and I don't believe D-1 conferences count their tourneys, either.  I think the LMC should have seperate POY awards for the regular season and the tournament to clear up any confusion, and to reward players who make it happen in late February.

Offline pannounce

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2005, 05:32:18 pm »
You know they probably look at just the regular season numbers, but the selection for all-conference comes after the tournament, so you don't think those coaches have tournament performance in the back of their mind?  I agree, the selection process should take place after the regular season.  Plus it makes it more interesting come conference tourney time to raz the guys that get all-conference

Offline tommy_devito

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2005, 06:12:48 pm »
Look at last year's POY or the year before's COY. Its obvious that the post-season is considered. And unless the league would have a seperate All-tourney team, I don't see why it shouldn't be because all 7 teams get to play in the tourney.  

It's obvious that it's not a MVP, it's a POY - that what the award is called. What good does it do to be your team's MVP if your team is second to last in the league -- Mikos on MSOE, with out him they would probably have been 2-10, and averaged double digit losses -- I'm not slamming him, just showing an example.

How could you say that Larson doesn't deserve COY? EW won the title outright and were picked to finish second - they did beat CUW when Weitor was playing. They became the first 1 seed to win the tourney too. EW was one of only 2 LMC teams to have a winning record - overall record that is. Deserved and congrats.

But I agree that KC should have gotten the POY award. Edgewood was just too balanced to have one person singled out. KC was a great player on a good team. Lutheran was in the title hunt in the last game of the season, and it was due to KC.

john philosophos

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2005, 07:40:32 pm »
KC, Mikos, Wietor, Zeck and Cooper are all terrific players worthy of consideration for POY.  And I REALLY like KC's game; he's smart, hard-nosed and unselfish.  However, here are 5 reasons why I think Cooper was the right pick for POY:

1) Regular season team sucess:  Led his team to the LMC regular season title, finishing second in scoring third in rebounding and forth in assists (as a forward).  Edge: Cooper

2) Post-season team success: Led his team to the tournament title, averaging 19.5 pts, 7.5 rbs. and 6.5 assts.  Edge Cooper

3) Head-to head:  EU wins twice.  Cooper averaged 24.5 pts., 8.5 reb., and 6 assts, shooting a combined 12 of 27 from the floor.  KC averages 27.5 pts., 4.5 reb., and 10 assts. while shooting a combined 21 of 45 from the floor.  KC took 9 more shots per game to average 3 more pts. per game than Cooper.  Both immpressive individual numbers, but once again, Edge: Cooper.

4) Reperesenting the LMC in non-conference play:  Both Cooper and KC played two opponents ranked in the top 25 in the most recent poll; WL played Lawrence and Stevens Point; EU also played Stevens Point as well as York, Pa.  In those games against top level teams, Cooper averaged 27 pts., 4.5 rebs., and 2 assts. while shooting a combined 16 of 28 from the floor.  KC averaged 12 pts., 1 reb. and 2 assts. while shooting a combined 8 of 40 from the floor.  Cooper averages 15 more ppg. while taking 6 less attempts pg! (In confernce play, KC took 5.5 shots more per game than Cooper).   Edge: Cooper

5) Versatility:  Cooper can play the point guard, shooting guard, small forward or power forward positions on both O and D, depending on what his squad needs.  His ability to play so many positions effectively is a big reason why he is the POY.  KC is very versatile as well, but he can't match Cooper inside.  Edge: Cooper

One final award:  I'm giving the Andrew Dice Clay Posting award to "the way" for his rebuttal today to a poster from Iowa.  Too good.

the way

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 08:17:25 pm »
The Way I See It,

N,
I think a lot of times people just look at rebounds and points and give out the awards based on that. Now i am not saying that is how you judge or anything, but they were the only two categories you listed. Saiberlich started every game and Averkamp only started 8. Saibs played almost 9 more minutes per game than did Averkamp. Their stats are very comparable. I have really only seen Averkamp play once so i can't judge too much on his other parts of the game, but to me it seems like he doesn't play much defense. Now with that being said, it is beyond me how one gets the ROY and Honorable Mention and the other gets First Team with no ROY. And how Huenik made the all-rookie team over some other deserving canidates (Wuest from marian, ehnert from lakeland) is like Bob Sagat winning an award for best TV show host over Jay Leno.  

Now also after thinking this through, had Edgewood won conference with say only 1 loss, then i see giving Averkamp or Michalkeweicz 1st team. But i can't see rewarding a team with 3 1st team players when they didn't blow the league away. In the same token, don't reward a team for going 0-12 by landing one player on each squad.

As far as the POY goes, it could have went either way. Both sides have legit arguments.

Bust Ya'll

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2005, 08:30:19 pm »
Freaking rigged...thats what the LMC is.  Is Larson still President of LMC?  Seems to me it is, how can all 3 picks go to them, just because they won the title.  Another screwjob goes out to WLC, the LMC's Public Enemy #1.  IF anyone other than KC should get the POY it should be Mikos from MSOE.  
And John..that regular season edge you gave to Cooper..#1 in scoring KC #1 in assists KC #2 in steals KC and #1 in our hearts KC,  EDGE- KC those numbers sound a lot better and do not seem like Cooper has an edge, it looks like Kevin is quicker and smarter on the court.  And his rebounds are not that high offensivly because both Markham AND Jiles out rebounded Cooper, giving KC more second chance shots, which is the reason he is above Cooper in the 3pts made catagory.
Im to busy to keep up this argument, all I gotta say is keep hating LMC, we will always be a thorn in your side.  Next year, #1 seed WLC- NCAA title you heard it hear first
Busty

the way

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2005, 08:37:49 pm »
The Way I See It,

We also heard it last with you Busty. Let's focus on the LMC winning an NCAA Tourney game before we worry about the whole damn NCAA Title. Don't you remember 'What About Bob?' We need to take baby steps first.

Offline tommy_devito

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2005, 09:13:49 pm »
Rigged -- the coaches vote on the awards. And if you actually knew what you were talking about, Skipper Noon is the President of the LMC from what I could find.

Mikos for POY? See my earlier post. If anyone else you could argue Zeck over Mikos easily. Zeck AVERAGED a double double and his team tied for 3rd. But I already said it should be KC, so lets get over it.  

How will Lutheran be #1 seed next season? Losing KC = losing record in conference. That is unless some big time frosh is coming in. Any news on recruits?

And Busty, I don't mean to rip you a new one, but just don't go spouting off on pure emotion alone, have some facts to back things up.

Offline trey

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2005, 11:39:01 am »
When coaches or media selects the POY, COY, and ROY from the conference's #1 team, I think they are taking the easy way out.  Anyone can pick the coach and best player from the top team; I hope there was more thought involved from the LMC coaches.

I can't really argue with the selection of Avercamp, and the Cooper vs. KC debate is a good one.  Then there's Larsen; I still maintain that when you are picked to finish second in conference, have an experienced team, and then take first at least in part because one of the league's best players got injured, you're not really doing anything exceptional.  He did a good job--and so did the other coaches, from CUW overcoming the loss of Wietor, to WLC putting up more of a fight than anyone figured them for, to MSOE for being competitive and getting a few major upsets.

I can agree with the Larsen choice from this perspective, as I posted previously:  Nobody else in the league really distinguished themselves as better than their preseason projections.  My guess says that if KC doesn't get called for a cheap foul (negating a fast break bucket) near the end of the Edgewood game a few weeks back, and that propels WLC to a win and a conference tie--well, then we're talking about Noon as the COY.

Da Foreigner

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2005, 11:51:28 am »
I just had to say something about the all-LMC squads.  For starters, I retract my statement about Averkamp deserving ROY.  I didn’t realize that he didn’t start (I’m pretty sure he started both games against us) so therefore my guy Scott Murphy should have won the award.  If the votes were based on who is most valuable to their team, then he’s got the award locked down.  He put up 14 & 5 in conference and started every game for us this year.  Basically if not for him, our team would not have had a low post presence.

I know this has already been said but please, someone explain how Saiberlich got all conference and not ROY?!?!?  I think Murphy did more to get All-LMC, but there was no way we were going to get 2 players in.

N, I will come to Peets defense and say his numbers don’t reflect how good he is.  I will personally attest to how much of a b**ch he is to guard down low.  I think he was All-LMC worthy IMO.  You can only score big if you get lots of looks.  He attempts like 8 shots a game, so scoring about 11pts a game is about right for someone who doesn’t shoot threes.

Tommy, the coaches do vote only on each award; a little stupid if you ask me.  As for Zeck over Mikos for POY?!?!?!  Let me give you two stats that will crush that argument.

Assists per game: 6.3 (12th in the NATION)
Steals per game: 3.4 (3rd in the NATION)

I say again, in the NATION ladies and gents.  The defense rests……………

My prediction for next year: MSOE finishes in top 3 in conference & wins tourney.  Jeff wins POY and gets All-American looks.  You read it here first.  Quick related question, when was the last time an LMC player made All-American?

Offline tommy_devito

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2005, 02:26:57 pm »
I don't know what not starting has to do with getting the ROY award. EW probably made the changes for match-up reasons. And they won those games, so that was obviously a good call. Averkamp still had good games when not starting - 19 points, 10 boards at Lutheran - 12 points, 5 boards against Lakeland - 11 points, 5 boards against Concordia - and 3 wins.  

DF, what is it stupid that the coaches vote on the awards? At D3, it wouldn't make sense to have the media do it.

And Zeck is a better choice for POY becasue he averaged a double double in the conference, and his team finished 3rd, not second to last place. Lakeland would have finished 6th without Zeck. MSOE finished 6th with Mikos. Mikos is a great player, but he just doesn't deserve to be POY if he can't get his team the wins. He started to do that at the end of the season -wins over Lutheran, EW, and CUW and almost another over Lutheran in the tourney - and if he continues that next season he's a lock for POY in 2006.

But don't forget to add Mikos 3.6 TO's a game to those stats. Something he'll need to improve on.  And the award is based on how he did in the conference, not the nation. I'm not saying that's right, but that's what the coaches look at. But don't lose hope. Keep talking him up and maybe he will make the D3hoops.com all-region team. With his stats, he should have a good shot - and so should KC for that matter.

lee johnson

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Re: MBB: Northern Athletics Conference
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2005, 02:32:26 pm »
i just want to say go aurora spartans.  you guys are probably a top ten team.  these d3 rankings are a joke if you ask me.  a team that is 27 and 0 is not number one.  the rankings mean nothing now anyways.  go out there and beleve your gonna win and use what got you there.  good luck spartans!  bring home some hardware.