Author Topic: FB: Empire 8  (Read 3033896 times)

Offline Jonny "Utes" Utah

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50505 on: January 05, 2017, 10:27:57 am »
Whew. If Governor Cuomo gets his way, there will be some serious advantage to being a state school come recruiting time. Free tuition for families making $125K or less is huge. I know some private schools do similar, but I haven't seen that high a threshold. I believe W&L's is $75K.
Guess who's running for President in 2020? I think Bombers is right that the tipping point was reached many years ago, but IF passed, an extra 6k could make a difference for a few recruits....but I know Hobart can be  competitive for "need based " scholarships(including room and board ) ,  not as specific as W&L with 75K threshold....Hobart's net tuition for all freshman is 55% of retail and 20-25% of new students are full payers(many  football players are lucky to come from families that can afford full tuition and love the D3 football experience at a private school , in fact football may be a net tuition contributor)....I do think it will keep some NY recruits in state which could help the overall pool for the E8 publics....we will see if it gets passed...3 year phase in...it could be funded by state tax on natural gas drilling/exploration ;)

Yeah. I'm sure W&L uses the same ridiculously complex formulas to determine most aid, but if your family makes less than 75k (at least that was the threshold when it was announced around 5 years ago), tuition is free and room and board was mostly free. I still think it has an impact on families. Just publicity wise, more kids will apply to the state schools knowing this policy is out there and more parents will encourage it. Even if they could get a comparable deal from a private, it may not even come up to look there.
I think you have a valid point that it will help E8 publics recruit and keep NY recruits in state. At Hobart we will try to differentiate with a diverse liberal arts curriculum , a 10:1 student to faculty ratio, great coaching staff, the ability to play D1 lacrosse for a few multi sport athletes and the beautiful Finger Lakes Fall and Spring weather(the Winter can be spent abroad ;D)....however having a 1.5 Billion Endowment like W&L would really be sweet(my quick math says Hobart could lower our tuition by  an additional 30K per student at a 5% investment yield with that size endowment.....hmmm...  tuition free based on our current average net tuition of about 30k).....now we just need to find 1.3 Billion to add to the endowment to offer free tuition

W&L's endowment is a pet peeve of mine. When I applied, back in the mid-90s, the school was listed as one of the great values in college education. Still stupidly expensive, but not enough to make you pull your hair out. Since then, the sticker price has gone up because apparently it helps with rankings to have a stupid sticker price attached to your school. The net spend by student, adjusted for education inflation (way higher than real inflation), hasn't changed much, but now the school doesn't look like a value for anyone but Richie Rich.

All the while the begging and pleading for endowment donations continues. I work in finance, so I know that the proceeds from the endowment, and the usable proceeds from the endowment, are different from the actual endowment, but it still annoys me that they drive up the sticker to try and increase the prestige when the means exist to provide one of the best liberal arts educations in the country without a "race your peers" to the top cost mentality.
Well said....... many would love to have W&L's financial options...I hope the football budget is generous...

I swear that colleges just figure that those families that can write checks for 50K a year can easily write a check for 65K a year (which is probably true), so they just raise the tuition. 

It is insane.

Online jknezek

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50506 on: January 05, 2017, 11:29:13 am »
Well said....... many would love to have W&L's financial options...I hope the football budget is generous...

I don't think the team wants for anything reasonable, but if you are talking about getting players through admissions W&L has never really concerned themselves with that since the big cheating scandal in the mid 50s. Coaches are well compensated as near as I can tell (info isn't released obviously, but coaches generally stay a LONG time if they are modestly successful), but it's not like the NESCAC where there are "athletic slots" for each team.

The team is, I believe, flying out to California for a game this upcoming season. C-M-S came this past year and it is generally believed to be a home and home. If true, this will be the first flight game for W&L since playing Georgetown for the last time in Bermuda in 1993. No idea why they did that. How much of the reasons for this oddity revolve around the departure of Catholic and the 7 team league versus simply a reward for W&L's recent success, I don't know. I'm guessing more than a bit but for a while, at least, W&L used to reward teams that won ODAC championships with a big trip in the next possible schedule. For football that is obviously a bit more difficult, and the practice seems to have disappeared somewhat as most teams seem to take a decent trip these days once a season regardless of past results.

I don't think the athletic teams want for much reasonable at the DIII level. The facilities have ALL been updated within the last 20 years. That was completely necessary as when I started in the mid-90s some facilities, including football, were horribly behind. But with the new natatorium being built now, it's hard to say any facility at W&L is sub-par. There are probably only a few that are truly among the top in DIII, field hockey and tennis are the two that might earn that distinction, but none would be considered less than very, very good.

Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50507 on: January 06, 2017, 04:06:53 pm »
Well said....... many would love to have W&L's financial options...I hope the football budget is generous...

I don't think the team wants for anything reasonable, but if you are talking about getting players through admissions W&L has never really concerned themselves with that since the big cheating scandal in the mid 50s. Coaches are well compensated as near as I can tell (info isn't released obviously, but coaches generally stay a LONG time if they are modestly successful), but it's not like the NESCAC where there are "athletic slots" for each team.

The team is, I believe, flying out to California for a game this upcoming season. C-M-S came this past year and it is generally believed to be a home and home. If true, this will be the first flight game for W&L since playing Georgetown for the last time in Bermuda in 1993. No idea why they did that. How much of the reasons for this oddity revolve around the departure of Catholic and the 7 team league versus simply a reward for W&L's recent success, I don't know. I'm guessing more than a bit but for a while, at least, W&L used to reward teams that won ODAC championships with a big trip in the next possible schedule. For football that is obviously a bit more difficult, and the practice seems to have disappeared somewhat as most teams seem to take a decent trip these days once a season regardless of past results.

I don't think the athletic teams want for much reasonable at the DIII level. The facilities have ALL been updated within the last 20 years. That was completely necessary as when I started in the mid-90s some facilities, including football, were horribly behind. But with the new natatorium being built now, it's hard to say any facility at W&L is sub-par. There are probably only a few that are truly among the top in DIII, field hockey and tennis are the two that might earn that distinction, but none would be considered less than very, very good.
W&L has the resources to do pretty much whatever they want...including going D1 ( heck Davidson has half of your endowment and counts Steph Curry as an Alum), but I am sure having a great D3 program coupled with a top academic reputation is enough .
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Online jknezek

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50508 on: January 06, 2017, 05:35:38 pm »
I'm not saying D1 will never happen because the future is awfully long and the position of private schools in higher ed is under a massive amount of stress. But W&L gave up big time athletics for a reason and there is no reason, or desire, to bring it back now. Maybe someday they will find one though I hope there is never a need to be so desperate. All those reasons schools give for making such a move these days simply don't apply to W&L.

Offline D3viewer

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Re: FB: Empire 8
« Reply #50509 on: Yesterday at 05:33:19 pm »
Brockport"s Dan Andrews just made an appearance at an all star type combine in TX. Doesn't look like there is any game, just drills and practices. But it appears many NFL/CFL scouts attended and Andrews impressed enough to get a mention in the liner notes of this article.
http://www.metro.us/new-york/giants-jets-take-hard-look-at-players-at-college-gridiron-showcase/zsJqaq---55hzYSas9NdCg/