Liberty League

[Sho-nuff]

your right about the recruiting...pennsylvania has 3 D-IA programs, and a total ish load of divI-AA, div II, div III schools that all pool from the talent pool. pbr has seen it written (i havent verified it yet) ohio has much less of a competition in the middle tiers of schools i.e. div I-AA, div II, III schools. so if your a recruit and osu/cincinnati/akron dont wont you there isnt a whole lot to fall back on in the middle level schools so you can go to mt. union and win a national championship or  wallow in one of their small mid tier schools. again havent completely verified the numbers and schools but have seen it discussed numerous times and different places.  

pbr --- there aren't many DII schools in Ohio but that isn't the issue.  There are a TON of D3 schools in Ohio who compete with eachother to get the kids.  Plus the MAC schools are really focusing efforts on keeping kids from Ohio in the state.  It all adds up to a very competitive recruiting period.  SF has friends who are recruiting coordinators for schools at D3 level and they describe it as more competitive than the games they play in the fall --- which to SF, is saying something.

[Sho-nuff]

You guys got it all wrong as far as the Top 25 goes...If it's not Ithaca or SJF or Cortland having a good season, the pollsters do not vote them in.  These guys are creatures of habit.  The Top 10 is pretty static each year with the same teams, no parity, etc. <Yawn> The East is different, and if there is a changing of the guard, even if for only 1 year, there is no 'poll love' until that team does it several years in a row or makes a deep run in the playoffs.  Those guys are stubborn and don't like to change their early season choices.  Alfred has proven to be better than #25, and there isn't a person out there who opens his ****ing eyes that can say anything different...Unfortunately, the eyes aren't open.

Alfred has beaten teams that these clowns had in the Top 15 early in the year, and they are still bringing up the rear.  It's ridiculous...but expected.

well said --- its very tough to crack the Top 10.  I was very surprised to see a certain team at #11 this week.  It seems like St. Johns, Wash and Jefferson, Central, MHB and others are always up there...

Two teams that I'm not sold on (because of competition) are Monmouth and Case Western Reserve. 

Now CWRU is an example of LD's analysis -- they've been very good (at least record-wise) for a few years now --- hence they are top 10.  The past few years they've been in the teens. 

[pumkinattack]

That was true with Hobart too.  It took a couple of years of playoffs, winning the conference for Bart to get regular love at the bottom of the poll, then this year they get put in at around 17th and s**t the bed.  However, if Hobart can run the table and win an ECAC game (against a decent OOC opponent) and bring back a lot on offense, they'll probably still need to go 4-0 before they get meaningful votes next year. 

[Pat Coleman]

Honestly dlip feels the eastern teams aren't getting much "poll love" (dlip loves saying that) as a result of the pollsters being so ****in far off with thier early season rankings of Ithaca and Cortland St. Both teams were in the preseason top ten and both teams turned out to not be very good. Hence for an Eastern team to make it up into the higer epcilan of the poll they must prove a ton to these voters, probably even more than their schedules allow them to (ex. Alfred, Albright, Kean)

Also, those schedules are significantly backloaded. Alfred has Ithaca and St. John Fisher in the final third of its schedule, Albright plays Del Val and Leb Val the final two weeks of the season. Kean has Rowan and Montclair late, and lost to Del Val when it played them early.

I agree Alfred should be higher ... but it's a tough nut to crack without a ranked team to beat such as teams like Mississippi College, Wittenberg and Illinois Wesleyan have been able to do in recent weeks. Who do we measure the East teams against right now? Del Val we can measure against Wesley. ... but do we measure Alfred against Mass-Dartmouth and FDU-Florham?

[a fine mug of pbr'th...]

your right about the recruiting...pennsylvania has 3 D-IA programs, and a total ish load of divI-AA, div II, div III schools that all pool from the talent pool. pbr has seen it written (i havent verified it yet) ohio has much less of a competition in the middle tiers of schools i.e. div I-AA, div II, III schools. so if your a recruit and osu/cincinnati/akron dont wont you there isnt a whole lot to fall back on in the middle level schools so you can go to mt. union and win a national championship or  wallow in one of their small mid tier schools. again havent completely verified the numbers and schools but have seen it discussed numerous times and different places.  

pbr --- there aren't many DII schools in Ohio but that isn't the issue.  There are a TON of D3 schools in Ohio who compete with eachother to get the kids.  Plus the MAC schools are really focusing efforts on keeping kids from Ohio in the state.  It all adds up to a very competitive recruiting period.  SF has friends who are recruiting coordinators for schools at D3 level and they describe it as more competitive than the games they play in the fall --- which to SF, is saying something.

how do pa. and ohio rate number wise for d3 schools? then factor in that pa. has a ton of very good div IAA, II schools recruiting in pa. is crazy! that is also why pbr thinks you see a good chunk of nj kids on dvc's team. recruiting is less over there plus you have to expand your recruiting base just numbers wise to compete.

[Knightstalker]

your right about the recruiting...pennsylvania has 3 D-IA programs, and a total ish load of divI-AA, div II, div III schools that all pool from the talent pool. pbr has seen it written (i havent verified it yet) ohio has much less of a competition in the middle tiers of schools i.e. div I-AA, div II, III schools. so if your a recruit and osu/cincinnati/akron dont wont you there isnt a whole lot to fall back on in the middle level schools so you can go to mt. union and win a national championship or  wallow in one of their small mid tier schools. again havent completely verified the numbers and schools but have seen it discussed numerous times and different places.  

pbr --- there aren't many DII schools in Ohio but that isn't the issue.  There are a TON of D3 schools in Ohio who compete with eachother to get the kids.  Plus the MAC schools are really focusing efforts on keeping kids from Ohio in the state.  It all adds up to a very competitive recruiting period.  SF has friends who are recruiting coordinators for schools at D3 level and they describe it as more competitive than the games they play in the fall --- which to SF, is saying something.

how do pa. and ohio rate number wise for d3 schools? then factor in that pa. has a ton of very good div IAA, II schools recruiting in pa. is crazy! that is also why pbr thinks you see a good chunk of nj kids on dvc's team. recruiting is less over there plus you have to expand your recruiting base just numbers wise to compete.

The PSAC alone must kill recruiting for all the other programs.

[Jonny Utah]

your right about the recruiting...pennsylvania has 3 D-IA programs, and a total ish load of divI-AA, div II, div III schools that all pool from the talent pool. pbr has seen it written (i havent verified it yet) ohio has much less of a competition in the middle tiers of schools i.e. div I-AA, div II, III schools. so if your a recruit and osu/cincinnati/akron dont wont you there isnt a whole lot to fall back on in the middle level schools so you can go to mt. union and win a national championship or  wallow in one of their small mid tier schools. again havent completely verified the numbers and schools but have seen it discussed numerous times and different places.  

pbr --- there aren't many DII schools in Ohio but that isn't the issue.  There are a TON of D3 schools in Ohio who compete with eachother to get the kids.  Plus the MAC schools are really focusing efforts on keeping kids from Ohio in the state.  It all adds up to a very competitive recruiting period.  SF has friends who are recruiting coordinators for schools at D3 level and they describe it as more competitive than the games they play in the fall --- which to SF, is saying something.

SF,

Tell Brian Kelly and the University of Cincinnati to stop recruiting high schools in Cincinatti?  Thats Boston College territory and Id like to keep it that way.

[LewDoth Stonehammer]

Honestly dlip feels the eastern teams aren't getting much "poll love" (dlip loves saying that) as a result of the pollsters being so ****in far off with thier early season rankings of Ithaca and Cortland St. Both teams were in the preseason top ten and both teams turned out to not be very good. Hence for an Eastern team to make it up into the higer epcilan of the poll they must prove a ton to these voters, probably even more than their schedules allow them to (ex. Alfred, Albright, Kean)

Also, those schedules are significantly backloaded. Alfred has Ithaca and St. John Fisher in the final third of its schedule, Albright plays Del Val and Leb Val the final two weeks of the season. Kean has Rowan and Montclair late, and lost to Del Val when it played them early.

I agree Alfred should be higher ... but it's a tough nut to crack without a ranked team to beat such as teams like Mississippi College, Wittenberg and Illinois Wesleyan have been able to do in recent weeks. Who do we measure the East teams against right now? Del Val we can measure against Wesley. ... but do we measure Alfred against Mass-Dartmouth and FDU-Florham?

No but can't you measure them against an Ithaca team ranked as highly as 8 earlier in the year?  or a tough St. John Fisher, or a Springfield that has been beating everyone?  

I'm not saying they deserve anything higher than maybe 18, but 25 is too low.  There is a 6-2 Mississippi College team in front of them that just lost to a 4-4 team in their last game by 14 points!

[LewDoth Stonehammer]

Honestly dlip feels the eastern teams aren't getting much "poll love" (dlip loves saying that) as a result of the pollsters being so ****in far off with thier early season rankings of Ithaca and Cortland St. Both teams were in the preseason top ten and both teams turned out to not be very good. Hence for an Eastern team to make it up into the higer epcilan of the poll they must prove a ton to these voters, probably even more than their schedules allow them to (ex. Alfred, Albright, Kean)

Also, those schedules are significantly backloaded. Alfred has Ithaca and St. John Fisher in the final third of its schedule, Albright plays Del Val and Leb Val the final two weeks of the season. Kean has Rowan and Montclair late, and lost to Del Val when it played them early.

I agree Alfred should be higher ... but it's a tough nut to crack without a ranked team to beat such as teams like Mississippi College, Wittenberg and Illinois Wesleyan have been able to do in recent weeks. Who do we measure the East teams against right now? Del Val we can measure against Wesley. ... but do we measure Alfred against Mass-Dartmouth and FDU-Florham?

No but can't you measure them against an Ithaca team ranked as highly as 8 earlier in the year?  or a tough St. John Fisher, or a Springfield that has been beating everyone?  

I'm not saying they deserve anything higher than maybe 18, but 25 is too low.  There is a 6-2 Mississippi College team in front of them that just lost to a 4-4 team in their last game by 14 points!

Sorry, jumped the gun on Ithaca...but you get my point.

[Pat Coleman]

The PSAC alone must kill recruiting for all the other programs.

Plus the PSAC just went from 24 to 36 max scholarships (the D-II maximum) in the last couple years

[Pat Coleman]

There is a 6-2 Mississippi College team in front of them that just lost to a 4-4 team in their last game by 14 points!

That has a win against a ranked team. And that's a currently ranked team, not a formerly ranked team. There's a difference.

[Sho-nuff]

The PSAC alone must kill recruiting for all the other programs.

its definitely affected the Pennsylvania based PAC members.  

pbr --- I'm trying to see how many programs are in Ohio

[Sho-nuff]

your right about the recruiting...pennsylvania has 3 D-IA programs, and a total ish load of divI-AA, div II, div III schools that all pool from the talent pool. pbr has seen it written (i havent verified it yet) ohio has much less of a competition in the middle tiers of schools i.e. div I-AA, div II, III schools. so if your a recruit and osu/cincinnati/akron dont wont you there isnt a whole lot to fall back on in the middle level schools so you can go to mt. union and win a national championship or  wallow in one of their small mid tier schools. again havent completely verified the numbers and schools but have seen it discussed numerous times and different places.  

pbr --- there aren't many DII schools in Ohio but that isn't the issue.  There are a TON of D3 schools in Ohio who compete with eachother to get the kids.  Plus the MAC schools are really focusing efforts on keeping kids from Ohio in the state.  It all adds up to a very competitive recruiting period.  SF has friends who are recruiting coordinators for schools at D3 level and they describe it as more competitive than the games they play in the fall --- which to SF, is saying something.

SF,

Tell Brian Kelly and the University of Cincinnati to stop recruiting high schools in Cincinatti?  Thats Boston College territory and Id like to keep it that way.

Ha... there's always been a pipeline up to BC --- my buddy's brother (Alex Albright) was the last Cincy recruit to go to BC --- that I've heard of.  And I think his career is over now because of Neck Surgery. 

[Frank Rossi]

ECAC Bowl (North Subregion) Update (As of 11/3/09 @ 10:15am)

The following teams have applied for consideration for ECAC Championship games on 11/21/09 from the North Subregion of the ECAC:

Maine Maritime (7-1, 5-1) *
Springfield (7-1, 3-1) *
Plymouth State (7-2, 5-1)
SUNY-Cortland (6-2, 6-2)
Hartwick (5-3, 1-3) +
St. John Fisher (4-3, 3-2) +
RPI (4-3, 2-3)
Gallaudet (5-4, 3-2) =
Framingham State (5-4, 3-3)
Utica (3-5, 0-4) X

Records are overall followed by respective league records.

* - Team could still win an NCAA berth.

+ - Team plays against another team in the list in future game.

= - Team may play an 11th game prior to the ECACs, disallowing team from playing 12th game unless that game were an NCAA Playoff game.

X - Team currently does not have record that would allow it to be considered (>=.500 overall or in league).

Six teams will be picked from the list of teams that file for consideration.  The deadline for consideration without late fee is THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5TH at 5pm EST. 

Teams will be selected by the ECAC Football Championships Committee on or about 11/15/09 (following selection of the NCAA Playoffs field).  Teams historically have been selected by win-loss record except when ties exist.  The #1 team hosts the #6 team, the #2 team hosts the #5 team and the #3 team hosts the #4 team, unless the higher-seeded team does not file to host the game.  All games begin at 12pm local time on 11/21/09.

[Frank Rossi]

Note that IF Hobart files for ECAC consideration, the game between RPI and Hobart will likely be an ECAC Bowl elimination game under present circumstances.  This much is true: the loser would have an uphill battle for any consideration with a fourth loss -- it will depend on how many teams drop out due to NCAA/12th game reasons and how many more teams will apply for consideration.