Author Topic: FB: Liberty League  (Read 3836499 times)

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50940 on: October 08, 2018, 08:42:03 am »
Just throwing this out there to the IC fans, and anyone who watched the game on Sat.  This IC offense appears to be built for speed/passing, with the mobile QB in Nabi and the downfield speed of Gladney.  Swanstrom comes from Penn, a team built around the passing game. Is it possible that they are losing home field advantage?  Butterfield is not a fast track by any means, the sloppy thick grass and huge crown midfield works great to slow down opposing high powered offenses, but can also hinder the home team. 

Offline Bombers798891

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50941 on: October 08, 2018, 10:30:44 am »
Just throwing this out there to the IC fans, and anyone who watched the game on Sat.  This IC offense appears to be built for speed/passing, with the mobile QB in Nabi and the downfield speed of Gladney.  Swanstrom comes from Penn, a team built around the passing game. Is it possible that they are losing home field advantage?  Butterfield is not a fast track by any means, the sloppy thick grass and huge crown midfield works great to slow down opposing high powered offenses, but can also hinder the home team. 

Maybe. It is what it is, though. The Bombers have certainly had high powered offenses before—though not recently. Ultimately, Ithaca is just not getting points on the board. The offense is averaging just 16.4 PPG, once you remove the two fumble recoveries for a TD.

(And even that overstates it, because they got their last 7 at Alfred after the Saxons were forced to go for it from their own 6 and failed to convert. Had Ithaca taken a knee on the 3rd down from the 1 with 1:14 to go, and then on 4th, they'd have given it back to Alfred on their own 3 with ~25 seconds to go and 0 timeouts, which might have been smarter than going up 8 with 1:09 to go and giving them a chance to drive. Either way, it wasn't exactly a drive)

Which is a shame, because this is an all-time defense for IC. They've allowed just 12.8 PPG, which would be the lowest since 2001. And of the 8 touchdowns they've allowed this season, three of them came on drives starting at their own 21 or closer.

Here's the optimist and pessimist view for IC:

Optimist: The Bombers went 1-3 against these opponents last year, and this year they're 2-2. Brockport is likely to run the table, barring an injury to their QB or losing 75-72 to Cortland. RPI has 3 of their last 4 are at home, with the lone road game is one they'll cruise in. A 9-0 season is on the table—though it will be tougher. Alfred is probably going to go 8-2 with losses to IC and Port. So, if we were to look back at this stretch, we could see three games against teams that could go a combined 24-0 against teams other than IC and each other

The defense is looking like IC will never be out of any game. And, if you really want to look at it with rose-colored glasses, IC had 25 first downs and 418 yards against RPI. It's not like the offense was unable to move. An offense that does that every week is going to put up more than 9 points most times.

Pessimist:: Speaking of quality of opponent, IC's got a nice win over Alfred, but St. Vincent is 1-4 (with their lone win against winless Thiel) and Fisher is 0-4. And if we want to play the "Look how close they played Brockport" card, you have to point out that IC was the only team to have trouble with Fisher.

As far as the RPI game goes, yardage and 1st down are nice, but you have to score to win, and right now, the offense isn't where it needs to be for IC to beat Union, Hobart, and Cortland (Who is lighting up everyone, much like Brockport), especially since all three of those games are on the road. The kicking and return games aren't helping the offense out, and at the very least Union and Cortland look much improved from last year. Hobart sort of looks the same, but again, that game is on the road. IC is likely the underdog in all three of those games.

Overall, much credit to RPI yesterday. The defense held tight, and the special teams made a huge play. Crucially, they played relatively mistake free football (they took a dumb penalty on an INT return, and even though the XP was all kinds of crazy, that penalty almost cost them). But they made the defensive play in the blocked XP chaos, and they weren't fooled at all on the 2-point try. You win a tough conference road game, you get full credit in my book. A deserved win for the Engineers

Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50942 on: October 08, 2018, 11:37:43 am »
Bombers,
    This is a great objective assessment of IC. I picked them for first in the conference from the beginning, and I was surprised that 400 yards only resulted in 9 points against RPI. Taking nothing away from RPI, as I know winning at Butterfield is very difficult(heck, Hobart has never done it), I thought with Ithaca's iron defense that this would have been IC's game to win, but I guess that is why you play them. So I have not watched any of the IC games yet this year, what is the QB situation, was Nabi injured , and I noticed Will Gladney was back in form....is this QB-WR combination healthy? In the case of Hobart we have really missed Dakota Harvey this year, especially since the Oline is now maturing together and can support the run game now. There are always players to step up, but Nabi, Gladney and Harvey are special. 
   So, this week, I am curious as to your take on the Union- IC game. I know both teams will be desperate for a win to stay in the LL race.
"When I played college football ,I was slow, real slow, but when I caught them, it was glorious" Bartman
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Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50943 on: October 08, 2018, 11:48:06 am »
Just throwing this out there to the IC fans, and anyone who watched the game on Sat.  This IC offense appears to be built for speed/passing, with the mobile QB in Nabi and the downfield speed of Gladney.  Swanstrom comes from Penn, a team built around the passing game. Is it possible that they are losing home field advantage?  Butterfield is not a fast track by any means, the sloppy thick grass and huge crown midfield works great to slow down opposing high powered offenses, but can also hinder the home team. 

Maybe. It is what it is, though. The Bombers have certainly had high powered offenses before—though not recently. Ultimately, Ithaca is just not getting points on the board. The offense is averaging just 16.4 PPG, once you remove the two fumble recoveries for a TD.

(And even that overstates it, because they got their last 7 at Alfred after the Saxons were forced to go for it from their own 6 and failed to convert. Had Ithaca taken a knee on the 3rd down from the 1 with 1:14 to go, and then on 4th, they'd have given it back to Alfred on their own 3 with ~25 seconds to go and 0 timeouts, which might have been smarter than going up 8 with 1:09 to go and giving them a chance to drive. Either way, it wasn't exactly a drive)

Which is a shame, because this is an all-time defense for IC. They've allowed just 12.8 PPG, which would be the lowest since 2001. And of the 8 touchdowns they've allowed this season, three of them came on drives starting at their own 21 or closer.

Here's the optimist and pessimist view for IC:

Optimist: The Bombers went 1-3 against these opponents last year, and this year they're 2-2. Brockport is likely to run the table, barring an injury to their QB or losing 75-72 to Cortland. RPI has 3 of their last 4 are at home, with the lone road game is one they'll cruise in. A 9-0 season is on the table—though it will be tougher. Alfred is probably going to go 8-2 with losses to IC and Port. So, if we were to look back at this stretch, we could see three games against teams that could go a combined 24-0 against teams other than IC and each other

The defense is looking like IC will never be out of any game. And, if you really want to look at it with rose-colored glasses, IC had 25 first downs and 418 yards against RPI. It's not like the offense was unable to move. An offense that does that every week is going to put up more than 9 points most times.

Pessimist:: Speaking of quality of opponent, IC's got a nice win over Alfred, but St. Vincent is 1-4 (with their lone win against winless Thiel) and Fisher is 0-4. And if we want to play the "Look how close they played Brockport" card, you have to point out that IC was the only team to have trouble with Fisher.

As far as the RPI game goes, yardage and 1st down are nice, but you have to score to win, and right now, the offense isn't where it needs to be for IC to beat Union, Hobart, and Cortland (Who is lighting up everyone, much like Brockport), especially since all three of those games are on the road. The kicking and return games aren't helping the offense out, and at the very least Union and Cortland look much improved from last year. Hobart sort of looks the same, but again, that game is on the road. IC is likely the underdog in all three of those games.

Overall, much credit to RPI yesterday. The defense held tight, and the special teams made a huge play. Crucially, they played relatively mistake free football (they took a dumb penalty on an INT return, and even though the XP was all kinds of crazy, that penalty almost cost them). But they made the defensive play in the blocked XP chaos, and they weren't fooled at all on the 2-point try. You win a tough conference road game, you get full credit in my book. A deserved win for the Engineers

Thanks for the midseason take on the Bombers.  Despite Hobart beating Union this weekend, I still doubt many will take Hobart as the favorite next month over IC.  Put Gladney/Nabi on the turf at Hobart, and I am sure there will be some scoring.  As Bartman already mentioned, we are a different team without Harvey.  The kid is a game changer for the Statesmen.  When you are a muscular, powerful RB, a torn hamstring is very tough injury to heal in season.


Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50944 on: October 08, 2018, 12:26:16 pm »
Oline,
    How long do you think Harvey will be out for? Since he has only played 2 games, he could apply for an injury exemption get himself an extra year of eligibility? I would love to see him play against Ithaca(I assume 10/20 against RPI may be too soon), but I would also love to see 3 full years.....I think he is good enough to get some interest at the next level( no doubt he has an NFL/CFL body and he is also fast), so no need to rush an injury.   
"When I played college football ,I was slow, real slow, but when I caught them, it was glorious" Bartman
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers.”
― Max McGee Green Bay Packers Super Bowl I
“I never graduated college, but I was only there for two terms – Truman’s and Eisenhower’s” – Alex Karras

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50945 on: October 08, 2018, 12:26:31 pm »
@Bill, weren’t you one of the conspiracy theorists piggy backing on Frank’s ridiculous claims that the Union Administration and their policies and ‘financial aid’ allotments made it impossible for the football program to succeed? Wasn’t it all the AD’s fault?  How is the new coach doing this against such odds? Are they just on a real luck streak? Are all of their opponents rolling over for reparations of recent years? Is he a wizard? Was there a complete change in Administrative policies? Or was Frank entirely full of sh!t and the rest of you bandwagon jumpers decided to grab your pitchforks, follow his crusade to the promise land, but suddenly hush up when you realized they just needed a regime change? Surely if Frank’s claims were true, Union is  unfairly being robbed of Mt Union like potential. I’d like for you to continue your fight against the AD and Administration. Don’t give up now because of a couple Ws. Don’t lose your passion. Fight for what is right!!! Keep your eye on the ball.

I'm not sure he was one of those Audino backers, but he did say that Union "should have won the game" one year when Ithaca beat them.  Anyone who says something like that is always questionable in anything they say about the team they root for.  I kind of ignore anything someone says after saying something like that, especially in the game he was referencing.
OK boys. It's time for me to clarify some more things you've gotten wrong.. PA you're the one that first brought up finding a video of the alleged brawl. Everyone knows that but you.  ???
Mach, I believe I was among the first to call out Audino and lobby for a coaching change. Dlip and Frank could confirm that.
Utah, if you re-read my post of 9/9/16 you would see that Eagle322 made the statement that the "Union staff said Union should have won" that game. I merely agreed with them.
It's been a tough day for me but the best part is that due to your poor reading comprehension I've succeeded in riling up both Hobart and RPI guys.  ;D

Quote
Actually I agree with Eagle, Union should have won the game. Union QB Nick Cascione after being a pitiful 2/12 for 25 yds. in the first half was 11/15, 145 yds in the second. Union had a huge time of possession edge 33:08/26:52. Ithaca won the game solely thanks to a "scoop and score" that gave them their 14 points. THEIR offense and QB were the ones that stunk it up in the second half.   

This is what you said.  You said Union should have won the game.  You also said you agreed with Eagle, but you did more than merely agree with him, you added to your statement.  Then you went on to explain why you thought Union should have won, and that made even less sense.

So my reading comprehension is pretty damn accurate.

Offline Bombers798891

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50946 on: October 08, 2018, 12:50:35 pm »
This board has taken a totally bizarre turn this past month or so. Now we're arguing over who said what about the results of a game that took place two years ago. This after a lengthy debate about a brawl from 20 years ago that's very existence has been called into question (complete with demands to see video evidence!). People are digging up old grudges, throwing out sarcasm, making snide remarks left and right, and generally just trying to prove they're smarter than the guy posting above them.

Look, it happens (and has happened) to us all from time to time. Myself included, absolutely. But for some reason, over this past month, the overall tone seems way more combative and rude. And I have to be honest, I almost bid farewell to the board last week. It's really hard to find knowledgable, engaging people to discuss Division III football with, and I genuinely enjoy being able to do so on these boards, but I'm just not interested in wading through some of this stuff to talk about the games themselves.

So I'm on the fence on if I'll stick around, or not. Not that anyone has to care, or behave differently on my account. Do what you may. Just offering my two cents

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50947 on: October 08, 2018, 01:02:38 pm »
This board has taken a totally bizarre turn this past month or so. Now we're arguing over who said what about the results of a game that took place two years ago. This after a lengthy debate about a brawl from 20 years ago that's very existence has been called into question (complete with demands to see video evidence!). People are digging up old grudges, throwing out sarcasm, making snide remarks left and right, and generally just trying to prove they're smarter than the guy posting above them.

Look, it happens (and has happened) to us all from time to time. Myself included, absolutely. But for some reason, over this past month, the overall tone seems way more combative and rude. And I have to be honest, I almost bid farewell to the board last week. It's really hard to find knowledgable, engaging people to discuss Division III football with, and I genuinely enjoy being able to do so on these boards, but I'm just not interested in wading through some of this stuff to talk about the games themselves.

So I'm on the fence on if I'll stick around, or not. Not that anyone has to care, or behave differently on my account. Do what you may. Just offering my two cents

That being said....

I think Union may have the best team in the LL this year, as I think their skill guys will make the difference down the stretch.  Ithaca has Gladney but if you can't get him the ball (underthrown twice each game I've seen him in this year) he won't be effective.  RPI is like you said, well coached, mistake free and like Ithaca, has a solid defense that can stop good teams.  Hobart is probably still figuring themselves out and will lose one or two more in conference.

Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50948 on: October 08, 2018, 01:08:49 pm »
This board has taken a totally bizarre turn this past month or so. Now we're arguing over who said what about the results of a game that took place two years ago. This after a lengthy debate about a brawl from 20 years ago that's very existence has been called into question (complete with demands to see video evidence!). People are digging up old grudges, throwing out sarcasm, making snide remarks left and right, and generally just trying to prove they're smarter than the guy posting above them.

Look, it happens (and has happened) to us all from time to time. Myself included, absolutely. But for some reason, over this past month, the overall tone seems way more combative and rude. And I have to be honest, I almost bid farewell to the board last week. It's really hard to find knowledgable, engaging people to discuss Division III football with, and I genuinely enjoy being able to do so on these boards, but I'm just not interested in wading through some of this stuff to talk about the games themselves.

So I'm on the fence on if I'll stick around, or not. Not that anyone has to care, or behave differently on my account. Do what you may. Just offering my two cents
+K to Bombers for speaking your mind, I enjoy some healthy banter, but I think it would be healthy to move on now.....
"When I played college football ,I was slow, real slow, but when I caught them, it was glorious" Bartman
"When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers.”
― Max McGee Green Bay Packers Super Bowl I
“I never graduated college, but I was only there for two terms – Truman’s and Eisenhower’s” – Alex Karras

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50949 on: October 08, 2018, 01:09:13 pm »
Just throwing this out there to the IC fans, and anyone who watched the game on Sat.  This IC offense appears to be built for speed/passing, with the mobile QB in Nabi and the downfield speed of Gladney.  Swanstrom comes from Penn, a team built around the passing game. Is it possible that they are losing home field advantage?  Butterfield is not a fast track by any means, the sloppy thick grass and huge crown midfield works great to slow down opposing high powered offenses, but can also hinder the home team.

And I'm not 100% sure the offense is built for the passing game, but it is spread no huddle/tempo.  Sometimes they run a nice outside zone, but they don't seem like the same offense last year.  Something is off.  I don't think the protection is as good as it was last year and I think that might be the big difference. 

But Special teams needs to get better for Ithaca if they want any chance this year.  RPI's punt return which pretty much set up their win should have been defended better.  Ithaca had like 3=4 players running right next to each other with no contain/breakdown player to the field. 

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50950 on: October 08, 2018, 01:10:39 pm »
 Not for nothing, Bombers, but all of the important teams in the Liberty League were on an unprecedented same week bye week a week ago. Having some off discussion during that time that maybe bled into this week is not a big deal. This world is getting out of hand. Lighten up and have some enjoyment and tolerance. Or just follow the pack, take your ball, and go home. That seems to be the popular move nowadays. Or just go on FB and Twitter and get lost into the angry negative disgusting abyss.
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Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50951 on: October 08, 2018, 01:14:31 pm »
This board has taken a totally bizarre turn this past month or so. Now we're arguing over who said what about the results of a game that took place two years ago. This after a lengthy debate about a brawl from 20 years ago that's very existence has been called into question (complete with demands to see video evidence!). People are digging up old grudges, throwing out sarcasm, making snide remarks left and right, and generally just trying to prove they're smarter than the guy posting above them.

Look, it happens (and has happened) to us all from time to time. Myself included, absolutely. But for some reason, over this past month, the overall tone seems way more combative and rude. And I have to be honest, I almost bid farewell to the board last week. It's really hard to find knowledgable, engaging people to discuss Division III football with, and I genuinely enjoy being able to do so on these boards, but I'm just not interested in wading through some of this stuff to talk about the games themselves.

So I'm on the fence on if I'll stick around, or not. Not that anyone has to care, or behave differently on my account. Do what you may. Just offering my two cents
+K to Bombers for speaking your mind, I enjoy some healthy banter, but I think it would be healthy to move on now.....

I can go both ways on the banter.  I am usually able to just ignore things that don't effect me and can refocus on the football stuff.  Hell, PumpkinAttack just posted one of the biggest all time incoherent rants in the history of the internet and I still think I'm a better person for reading it.

I think the talk about the 1998 Union/Hobart brawl is awesome.  Real glory days type shiz.  Parents, Dlinemen, fans of parents, parents of fans.  Did it happen?  Was Frank R. there?  So many questions.  Not enough answers. 

On to Union.

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50952 on: October 08, 2018, 01:22:46 pm »
And as he always does, JU just hit the nail perfectly on the elbow. Reading ‘PA’s incoherent rant’ making you a better person was one of the laugh out loud funny  comments of my weekend. Brilliance at its brilliantest.
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Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50953 on: October 08, 2018, 02:01:10 pm »
Oline,
    How long do you think Harvey will be out for? Since he has only played 2 games, he could apply for an injury exemption get himself an extra year of eligibility? I would love to see him play against Ithaca(I assume 10/20 against RPI may be too soon), but I would also love to see 3 full years.....I think he is good enough to get some interest at the next level( no doubt he has an NFL/CFL body and he is also fast), so no need to rush an injury.

Bartman,
Watching from the stands, it didn't look too bad.  He was able to jog on it, looked pretty strong when he was being tested by the trainers. That being said, he already took 5 weeks off, and was re-injured in the first quarter.  Grade 3 hamstring tears are really hard to predict, but best guess would be back in 4 weeks.  Since he has only played in 2 games this season, I think he would qualify for a medical redshirt/hardship. Remember,  he did a postgrad year after high school, and may have no interest in spending 4 1/2 years in college. 

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #50954 on: October 08, 2018, 02:28:17 pm »
This board has taken a totally bizarre turn this past month or so. Now we're arguing over who said what about the results of a game that took place two years ago. This after a lengthy debate about a brawl from 20 years ago that's very existence has been called into question (complete with demands to see video evidence!). People are digging up old grudges, throwing out sarcasm, making snide remarks left and right, and generally just trying to prove they're smarter than the guy posting above them.

Look, it happens (and has happened) to us all from time to time. Myself included, absolutely. But for some reason, over this past month, the overall tone seems way more combative and rude. And I have to be honest, I almost bid farewell to the board last week. It's really hard to find knowledgable, engaging people to discuss Division III football with, and I genuinely enjoy being able to do so on these boards, but I'm just not interested in wading through some of this stuff to talk about the games themselves.

So I'm on the fence on if I'll stick around, or not. Not that anyone has to care, or behave differently on my account. Do what you may. Just offering my two cents
+K to Bombers for speaking your mind, I enjoy some healthy banter, but I think it would be healthy to move on now.....

I can go both ways on the banter.  I am usually able to just ignore things that don't effect me and can refocus on the football stuff.  Hell, PumpkinAttack just posted one of the biggest all time incoherent rants in the history of the internet and I still think I'm a better person for reading it.

I think the talk about the 1998 Union/Hobart brawl is awesome.  Real glory days type shiz.  Parents, Dlinemen, fans of parents, parents of fans.  Did it happen?  Was Frank R. there?  So many questions.  Not enough answers. 

On to Union.

Nothing better than hearing war stories from the Days of the Giants.  Any post that starts with "back in the day" is sure to kindle some spark in all of us old warriors.  Go home, bust out a double bicep in the bathroom mirror,  test out the old 3 point stance (still got it), look at the free weights, keep walking, bang out 30 mins on the elliptical, earned that extra piece of  cheesecake, hit the couch and Monday Night Football/Yanks Red Sox.  Perfect day

Moving on to week 7....