FB: Liberty League

[Bombers798891]

Don't count your tickets before they are sold. Those are allotted to the schools, but not sold yet, but yes I saw that in the plan. With 6k students, will each school really use 5k tickets? That's going to be a LOT of buses. With normal total attendance of 10k on campus, that seems like a bit of a stretch.

Now I am curious what % of the student bodies from St Thomas and St John's attended the Target Field game, which was just across town. It was certainly nowhere near 80%.

One correction: Those are not just student tickets. They are student, faculty, and staff tickets.

[Jonny Utah]

I think the whole idea behind having these games as a "novelty" works at least once, and I actually bet in this case they might do it again.  Maybe not the year after, but in 5 or 10.  I had the chance to coach my HS team in Fenway Park the first year they had games there and the park had about 10K for the game and now they do it every year for various Massachusetts HS teams (they have about 4 games there a year on Thanksgiving and the night before).  I actually think they make some decent cash for a low key event that doesn't cause many problems with low overhead.

I'm guessing no alcohol will be served at the Cortaca game, and maybe limited food/drink options.  But if they get to over 40/50K, that's a lot of people and a lot of money that I assume goes mostly to the Meadowlands people?

[UfanBill]

The d3football All East Region team's been out for a couple days and no one's commented so here's
what I've got.  It was a great year for the Liberty League topped off by RPI's run to the elite eight. Success begets recognition. 13 LL players were picked to the three teams this year compared to only 9 last season.  Congratulations to ALL these players.                                                                                                         

First Team Defense

LB    Jack Reilly       Union       Sr.    Dumont, N.J.
CB    Tucker Newman    Union    Sr.    Northampton, Mass.
S    Pat Minogue            Ithaca    Sr.    Manorville, N.Y.

Second Team Offense

WR    Will Gladney        Ithaca    Jr.    Binghamton, N.Y.
T    Chris Neu            RPI      Sr.    Mokena, Ill.
C    Bobby Boos    RPI    Sr.    Sayville, N.Y.
K    Kyle Hackett    Hobart    So.    Charlton, Mass.

Second Team Defense

CB    Jovonte Long    Ithaca    Sr.    Syracuse, N.Y.

Third Team Offense

TE    Matthew Woods    Hobart    Sr.    Latham, N.Y.
G    Bobby Puckey    Ithaca    Sr.    Shoreham, N.Y.

Third Team Defense

DT    Brien Pacholec    Ithaca    Sr.    Orchard Park, N.Y.
LB    Jack Hoggard    RPI    Sr.    Acton, Mass.
P    Zac Montrief    RPI    So.    Suwanee, Ga.

[NED3Guy]

Very surprising to not see Andre Ross Jr on the All Region Team. His numbers were pretty amazing this year: 57 for 929 and 13 TD's in just 9 games vs good opponents!?!?!?!?!

No knocks on the other guys who made it, but I have to think Ross earned the right to be on the second or third team.

[Dutch Boy]

Very surprising to not see Andre Ross Jr on the All Region Team. His numbers were pretty amazing this year: 57 for 929 and 13 TD's in just 9 games vs good opponents!?!?!?!?!

No knocks on the other guys who made it, but I have to think Ross earned the right to be on the second or third team.

dlip agrees 100%. The only knock on Ross, and it is a legitimate knock, it that he was not nearly as impressive vs. the top three teams in the league. That, IDLHO, will be the goal for Andre next season. To dominate the DB's at Hobart, RPI, and especially Ithaca like he did against the NE teams.

[Oline89]

Just finished watching Hopkins-MU game, meh.  RPI played Hopkins strong, score got out of hand in the second half, but there wan't a huge disparity between the teams.  As we have all said, the RPI team was disciplined, tough, took advantage of mistakes, but wan't the greatest team in recent memory out of the LL.  The MU team I watched today was beatable, not a juggernaut powerhouse, yet they are undefeated and most likely a Stagg champion again.  JHU should have won that game today, and I could easily see  a LL team in the next few years be equally talented as today's JHU team. So, I ask the LL elite (ITH, ****ing DLIP, Mach, Utes, Bartman, Bomber...) has MU dropped down a notch, has the talent pool spread out a little more?  Or to quote DLIP, am I completely ****ing crazy?

[Machiavelli]

Oline, we’ll know next week. Mount is definitely beatable. I agree Hopkins coulda/shoulda won today. Making those same mistakes woulda lost last week’s game too. I think Brockport woulda beat Mount if they didn’t choke. RPI woulda been in the game today.

That said, I have a sneaking suspicion Mount Union is gonna get smoked next week. If I’m wrong, good for the East. If I’m right, Mount dropped a notch this year.

[Caz Bombers]

Caz agrees with Mach

[HScoach]

The Mount offense is a shell of itself from a month ago.  Jared Ruth, their most consistent and reliable WR is out as is the receiving TE Cole Moxie.  QB Fulford was injured in week 10 (high ankle sprain) and hasn't been right since.  Honestly has been pretty "meh" all season.  The difference has been the defensive scores in crunch time.  Would/could have lost in regular season to John Carroll if not for a strip sack fumble return in the final minute.

The defense is very good, though inconsistent in the secondary.  Can give up some big plays but makes them too.

Oline is average by Mount standards.   RB is solid and runs hard, but isn't a playmaker.

Not one of Mount's better offensive teams even before the injuries.  Defense is championship quality though if the offense carries their weight.  Not MHB style dominant,  but very good.

[Caz Bombers]

Caz should clarify that he only agrees with the part of the above post that says UMHB will beat UMU handily, something similar to today's scoreline against UWW.

Caz does not remotely agree that Brockport would have beaten Mount Union, that is absolutely insane, that final score would have been 53-0, assuming it is still not technically possible for a football team to score negative points.

[Oline89]

The Mount offense is a shell of itself from a month ago.  Jared Ruth, their most consistent and reliable WR is out as is the receiving TE Cole Moxie.  QB Fulford was injured in week 10 (high ankle sprain) and hasn't been right since.  Honestly has been pretty "meh" all season.  The difference has been the defensive scores in crunch time.  Would/could have lost in regular season to John Carroll if not for a strip sack fumble return in the final minute.

The defense is very good, though inconsistent in the secondary.  Can give up some big plays but makes them too.

Oline is average by Mount standards.   RB is solid and runs hard, but isn't a playmaker.

Not one of Mount's better offensive teams even before the injuries.  Defense is championship quality though if the offense carries their weight.  Not MHB style dominant,  but very good.

HScoach, great to see you posting over here on LL page.  So what you are saying about MU losing 2-3 guys on offense, and that making a huge impact on their offense is exactly to which I am alluding.  Normally, MU teams seem to go 8 deep, and the 2,3 deep spots can supposedly start  anywhere else in the country. Every team has at least one crucial injury at this point in the season (UWW was missing a key RB yesterday), it just seemed that MU's incredible depth has kept them dominant for the past 20+years.  The Hopkins offense did fare pretty well against MU yesterday as well, 22 first downs, and 350+ yards of offense.  Just thinking (probably hoping) that there may be an infinitesimal chance of some team breaking through the "purple wall" sometime in the near future.

[HScoach]

In all honesty I think the torch that Mount has carried for the last 2 decades is about to be passed to MHB.  What Mount used to be able to do recruiting wise in Ohio and western PA in the 90's and early 2000's is exactly where MHB is in Texas right now.  Huge amount of untapped high school talent that is available  for a D3 roster.  So many HS players that aren't D1 athletes only because of prototype height or weight that playing at D3 is they're best option. 

Texas is way under recruited at D3 because there hasn't been a lot of D3 presence in the state.  That's changing with the Taj Mahal that MHB built.  In my less than humble opinion,  the only thing holding MHB back is their coach.  They've had better talent than Mount every time we've played them and the series is 2-2.

When Mount's rise began, if you were an Ohio HS kid your options were D1 via the Mid-American Conference or D3.
There was basically nothing in between.   In the last decade or so there have been a bunch of D2 schools pop up that are able to offer partial scholarships that are taking the kids that was Mount's life blood for recruiting.  The tweener guys.  This has especially hurt them along the lines of scrimmage as there are only so many 270 lbs kids around.  Those Ohio kids used come to Mount.   They're now going to Ashland, Tiffin, Notre Dame College, Walsh, Malone, etc.  That competition didn't exist 20 years ago.  That's why you've seen so many out of state kids playing for Mount.  They're recruiting Florida, Virginia, Indiana because they have to.

LK retiring has hurt recruiting too as it should.  VK has done better than expected,  but LK was a one of a kind at the D3 level.  99% of the coaches in his position leaves D3 for the D1 money after 5 to 7 years ala Lance Leipold at UWW leaving for Buffalo.   Even marginally successful D3 coaches like Tom Arth at JCU left as soon as bigger $ came calling.  Nothing against those coaches as I would likely be making the same choice in their shoes, but it goes to show how different LK was.  He was a really good coach that was more than content to stay at home.  If I remember the story correctly  something like all but 2 years of his life was spent outside of the Alliance OH area and that was as a young HS coach.

[Jonny Utah]

In all honesty I think the torch that Mount has carried for the last 2 decades is about to be passed to MHB.  What Mount used to be able to do recruiting wise in Ohio and western PA in the 90's and early 2000's is exactly where MHB is in Texas right now.  Huge amount of untapped high school talent that is available  for a D3 roster.  So many HS players that aren't D1 athletes only because of prototype height or weight that playing at D3 is they're best option. 

Texas is way under recruited at D3 because there hasn't been a lot of D3 presence in the state.  That's changing with the Taj Mahal that MHB built.  In my less than humble opinion,  the only thing holding MHB back is their coach.  They've had better talent than Mount every time we've played them and the series is 2-2.

When Mount's rise began, if you were an Ohio HS kid your options were D1 via the Mid-American Conference or D3.
There was basically nothing in between.   In the last decade or so there have been a bunch of D2 schools pop up that are able to offer partial scholarships that are taking the kids that was Mount's life blood for recruiting.  The tweener guys.  This has especially hurt them along the lines of scrimmage as there are only so many 270 lbs kids around.  Those Ohio kids used come to Mount.   They're now going to Ashland, Tiffin, Notre Dame College, Walsh, Malone, etc.  That competition didn't exist 20 years ago.  That's why you've seen so many out of state kids playing for Mount.  They're recruiting Florida, Virginia, Indiana because they have to.

LK retiring has hurt recruiting too as it should.  VK has done better than expected,  but LK was a one of a kind at the D3 level.  99% of the coaches in his position leaves D3 for the D1 money after 5 to 7 years ala Lance Leipold at UWW leaving for Buffalo.   Even marginally successful D3 coaches like Tom Arth at JCU left as soon as bigger $ came calling.  Nothing against those coaches as I would likely be making the same choice in their shoes, but it goes to show how different LK was.  He was a really good coach that was more than content to stay at home.  If I remember the story correctly  something like all but 2 years of his life was spent outside of the Alliance OH area and that was as a young HS coach.

Mt. Union has only lost 3 regular season games since 1992.  That is amazing.  And I get the competition thing not being there, but there is still a lot of d3/NAIA/d2 football schools in the OH/PA region that you would think one of those schools would have been able to field some good teams in that span (That could do better than 0-25 or 1-24 vs. Mt. Union).  I'm not so sure those added teams affect Mt. Union's recruiting that much.

The talent In TX vs. OH makes sense to me too, but again, there have always been a few D3 schools in Texas, why haven't they been able to do what MHB is doing right now?  Maybe the stadium there is the biggest advantage.

Another interesting point you bring up is the coaches moving up to the next level.  That also seems to be a newer thing with the guys you mentioned.  But there have also have been plenty of successful d3 coaches who have stayed at that level (of course there are only 2 in the last 30 years!  LK and Leopold) 

[Bartman]

Oline, we’ll know next week. Mount is definitely beatable. I agree Hopkins coulda/shoulda won today. Making those same mistakes woulda lost last week’s game too. I think Brockport woulda beat Mount if they didn’t choke. RPI woulda been in the game today.

That said, I have a sneaking suspicion Mount Union is gonna get smoked next week. If I’m wrong, good for the East. If I’m right, Mount dropped a notch this year.

Oline,
     I think the current Mount team has slipped a bit from the past......example is 2008 Mount team with Greg Micheli and Nate Kmic (both first team all decade) that a good 9-1 Hobart team lost to 42-7 in the playoffs. In 2016, a Mount team that eventually made the final four traveled to Geneva and beat Hobart 38-21, but Hobart was tied 21-21 late in the third quarter. A very good QB like Shane Sweeney can exploit the inconsistency of the Raider db's that never seem to be challenged by the OAC....but they are also athletic and can take advantage of your mistakes with INTs. Beating a Mount team is possible by the best from the East( wonder how Brockport would have done on a dry field against the Mount DBs..I think very well), but frankly it  probably needs to be an off day by Mount and the East team needs to be close to perfect(Hopkins had their chance , for sure). I think the days of a Mount team simply rolling the best from the East are less likely , but beating them will always be a talent and coaching challenge. I think UMHB has way better athletes and would be a VERY long shot for Eastern teams, .. UMHB should beat Mount Union by 2 touchdowns, and even if Hopkins got past the Purple Raiders , the chance of beating UMHB is even more remote. IMO, UMHB with a better " game" coach should clobber the entire field in the playoffs
      I was happy with the LL competition this year and I think Hobart has a great chance in 2019 with so many returning starters. RPI did a great job representing the LL in the playoffs and I think the eventual winner of the LL will be well tested for the playoffs. The E8 rivalry was mostly won by the LL in 2018 and I expect that to continue next year....especially with the Bombers win at MetLife in 2019!

[Ralph Turner]

In all honesty I think the torch that Mount has carried for the last 2 decades is about to be passed to MHB.  What Mount used to be able to do recruiting wise in Ohio and western PA in the 90's and early 2000's is exactly where MHB is in Texas right now.  Huge amount of untapped high school talent that is available  for a D3 roster.  So many HS players that aren't D1 athletes only because of prototype height or weight that playing at D3 is they're best option. 

Texas is way under recruited at D3 because there hasn't been a lot of D3 presence in the state.  That's changing with the Taj Mahal that MHB built.  In my less than humble opinion,  the only thing holding MHB back is their coach.  They've had better talent than Mount every time we've played them and the series is 2-2.

When Mount's rise began, if you were an Ohio HS kid your options were D1 via the Mid-American Conference or D3.
There was basically nothing in between.   In the last decade or so there have been a bunch of D2 schools pop up that are able to offer partial scholarships that are taking the kids that was Mount's life blood for recruiting.  The tweener guys.  This has especially hurt them along the lines of scrimmage as there are only so many 270 lbs kids around.  Those Ohio kids used come to Mount.   They're now going to Ashland, Tiffin, Notre Dame College, Walsh, Malone, etc.  That competition didn't exist 20 years ago.  That's why you've seen so many out of state kids playing for Mount.  They're recruiting Florida, Virginia, Indiana because they have to.

LK retiring has hurt recruiting too as it should.  VK has done better than expected,  but LK was a one of a kind at the D3 level.  99% of the coaches in his position leaves D3 for the D1 money after 5 to 7 years ala Lance Leipold at UWW leaving for Buffalo.   Even marginally successful D3 coaches like Tom Arth at JCU left as soon as bigger $ came calling.  Nothing against those coaches as I would likely be making the same choice in their shoes, but it goes to show how different LK was.  He was a really good coach that was more than content to stay at home.  If I remember the story correctly  something like all but 2 years of his life was spent outside of the Alliance OH area and that was as a young HS coach.

Mt. Union has only lost 3 regular season games since 1992.  That is amazing.  And I get the competition thing not being there, but there is still a lot of d3/NAIA/d2 football schools in the OH/PA region that you would think one of those schools would have been able to field some good teams in that span (That could do better than 0-25 or 1-24 vs. Mt. Union).  I'm not so sure those added teams affect Mt. Union's recruiting that much.

The talent In TX vs. OH makes sense to me too, but again, there have always been a few D3 schools in Texas, why haven't they been able to do what MHB is doing right now?  Maybe the stadium there is the biggest advantage.

Another interesting point you bring up is the coaches moving up to the next level.  That also seems to be a newer thing with the guys you mentioned.  But there have also have been plenty of successful d3 coaches who have stayed at that level (of course there are only 2 in the last 30 years!  LK and Leopold)

Actually Texas schools have had very good success, especially when you consider that we eliminate ourselves early in the playoffs.

First it was Trinity and HSU. HSU then competed with UMHB. UMHB has been able to shut things down for a lot of other schools.

We ASC fans complain that we never get bracketed in the playoffs where we deserve because of geographic proximity. I wish that we had the proximity to the East Region that Alliance OH (UMU), and/ or Dover DE (Wesley) and/ or Baltimore MD (JHU) have.

If HSU makes the playoffs, it will be sent against the Pool A of another Power Conference (The Northwest Conference⁺⁺).

The ASC is 29-15 in the playoffs thru the four rounds of the 2018 season since the 2009 playoffs.

2011 McMurry beat TrinityTX  in the first round and lost to UMHB in the second round.
2102 Louisiana College lost to UMHB in first round.
2015 HSU lost to UMHB in the first round.
2018 HSU lost to UMHB in the first round.

That makes the "non-conference" record 25-11. (.695).

Thanks.

⁺⁺Would we agree that the Power Conferences are ASC, CCIW, MIAC, NWC, OAC, and WIAC?  Is another conference in the Eastern Time Zone that is worthy of consideration as a Power Conference year after year?