Poll

We are in December, how do we feel about the TOP talk?

It is amazing.  We need more TOP talk.
7 (50%)
We have the right amount of TOP talk for now.
1 (7.1%)
The TOP talk is getting old, time to move on.
6 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: December 09, 2019, 03:33:10 pm

Author Topic: FB: Liberty League  (Read 4163030 times)

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52875 on: November 30, 2019, 04:06:38 pm »
Any idea what happened at the end of the Union game? I saw the video but am curious if anyone knows what started it all. Have to imagine Union players were running their mouths at some point to start it. If there was no catalyst, it’s an embarrassing look for Salisbury. Couldn’t not feel embarrassed for the goofy out of shape kid jumping up and down waving like a total loser. He looked like an extra in Varsity Blues acting like a tough guy. But again, I have to imagine something caused that reaction in the first place.

Offline FANOFD3

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52876 on: November 30, 2019, 04:25:39 pm »
Any idea what happened at the end of the Union game? I saw the video but am curious if anyone knows what started it all. Have to imagine Union players were running their mouths at some point to start it. If there was no catalyst, it’s an embarrassing look for Salisbury. Couldn’t not feel embarrassed for the goofy out of shape kid jumping up and down waving like a total loser. He looked like an extra in Varsity Blues acting like a tough guy. But again, I have to imagine something caused that reaction in the first place.

It was a few players on both sides,  both staffs did a great job separating each team after a hard fought game.  But most of it started with Salisbury RB getting his shoe tossed by one of the Union players and same player hitting RB late in the 4th in the head,  so tensions between two players were the main culprit.  Again Kudos to both staffs for handling it perfectly before any unnecessary ejections, which would have only affected Salisbury.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 04:31:50 pm by MANDGSU »

Offline UfanBill

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52877 on: November 30, 2019, 04:33:05 pm »
Any idea what happened at the end of the Union game? I saw the video but am curious if anyone knows what started it all. Have to imagine Union players were running their mouths at some point to start it. If there was no catalyst, it’s an embarrassing look for Salisbury. Couldn’t not feel embarrassed for the goofy out of shape kid jumping up and down waving like a total loser. He looked like an extra in Varsity Blues acting like a tough guy. But again, I have to imagine something caused that reaction in the first place.

I saw one thing that might have precipitated it besides the shoe thing. On the last kneel down Union LB Colin Lama came across hard and was stone walled by a Seagull O-lineman. It was a little unnecessary but something not out of Lama's character. The players on the field seemed to have it handled but Salisbury coach Sherman Wood came charging onto the field with possibly bad intentions? There were no punches or anything that I saw but evidentially coach Wood thought he needed to intervene. 

And the shoe thing? a Union player threw a loose shoe towards his sidelines. Maybe thought it belonged to a teammate or just frustration. RB who lost the shoe took exception.
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Offline Ice Bear

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52878 on: November 30, 2019, 04:47:29 pm »
Ice says the Union D was beyond frustrated today as they played their hearts out but could't do **** to slow down the Gulls O. Ice wouldn't be surprised if a player or players on the Union D were fired up and let their frustrations get the better of them. They got ****ing pounded all day and the feeling of powerlessness that must have come along with that must have been off the charts. Wish they kept their **** together but hey, they left it all out there.

Ice Bear is now rooting for the Gulls big time against the Mules.
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Offline unionpalooza

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52879 on: December 01, 2019, 11:45:54 am »
Just noticed an interesting wrinkle on yesterday’s game, which I’m surprised no one picked up.  Sherman Woods is Salisbury State class of ‘84, which means he would have finished his playing career in a tournament semifinal loss to Union.  Small world.

Offline UfanBill

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52880 on: December 01, 2019, 11:53:08 am »
Just noticed an interesting wrinkle on yesterday’s game, which I’m surprised no one picked up.  Sherman Woods is Salisbury State class of ‘84, which means he would have finished his playing career in a tournament semifinal loss to Union.  Small world.

Tim Wilkin of the Albany Times Union ran a story entitled "Salisbury coach gets another shot at Dutchmen" in their Thanksgiving morning edition. I tried to post it but was blocked on Friday. Here it is a day late...https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/Salisbury-coach-gets-another-shot-at-Union-14864586.php
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Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52881 on: December 01, 2019, 12:40:42 pm »
Bartman felt the Union offense outperformed and the defense just didn't have the scheme or the horses to stop a very talented Salisbury offense. Salisbury looks like it is peaking at the right time and based on what I saw of the NCC v. Mount Union game, have a chance( I said a chance) to get to the Stagg Bowl. However, Muhlenberg is also peaking at the right time and manhandled the Golden Eagles yesterday. Bartman is rooting for the Mules since they have ex Statesmen player /alum  Nate Milne( Hobart '03)as coach and advancing the Mules to a place they have never been before after inheriting a great program from Mike Donnelly(Ithaca '75). I believe the Seagulls and the Mules will provide some fantastic football next Saturday and a big challenge to the winner of the NCC vs. Delaware Valley winner .
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 10:20:41 pm by Bartman »
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Offline unionpalooza

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52882 on: December 01, 2019, 01:47:14 pm »
Bartman felt the Union offense outperformed and the defense just didn't have the scheme or the horses to stop a very talented Salisbury offense. Salisbury looks like it is peaking at the right time and based on what I saw of the NCC v. Mount Union game, have a chance( I said a chance) to get to the Stagg Bowl. However, Muhlenberg is also peaking at the right time and manhandled the Golden Eagles yesterday. Bartman is rooting for the Mules since they have ex Statesmen coach Nate Milne( Hobart '03) advancing the Mules to a place they have never been before after inheriting a great program from Mike Donnelly(Ithaca '75). I believe the Seagulls and the Mules will provide some fantastic football next Saturday and a big challenge to the winner of the NCC vs. Delaware Valley winner .

That’s it in a nutshell.  The Salisbury D got absolutely hosed by the Union passing game, and I’d expect more of the same against the Mules.  I couldn’t tell if it was a scheme problem or their D was just too slow, but given the size and athleticism Salisbury had on defense, it was pretty surprising to me that Union just passed all over them.

But there O was completely unstoppable; Union just didn’t have the size at DL or LB (or DB for that matter) to fight through blocks and wrap up tackles.  But as Montclair showed earlier this season, a D with the requisite size strength has a fighting chance to slow them down.

On paper Muhlenburg’s D looks not much bigger than Union’s, so I wonder.  Del Valley has the big boys, though, and that would be another story.

Offline Ice Bear

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52883 on: December 01, 2019, 03:57:43 pm »
Bartman felt the Union offense outperformed and the defense just didn't have the scheme or the horses to stop a very talented Salisbury offense. Salisbury looks like it is peaking at the right time and based on what I saw of the NCC v. Mount Union game, have a chance( I said a chance) to get to the Stagg Bowl. However, Muhlenberg is also peaking at the right time and manhandled the Golden Eagles yesterday. Bartman is rooting for the Mules since they have ex Statesmen coach Nate Milne( Hobart '03) advancing the Mules to a place they have never been before after inheriting a great program from Mike Donnelly(Ithaca '75). I believe the Seagulls and the Mules will provide some fantastic football next Saturday and a big challenge to the winner of the NCC vs. Delaware Valley winner .

That’s it in a nutshell.  The Salisbury D got absolutely hosed by the Union passing game, and I’d expect more of the same against the Mules.  I couldn’t tell if it was a scheme problem or their D was just too slow, but given the size and athleticism Salisbury had on defense, it was pretty surprising to me that Union just passed all over them.

But there O was completely unstoppable; Union just didn’t have the size at DL or LB (or DB for that matter) to fight through blocks and wrap up tackles.  But as Montclair showed earlier this season, a D with the requisite size strength has a fighting chance to slow them down.

On paper Muhlenburg’s D looks not much bigger than Union’s, so I wonder.  Del Valley has the big boys, though, and that would be another story.

Ice Bear says this is exactly what he saw. His worry for Salisbury is defending the Mules passing game. Yesterday the Gull defense was a bit better than Union’s, but not by much. Ice would also agree that the Union O played its best game but even with that being the case Ice hasn’t seen the Dutchmen O cut through a D in the air at will like that this season. The Gulls better tighten **** up. Hoping they do and would love to see them take out the Mules.
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Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52884 on: December 02, 2019, 10:36:24 am »
Just a complement to the D3.com latest poll which ranked all of the final 8 teams in the NCAA tournament in the top 9 (despite Mount Union falling), which validates the process, at least based on this year's results. I think Union at #13 was fairly ranked and the Liberty League is strong and provides some great top level competition for our student athletes. Now I need to concentrate on William Smith soccer's final four appearance this weekend in Greensboro, follow Hobart Hockey(ranked #2 in D3) and the highly ranked HWS debate team(for real ;D).
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Offline Doid23

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52885 on: December 02, 2019, 01:33:30 pm »
What a great season for the Dutchmen, what a turnaround for the program from 0-10 4 years ago. Although disappointed in the loss to Salisbury, they were just a better team, but Union's offense certainly gave them a scare.
And a very good season for the Liberty League. Nice recognition for Joe G. as a Gagliardi Semifinalist, some good OOC results, and given good showings the last few years in the NCAA's, looks like the LL is on an upward trend.

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52886 on: December 03, 2019, 01:07:04 pm »
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-the-d3fb-huddle/id1464734010

Just listened to ITH on last weeks games.  Pretty solid recap.  Although I disagreed with some of the takes on Ithaca this year, ITH always does a good job come playoff time with recaps and playoff insights.

Regarding the end of the Union/Salisbury game though I will say this.  Teams can talk **** all game and the often do (I have no idea if that happened in this game).  At the end of the game most teams usually just stop the **** talking and 99% of the time take the high road and shake hands and slap asses.  The union LB crossed the line and made a physical (albeit a legal) move when the game was over.  That move set forward a chain of events that no coach, AD, or anyone can control.  The Union LB is 99% at fault here.  When you do something like that, don't expect teams to just play nice anymore and shake hands like nothing happened.  As a coach I know this is something that is very hard to control once the dirty play happens.  Once teams start the joint taunting thing, it is almost impossible to stop on the field.  I don't fault any coach or AD from how they handled what happened after the game. 




Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52887 on: December 03, 2019, 01:23:30 pm »
As for Salisbury I just don't see an option offense like that make it to the final.  I can't remember the last time I've seen any team run an option like that in a national championship game at any level of college football.  The old Georgia Southern teams maybe?

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52888 on: December 03, 2019, 02:03:33 pm »
I was recently informed to listen to the first few minutes of the ITH podcast regarding the end of the Union game. This act is so tired in defending Union so strongly or whatever else one believes in. I know when I first saw it, I thought it was a bad look for Salisbury IF it wasn't provoked. It WAS provoked. Honestly, the QB waving was a total baller move. Kid played a great game, probably had sh!t talked to him the entire game. And was like 'Seeeee ya!'. Total baller move. My skin definitely crawled a bit when the reserve DL came in jumping up and down doing a stupid bird dance looking like a total tool, but he has to live with that being on video. Definitely got a little excessive but whatever, it's the heat of the moment and it happens sometimes in competitive sports.  I'm actually quite sure it's not the first ending to a football game this year where teams had to be separated. Just the first that i've seen where it got blasted on social media and someone needs to be blamed or shamed.

But where was all the outrage last year when the Union LB threw the ball over the RPI field house after he scored on an INT? Ohhhhhhh, it was a Union guy so it was ok. Got it. That was 'bush league' in the same sense. But, even against my own team, I loved the move. In the heat of the moment, emotions take over and as long as no one is swinging a helmet at someones head, everyone should be ok at the end of the day.

Trying to slam coaches or the QB or 'adults in the room'...Take a hike. Sh!t happens in a competitive sport. No one loves it. No one hurt anyone physically outside of a few feelings and butts. Honestly, Union has now ended 2 seasons in a row now with some 'event' to end their last game. Maybe there's an issue with the coaching staff keeping players disciplined. I don't recall this under Audino. Maybe he should be brought back afterall.

Kidding aside from the last statement, Behrman has these kids playing with p & v and that is why they are getting better. They have swag. They have heart. They have emotion. Sometimes stuff happens when you play that way. But if you run your mouth or do something stupid on a kneel down before the game ends, you have whatever is coming to you. And honestly, being waved at and told to enjoy the ride home and some celebratory dancing really isn't all that bad at the end of the day now is it? You kinda deserved it, yeah? Those other guys have no reason to take your sh!t. Yeah sure, you can always be 'the bigger man' and turn a blind eye to it. But that happens rarely. The video and corresponding comments of the poster of the video were one-sided against Salisbury and their coaches and what do you know, another witch hunt was started. Grab your pitch forks ladies and gentlemen.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 02:05:57 pm by Machiavelli »

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #52889 on: December 03, 2019, 02:32:16 pm »
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-the-d3fb-huddle/id1464734010

Just listened to ITH on last weeks games.  Pretty solid recap.  Although I disagreed with some of the takes on Ithaca this year, ITH always does a good job come playoff time with recaps and playoff insights.

Regarding the end of the Union/Salisbury game though I will say this.  Teams can talk **** all game and the often do (I have no idea if that happened in this game).  At the end of the game most teams usually just stop the **** talking and 99% of the time take the high road and shake hands and slap asses.  The union LB crossed the line and made a physical (albeit a legal) move when the game was over.  That move set forward a chain of events that no coach, AD, or anyone can control.  The Union LB is 99% at fault here.  When you do something like that, don't expect teams to just play nice anymore and shake hands like nothing happened.  As a coach I know this is something that is very hard to control once the dirty play happens.  Once teams start the joint taunting thing, it is almost impossible to stop on the field.  I don't fault any coach or AD from how they handled what happened after the game.

JU, totally agree with your take here.  I wrote a response to Mach over the weekend, then deleted it.  The Union LB going all out on a kneel down play is as bush league as it gets.  He is lucky it didn't turn out to be an all out brawl at that point.  Salisbury acted the way 18-22 yr olds, jacked up on Testosterone after a huge win at home, are going to respond.  Unfortunately, the boys didn't get a chance to shake hands at the end, maybe the coaches could have done a better job at forcing the issue.  Game ending handshakes teach humility to both winners and losers.