Author Topic: FB: Liberty League  (Read 4442492 times)

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53235 on: April 25, 2020, 08:57:07 am »
It goes without saying (or maybe it doesn't  ???) that if there is no classes on campus, then there are no sports.  My point was, bringing students back in stages (fall athletes first), then maybe freshamn, then upperclass would allow the groups to be tested in smaller cohorts.  Easing the burden on the schools.

Okay, so now justify the athletes being the first ones back in a way that doesn't confer favoritism due to them being athletes, which not only would be a PR nightmare, but probably an NCAA violation.

Because I have no idea what that justification could possibly be.

Aren't the fall athletes always the first students back on campus? Followed by incoming freshmen for orientation and then the bulk of the student body. I see this as a non-issue. Am I missing something?

Athletes aren't the only ones who come back early. Why not the RAs, or orientation leaders, or student workers? The RAs and orientation leaders, in particular, would be more critical if you're planning to have the rest of the student body to follow in the coming weeks.

EDIT: And along those lines, I'd think you'd want student employees in certain areas back early too (like the dining hall), if you're going to have thousands of students following them the next week.

I think logistically it won't happen the way Oline89 is saying, simply because if you can have 100 players and coaches mixing together, then you can have 30 kids in a class or a dorm mixing together, so in essence, things will be back to normal anyway, so why would you ease the football team back first, why not ease the classroom and dorms back first, and push the season back....

So basically I'm assuming 30 kids in a class or 100 kids in each dorm is going to happen before 100 kids/coaches/trainers/etc on an athletic field.  The can happen at the same time, or if it's like any other year, the 100 athletes come back first.

Some other random thoughts on my own end, is what is going to happen to local High Schools, especially public versus private.  Are kids going to spend money to attend private schools if distance learning continues?  At that point you might as well spend the money on private tutors in addition to your free public school education.  I have also read that many (mostly international) students are steering away from NY and NE schools for the specific reason of this virus (why take your chance at Columbia being shut down when you can go to Vanderbilt or Cal Berkley).  Will this affect LL schools in anyway?

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53236 on: April 28, 2020, 04:28:49 pm »
I'm curious: given the budget constraints a lot of schools are dealing with, and are going to be dealing with, are we going to see less of an emphasis on athletics going forward? We're seeing programs being cut or put on hiatus, and staff and faculty furloughed. I'm not so sure athletics is going to emerge from this unscathed.

Offline ITH radio

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53237 on: April 28, 2020, 06:44:29 pm »
Coaches are still going to do their jobs to recruit and train student athletes and win games. They probably will have smaller coaching staffs due to budget cuts and less financial aid to help some families be able to afford a private school degree.

Ultimately will depend on how well the gradual reopening process starts working. CA announced today and we expect FL to do the same Thursday or Friday as the mandated shutdown technically ends on 4/30.

Time will tell.
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Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53238 on: April 29, 2020, 10:15:38 am »
I'm curious: given the budget constraints a lot of schools are dealing with, and are going to be dealing with, are we going to see less of an emphasis on athletics going forward? We're seeing programs being cut or put on hiatus, and staff and faculty furloughed. I'm not so sure athletics is going to emerge from this unscathed.

Leaving out Johns Hopkins, M.I.T., the NESCAC, the UAA and other highly selective colleges and universities, if it were taken to the extreme (and it won't be) and athletics were to go bye bye, many schools would miss admissions goals in a significant way on an annual basis and for primarily tuition dependent institutions, this would be the death knell.

I actually see the opposite happening as a way to increase (or stay flat) enrollment. Schools are adding or looking to add (where they don't have) women's wrestling (who knew?), men's volleyball and, believe it or not, eSports offerings. Now, this Fall could change that calculus considerably, but I think that you will see many more schools close their doors for good vs. slashing athletic programs.

On another note, here is an interesting read from ESPN this morning...........

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29088227/how-coronavirus-affect-college-football-season-2020

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53239 on: April 29, 2020, 12:54:39 pm »
I'm curious: given the budget constraints a lot of schools are dealing with, and are going to be dealing with, are we going to see less of an emphasis on athletics going forward? We're seeing programs being cut or put on hiatus, and staff and faculty furloughed. I'm not so sure athletics is going to emerge from this unscathed.

Leaving out Johns Hopkins, M.I.T., the NESCAC, the UAA and other highly selective colleges and universities, if it were taken to the extreme (and it won't be) and athletics were to go bye bye, many schools would miss admissions goals in a significant way on an annual basis and for primarily tuition dependent institutions, this would be the death knell.

I actually see the opposite happening as a way to increase (or stay flat) enrollment. Schools are adding or looking to add (where they don't have) women's wrestling (who knew?), men's volleyball and, believe it or not, eSports offerings. Now, this Fall could change that calculus considerably, but I think that you will see many more schools close their doors for good vs. slashing athletic programs.

On another note, here is an interesting read from ESPN this morning...........

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29088227/how-coronavirus-affect-college-football-season-2020

Schools that were teetering on the financial brink will probably have difficulty emerging from the pandemic.  However, remember, this is a temporary dilemma.  The way we greet each other, number of people in supermarkets at one time, maybe even the total number of people allowed at massive sporting events (and other than Cortica, don''t see how this affects the LL), all may change.  However, saying that colleges could be looking toward less emphasis on sports is really reactionary.  This fall may see some changes, but other than that, I just can't fathom a long term change to college athletics

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53240 on: April 29, 2020, 03:36:09 pm »
Yeah if the president of Brown (known for being the most liberal of the Ivies) is pushing for reopening in the fall, you have to think many other less well funded will find a way that factors in social distances, and other safeguards as needed.
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Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53241 on: April 29, 2020, 04:18:35 pm »
I'm curious: given the budget constraints a lot of schools are dealing with, and are going to be dealing with, are we going to see less of an emphasis on athletics going forward? We're seeing programs being cut or put on hiatus, and staff and faculty furloughed. I'm not so sure athletics is going to emerge from this unscathed.

Leaving out Johns Hopkins, M.I.T., the NESCAC, the UAA and other highly selective colleges and universities, if it were taken to the extreme (and it won't be) and athletics were to go bye bye, many schools would miss admissions goals in a significant way on an annual basis and for primarily tuition dependent institutions, this would be the death knell.

I actually see the opposite happening as a way to increase (or stay flat) enrollment. Schools are adding or looking to add (where they don't have) women's wrestling (who knew?), men's volleyball and, believe it or not, eSports offerings. Now, this Fall could change that calculus considerably, but I think that you will see many more schools close their doors for good vs. slashing athletic programs.

On another note, here is an interesting read from ESPN this morning...........

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29088227/how-coronavirus-affect-college-football-season-2020

Schools that were teetering on the financial brink will probably have difficulty emerging from the pandemic.  However, remember, this is a temporary dilemma.  The way we greet each other, number of people in supermarkets at one time, maybe even the total number of people allowed at massive sporting events (and other than Cortica, don''t see how this affects the LL), all may change.  However, saying that colleges could be looking toward less emphasis on sports is really reactionary.  This fall may see some changes, but other than that, I just can't fathom a long term change to college athletics

Agree! I don't see a long term change either. The short and mid-term is going to be real tough and you are right, the schools teetering before the pandemic will be in the most trouble. It was going to happen anyway.............this just moves up the timetable. The resulting conference shuffling will be interesting to say the least.

Offline Ice Bear

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53242 on: May 06, 2020, 11:30:35 am »
Ice Bear says he hopes all on the LLPP, and their loved ones, are doing well.
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Offline gordonmann

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53243 on: May 06, 2020, 11:48:56 am »
Back at ya.

Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53244 on: May 12, 2020, 07:32:50 am »
Finger Lakes Region is one of three NYS regions to get the green light for Phase One effective May 15. Good news for HWS and Rochester. Not sure what this means for football after Fauci comment that football is a difficult sport for the virus.  Goodell and NFL are sending big bucks on research to keep NFL players safe and keep prospects of season positive. Lots to happen in the next few months that will hopefully get colleges open(Phase 4 in NY) and athletes back to competition safely. Hobart Football is lucky to have Rochester based medical resources close by with some Hobart grads in key medical positions to guide the return. Stay safe and hopefully we will see some football this Fall, as these student athletes expect to participate. Cuomo ....I hope you love football ;D
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Offline UfanBill

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53245 on: May 12, 2020, 02:23:03 pm »
Finger Lakes Region is one of three NYS regions to get the green light for Phase One effective May 15. Good news for HWS and Rochester. Not sure what this means for football after Fauci comment that football is a difficult sport for the virus.  Goodell and NFL are sending big bucks on research to keep NFL players safe and keep prospects of season positive. Lots to happen in the next few months that will hopefully get colleges open(Phase 4 in NY) and athletes back to competition safely. Hobart Football is lucky to have Rochester based medical resources close by with some Hobart grads in key medical positions to guide the return. Stay safe and hopefully we will see some football this Fall, as these student athletes expect to participate. Cuomo ....I hope you love football ;D

I understand your optimism Bartman but I really don't see a path to Division III football this fall. Too many added costs and headaches for the schools to worry about athletics. As a football fan, already well into the fourth quarter of life, it really hurts. I do think we'll have the NFL and maybe some NCAA FCS...yeah,maybe... One can only hope.  :'(     
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Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53246 on: May 13, 2020, 10:11:34 am »
Finger Lakes Region is one of three NYS regions to get the green light for Phase One effective May 15. Good news for HWS and Rochester. Not sure what this means for football after Fauci comment that football is a difficult sport for the virus.  Goodell and NFL are sending big bucks on research to keep NFL players safe and keep prospects of season positive. Lots to happen in the next few months that will hopefully get colleges open(Phase 4 in NY) and athletes back to competition safely. Hobart Football is lucky to have Rochester based medical resources close by with some Hobart grads in key medical positions to guide the return. Stay safe and hopefully we will see some football this Fall, as these student athletes expect to participate. Cuomo ....I hope you love football ;D

I understand your optimism Bartman but I really don't see a path to Division III football this fall. Too many added costs and headaches for the schools to worry about athletics. As a football fan, already well into the fourth quarter of life, it really hurts. I do think we'll have the NFL and maybe some NCAA FCS...yeah,maybe... One can only hope.  :'(   
Without athletics for these schools, the financial hit will be dramatic since many of the kids will delay attendance if online is the choice or losing a year of sports in the Fall. At HWS, 35% of our students are athletes and the football roster is about 100 . HWS will survive this hit, but expect quite a few colleges to close in this economic stress due to reliance on tuition. This will not immediately impact the LL Football schools with 200MM+ Endowments , but I can count many schools in New York that were hurting with the change in demographics and this crisis is pretty much the nail in the coffin. UFan Bill, we will continue our fight back to normalcy and hope for the best.
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Offline Caz Bombers

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53247 on: May 13, 2020, 11:15:59 am »
In upstate NY at least, I don't think the D3s well off enough to have football are the ones truly at risk of going under. The shakiest of that cohort are probably Utica and Hartwick - Wick's endowment is about 3 times the size of Utica's, but Utica has been growing while Hartwick seems to stagger from one crisis to another.

Overall in New York Division III I would rank Wells, Medaille and Hilbert as the closest to the boneyard. Wells has under 500 students and has outright said it is done if it can't open face to face in the fall. Medaille has only $8M for an endowment, a 37 percent graduation rate, a president recently condemned by the faculty for seizing emergency powers to cover up mismanagement. Hilbert has about 700 students, $6M endowment and almost merged into St. Bonaventure University in 2016.

Elsewhere in the E8, I've heard rumblings about Sage and personally don't feel great about Elmira (900 students, endowment $38M which isn't too terrible) and Keuka ($14M endowment but only about 1700 students).

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53248 on: May 13, 2020, 11:29:57 am »
Finger Lakes Region is one of three NYS regions to get the green light for Phase One effective May 15. Good news for HWS and Rochester. Not sure what this means for football after Fauci comment that football is a difficult sport for the virus.  Goodell and NFL are sending big bucks on research to keep NFL players safe and keep prospects of season positive. Lots to happen in the next few months that will hopefully get colleges open(Phase 4 in NY) and athletes back to competition safely. Hobart Football is lucky to have Rochester based medical resources close by with some Hobart grads in key medical positions to guide the return. Stay safe and hopefully we will see some football this Fall, as these student athletes expect to participate. Cuomo ....I hope you love football ;D

I understand your optimism Bartman but I really don't see a path to Division III football this fall. Too many added costs and headaches for the schools to worry about athletics. As a football fan, already well into the fourth quarter of life, it really hurts. I do think we'll have the NFL and maybe some NCAA FCS...yeah,maybe... One can only hope.  :'(   
Without athletics for these schools, the financial hit will be dramatic since many of the kids will delay attendance if online is the choice or losing a year of sports in the Fall. At HWS, 35% of our students are athletes and the football roster is about 100 . HWS will survive this hit, but expect quite a few colleges to close in this economic stress due to reliance on tuition. This will not immediately impact the LL Football schools with 200MM+ Endowments , but I can count many schools in New York that were hurting with the change in demographics and this crisis is pretty much the nail in the coffin. UFan Bill, we will continue our fight back to normalcy and hope for the best.

Well I wonder how many kids could prolong their athletic (and academic) careers one semester in order to play one more year?  So students take this fall off, then start in the spring and "graduate" after their final fall semester while playing football that fall.  Or get a dual major and load up this fall for extra classes.  Grad school might be an option at some LL schools but probably not feasible for most schools. 

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53249 on: May 14, 2020, 10:03:01 am »
If the NCAA grants another year of eligibility (similar to Spring athletes), then the student athletes could go the Grad student route (similar to Joe G last year), or take a class or two (perhaps even online classes?).  Of course, the athletes would have to cover the cost of tuition, and room/board for another semester.  I wonder how this would affect the job prospects for the graduates.  Business guys, would hiring in the winter be a detriment to the job applicant?