Author Topic: FB: Liberty League  (Read 4613637 times)

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53370 on: July 16, 2020, 07:09:20 am »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53371 on: July 16, 2020, 11:20:56 am »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Well I had a whole response written out with statistics, risk, etc.  However, I will just say I disagree with you.  Not that it matters, with nobody left to play, there is no reason to fight.  Hopefully the Spring somehow becomes available, or this year's Hobart senior class all decides to come back in 2021.  This was Hobart's year, would have run the table in the LL. 

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53372 on: July 16, 2020, 12:06:17 pm »
ITH just had a real good podcast last night about the current situation.  Very informative and the best part may have been a Q&A with Lake Forest head coach Jim Catanzaro.  A few things that I learned:

-It seems like the Ncaa has offered little guidance to schools and leagues on what they should do regarding testing, scheduling, spring seasons, etc.  It seems like they may be focusing on the SEC more than d3 and that of course leaves us all hanging.

-good discussion on how schools test, costs of testing and how that affects each school.  Some colleges simply may not be able to afford the tests, and may not even be able to get them if they are in an area that gets hit hard and might need the tests for others.  Also saving costs on some cancelled overnight trips and other games can go to testing funds if needed or possible.

-talk about the helmet/mask discussion and the headway companies like Oakley are making with some new technology that may protect the spread (or what we think may stop the spread) of Covid.

-talk about only league games in the spring but how having 10 games in the spring and 10 games in the fall isn’t gonna be safe and most coaches are going to be against it.

-will teams from leagues that have shut down be allowed to get some non league action? (Hamilton, Springfield, Colby). How will that work?

-running into title 9 issues in terms of schedules and conferences.

- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing? 

- one of the common themes I think is going on at all levels of this virus (including HS sports) is that I get this sense that fall sports at many places are just going ahead as planned until they are told other wise, and that decision may be made by a school president, governor, league president, ncaa official, etc.  Lake Forest is playing d3 football and they are doing the same things that have always done, and that’s a good sign. 

JB has a great quote/thought on there and that’s simply being optimistic is the best way to go about this whole thing.  So I’ll leave my post with an optimistic outlook too and say there will be d3 football played in the fall this year. 

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53373 on: July 16, 2020, 12:09:29 pm »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Well I had a whole response written out with statistics, risk, etc.  However, I will just say I disagree with you.  Not that it matters, with nobody left to play, there is no reason to fight.  Hopefully the Spring somehow becomes available, or this year's Hobart senior class all decides to come back in 2021.  This was Hobart's year, would have run the table in the LL.

Oline................did you see that the D-II PSAC has shut everything down until January 1? With 16 schools in PA and many that are close to MAC schools, I wonder what the fate of the MAC is as it comes to playing anything this Fall?

Offline jamtod

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53374 on: July 16, 2020, 12:24:14 pm »

JB has a great quote/thought on there and that’s simply being optimistic is the best way to go about this whole thing.  So I’ll leave my post with an optimistic outlook too and say there will be d3 football played in the fall this year.

I work in commercial lending for a major bank and as we've seen this play out with businesses since March, the customers that give us comfort are the ones that are simultaneously optimistic AND preparing for the worst, considering all the risks and contingency plans, being strategic about business decisions and protecting their employees (mostly manufacturers - putting social distancing in place on the factory floor, restricting entrances/exits, working remotely where feasible).

We've also seen companies with their heads in the sand, convinced that everything was going to blow over in 2 weeks and they didn't need to adapt and everything would be fine, that are causing the most heartache now. When I heard comments in March about "business as usual" with no discussion about contingency planning, it scared the crap out of me.

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53375 on: July 16, 2020, 12:40:16 pm »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Well I had a whole response written out with statistics, risk, etc.  However, I will just say I disagree with you.  Not that it matters, with nobody left to play, there is no reason to fight.  Hopefully the Spring somehow becomes available, or this year's Hobart senior class all decides to come back in 2021.  This was Hobart's year, would have run the table in the LL.

Oline................did you see that the D-II PSAC has shut everything down until January 1? With 16 schools in PA and many that are close to MAC schools, I wonder what the fate of the MAC is as it comes to playing anything this Fall?

More going on with the PSAC than is being reported.  I am sure it is financial, state will not pay for that many tests.  I have also heard that every school is going to Online learning only, perhaps because the very strong PA state teachers union is refusing to teach in person

Offline ITH radio

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53376 on: July 16, 2020, 12:53:30 pm »
JB has a great quote/thought on there and that’s simply being optimistic is the best way to go about this whole thing.  So I’ll leave my post with an optimistic outlook too and say there will be d3 football played in the fall this year.

Thanks and appreciate your positive recap and feedback on what was one of our better, albeit very impromptu, shows. Coach Cat really made it extra special given how candid and informative he was regarding the NCAA, among other things.

The quote I used is from Albert Einstein (a smart guy, or so I've heard): "I'd rather be optimistic and a fool than a pessimist and right."
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Offline wally_wabash

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53377 on: July 16, 2020, 01:35:09 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots. 
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Offline jamtod

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53378 on: July 16, 2020, 01:55:22 pm »
JB has a great quote/thought on there and that’s simply being optimistic is the best way to go about this whole thing.  So I’ll leave my post with an optimistic outlook too and say there will be d3 football played in the fall this year.

Thanks and appreciate your positive recap and feedback on what was one of our better, albeit very impromptu, shows. Coach Cat really made it extra special given how candid and informative he was regarding the NCAA, among other things.

The quote I used is from Albert Einstein (a smart guy, or so I've heard): "I'd rather be optimistic and a fool than a pessimist and right."

Just don't try that with your banker  ;D
It won't go over as well as you might hope it would.  8-)

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53379 on: July 16, 2020, 02:04:43 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots.

Yea I imagine they will adjust that down as needed.  Won’t be as many East teams apparently and the pool a should get thrown out the window.  I was kinda joking about home and home in a previous post but it might make more sense now.  The E8 making that decision really throws a wrench into things though, and I’m trying to figure out the thought process from what the Nescac/LL does compared to the E8 in terms of simply letting schools decide on their own.  Doesn’t make sense to me to do that at the d3 level where shared money isn’t an issue.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 02:06:57 pm by Jonny Utah »

Offline wally_wabash

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53380 on: July 16, 2020, 02:15:02 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots.
Yea I imagine they will adjust that down as needed.  Won’t be as many East teams apparently and the pool a should get thrown out the window.  I was kinda joking about home and home in a previous post but it might make more sense now.  The E8 making that decision really throws a wrench into things though, and I’m trying to figure out the thought process from what the Nescac/LL does compared to the E8 in terms of simply letting schools decide on their own.  Doesn’t make sense to me to do that at the d3 level where shared money isn’t an issue.

Per my tally, 35 of 76 East region institutions have opted out of fall athletics.  So yes, finding available opponents, particularly out of one's conference, in the East region is rapidly becoming difficult. 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 02:30:34 pm by wally_wabash »
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Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53381 on: July 16, 2020, 02:23:00 pm »
I think finding opponents won’t be impossible if it stays the way it is now (it probably won’t), but the cost of testing and overnight trips might be an issue for some schools budgets.  Ithaca is more than a day bus trip to pretty much every East school except for a few at this point.  Springfield was an overnight trip when I was at IC and so was Buffalo state and St. Lawrence.  Wilkes is probably a day trip and so is Lycoming I’m assuming if they are looking around. 

Offline Pat Coleman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53382 on: July 16, 2020, 02:24:34 pm »
The MAC is conference-only this fall. That's the big issue is that most of the conferences which have not called things off have said they are only playing conference games.
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Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53383 on: July 16, 2020, 02:26:46 pm »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Well I had a whole response written out with statistics, risk, etc.  However, I will just say I disagree with you.  Not that it matters, with nobody left to play, there is no reason to fight.  Hopefully the Spring somehow becomes available, or this year's Hobart senior class all decides to come back in 2021.  This was Hobart's year, would have run the table in the LL.

It's fine to disagree, and I get it, I truly do. These are all tough decisions and they certainly aren't made in a vacuum either, and no one truly knows what the 'right' decision is because we don't have the old crystal ball to look into. You would know quickly if you made the wrong decision though. I already know and get all the statistics, but the data and how it translates and how it's understood/misunderstood varies depending on who you talk to or listen to and who/what you choose to believe(and when), but also believing whatever fits into your own narrative. I'm a little bit more conservative when it comes to the health of myself and my family and friends and i'd rather err on the side of caution on this stuff. It's not fear, or however half the population wants to classify it, it's just caution. I think we're just being smart about it.

With college sports, just throwing the close contact of sports out the window, you're taking these kids from far and wide and bringing them together(if school campuses open) and no one truly knows what that is going to look like and what challenges having in-person schooling is going to present on it's own. Athletics make that all the more fuzzy expanding contact and risk across other campuses, populations, demographics, etc etc. Decisions have to be made now or it becomes an even uglier situation if you're 2-3 weeks into a season and things take a bad turn. So I don't know. It's hard, it's sad, it's just sh!tty all around. No one wants any of this, but we're in it. We haven't dealt with anything quite like this before and have to think of all of the angles when making tough decisions. I think it's the safest decision at the very least.

Online jknezek

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53384 on: July 16, 2020, 02:35:55 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots.

Yea I imagine they will adjust that down as needed.  Won’t be as many East teams apparently and the pool a should get thrown out the window.  I was kinda joking about home and home in a previous post but it might make more sense now.  The E8 making that decision really throws a wrench into things though, and I’m trying to figure out the thought process from what the Nescac/LL does compared to the E8 in terms of simply letting schools decide on their own.  Doesn’t make sense to me to do that at the d3 level where shared money isn’t an issue.

Crazy that the East region has had so many teams bail, even though our "Virus Peak" was months ago.  NY/MA/PA have been doing very well regarding number of new cases per 100,000

Yes. And they don't want that to change. The South and Midwest had real low numbers in May and early June as well....  oops....