Author Topic: FB: Liberty League  (Read 4613639 times)

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53385 on: July 16, 2020, 02:43:07 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots.

Yea I imagine they will adjust that down as needed.  Won’t be as many East teams apparently and the pool a should get thrown out the window.  I was kinda joking about home and home in a previous post but it might make more sense now.  The E8 making that decision really throws a wrench into things though, and I’m trying to figure out the thought process from what the Nescac/LL does compared to the E8 in terms of simply letting schools decide on their own.  Doesn’t make sense to me to do that at the d3 level where shared money isn’t an issue.

Crazy that the East region has had so many teams bail, even though our "Virus Peak" was months ago.  NY/MA/PA have been doing very well regarding number of new cases per 100,000

Yes. And they don't want that to change. The South and Midwest had real low numbers in May and early June as well....  oops....

But, they never saw the peaks that we had here in PA/NY

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53386 on: July 16, 2020, 02:49:28 pm »
The MAC is conference-only this fall. That's the big issue is that most of the conferences which have not called things off have said they are only playing conference games.

Ah forgot about that in this context.  I assume it means they will still go to the NCAA playoffs.

Offline Jonny Utah

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53387 on: July 16, 2020, 02:52:37 pm »
- how much longer can the NCAA have a season of teams keep dropping out.  Seems like 32 playoff teams is still very viable even if up to a certain % of d3 teams drop out, but at what number do we have to think about just canceling the whole thing?

I believe we are now under the threshold for 32 teams if the NCAA continues to use a 6.5:1 access ratio for postseason slots.

Yea I imagine they will adjust that down as needed.  Won’t be as many East teams apparently and the pool a should get thrown out the window.  I was kinda joking about home and home in a previous post but it might make more sense now.  The E8 making that decision really throws a wrench into things though, and I’m trying to figure out the thought process from what the Nescac/LL does compared to the E8 in terms of simply letting schools decide on their own.  Doesn’t make sense to me to do that at the d3 level where shared money isn’t an issue.

Crazy that the East region has had so many teams bail, even though our "Virus Peak" was months ago.  NY/MA/PA have been doing very well regarding number of new cases per 100,000

Yes. And they don't want that to change. The South and Midwest had real low numbers in May and early June as well....  oops....

But, they never saw the peaks that we had here in PA/NY

After listening to the ITH podcast with Coach Catanzaro, he addresses some things that might put the issue into perspective.  It is going to cost teams money to test every week, and he mentioned a 7K a week for just football.  Because of Title 9 issues, if you have football, you have everyone else, and that is more money.  Through in the possibility that you might not be able to test if you are in an area that may see a spike and tests aren't going to be used on healthy football players twice a week, then you might run into more issues. 

Again, still early on this but there were some good insights from Coach C. on that ITH show from last night.

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53388 on: July 16, 2020, 04:54:25 pm »
Empire 8 and Union must’ve just followed RPI‘S lead. Tee hee.

But in all seriousness, this sucks for everyone. The coaches, the players, the fans. However, this is the only decision in my mind. Losing 1 student-athlete to this is too many if it can be avoided. There’s still a lot to learn and there is still a lot of uncertainty, but it’s the only decision right now. You can go down a worm hole of thinking out all of the ‘what-ifs’ teased out on both sides of the argument, but it just takes 1 bad outcome that will make everyone think ‘Maybe playing this year was a bad idea’ and could cripple the sport and NCAA for a long time. D1 might have the resources to pull something off, but I doubt we’ll see any college football this year.

It’s going to all make next season, and mostly everything in life that we normally take for granted, that much better when we are on the other side of it all.

Well I had a whole response written out with statistics, risk, etc.  However, I will just say I disagree with you.  Not that it matters, with nobody left to play, there is no reason to fight.  Hopefully the Spring somehow becomes available, or this year's Hobart senior class all decides to come back in 2021.  This was Hobart's year, would have run the table in the LL.

Oline................did you see that the D-II PSAC has shut everything down until January 1? With 16 schools in PA and many that are close to MAC schools, I wonder what the fate of the MAC is as it comes to playing anything this Fall?

More going on with the PSAC than is being reported.  I am sure it is financial, state will not pay for that many tests.  I have also heard that every school is going to Online learning only, perhaps because the very strong PA state teachers union is refusing to teach in person

I've heard the ugly details from a few head coach buddies of mine who were previously head coaches in the MAC. They knew this was coming. What a mess!!

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53389 on: July 16, 2020, 05:41:28 pm »
Given the current situation, only 5 LL teams left and no E8 competition.  Is it possible that the LL plays only 4-5 games in 2020, (less than 50% of the original schedule), so the current seniors would be eligible to return for a 5th year next year?

Offline NED3Guy

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53390 on: July 16, 2020, 06:29:28 pm »
I believe that in theory you are correct.

Those teams who have not yet canceled their seasons, could start play on September 26th (as directed by the league) play 4 games this fall; and nobody would lose the year of eligibility.

What I think is interesting about all this, is that while most of us think about the seniors getting to play out their last year; the NCAA is giving the extra year to everybody....a freshman this fall can practice all season, play in 4 games, and then get four full years in after this. The extra developmental time and reps that the young guys get at the few schools who decide to go this route, could be hugely beneficial over the course of the next few years.

Offline Oline89

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53391 on: July 16, 2020, 07:06:15 pm »
I believe that in theory you are correct.

Those teams who have not yet canceled their seasons, could start play on September 26th (as directed by the league) play 4 games this fall; and nobody would lose the year of eligibility.

What I think is interesting about all this, is that while most of us think about the seniors getting to play out their last year; the NCAA is giving the extra year to everybody....a freshman this fall can practice all season, play in 4 games, and then get four full years in after this. The extra developmental time and reps that the young guys get at the few schools who decide to go this route, could be hugely beneficial over the course of the next few years.

And playing this fall (limited games), and full season next year, has got to safer than playing full spring followed by full fall

Offline Bartman

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53392 on: July 16, 2020, 10:04:17 pm »
I believe that in theory you are correct.

Those teams who have not yet canceled their seasons, could start play on September 26th (as directed by the league) play 4 games this fall; and nobody would lose the year of eligibility.

What I think is interesting about all this, is that while most of us think about the seniors getting to play out their last year; the NCAA is giving the extra year to everybody....a freshman this fall can practice all season, play in 4 games, and then get four full years in after this. The extra developmental time and reps that the young guys get at the few schools who decide to go this route, could be hugely beneficial over the course of the next few years.

And playing this fall (limited games), and full season next year, has got to safer than playing full spring followed by full fall
So, PA is planning on playing HS Football and LL has a likely 4 game schedule if they play at all?  I think 21 of the Street &Smith top 25 in D3 are still alive . I wish everyone the best in whatever choice they make and if you’re at risk please mitigate appropriately, but if I were  playing age again I’d love to kick Covid in the ass🤬
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Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53393 on: July 17, 2020, 08:53:08 am »
I believe that in theory you are correct.

Those teams who have not yet canceled their seasons, could start play on September 26th (as directed by the league) play 4 games this fall; and nobody would lose the year of eligibility.

What I think is interesting about all this, is that while most of us think about the seniors getting to play out their last year; the NCAA is giving the extra year to everybody....a freshman this fall can practice all season, play in 4 games, and then get four full years in after this. The extra developmental time and reps that the young guys get at the few schools who decide to go this route, could be hugely beneficial over the course of the next few years.

You could also look at that as the "$125,000 question"................between the expenses of that 5th year (unless it's to obtain a masters in a 4+1 program) AND the delaying of a first year, let's say, $80,000 compensation package at work.

I know many parents, given that we are talking D-III football (which I love with all of my heart), that would say to Johnnie, "no bleeping way"!! There should be some VERY interesting conversations occurring in a ton of households in the past few and next couple of weeks.

Maybe they are banking on a certain somebody forgiving college debt. Hmmmmmmm ;)

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53394 on: July 17, 2020, 09:19:21 am »
Or maybe they can try and get a co-op or internship for a full semester, make a little $$$, and not have to pay the tuition for that semester. Many players at RPI used to do this if there was a redshirt year of eligibility due to injury or what not. Paying for an extra semester you don’t need is silly, but there are ways around it. And making bank during that time is pretty darn nice too. Pays a lot better than the work study jobs mopping gym floors. Not bad on the resume either.

Offline PBR...

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53395 on: July 17, 2020, 09:55:32 am »
At this point if I am head of schools/AD(smaller schools not D-1) I am waiting on the fall to make a final decision and trying to play this fall if possible. With the numerous vaccines in final phase 3 trials and looking to be approved/distributed in October (possibly end of Sept) if I can get some kind of fall sports season in great. If not we lose a fall sports to match winter/spring sports. Vaccines work like they are in trials by end of year there should be a drop off in new cases. Winter sports maybe a 2nd half ramp up and spring sports play as scheduled as their should really be a large drop off. This way fall sports team and especially football teams don't have to worry about playing in spring of 2021 and turning around and playing a normal schedule in fall of 2021. Bit of a gamble no doubt assuming the vaccines will work as projected and on a timeline. But assuming they do it would make this a one off year for sports and back to normal in late winter for winter sports and spring sports about normal with fall sports in 2021 back to normal. Just thinking out loud... to minimize rescheduling and getting things back to normal
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 09:58:22 am by PBR... »

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53396 on: July 17, 2020, 11:32:47 am »
Or maybe they can try and get a co-op or internship for a full semester, make a little $$$, and not have to pay the tuition for that semester. Many players at RPI used to do this if there was a redshirt year of eligibility due to injury or what not. Paying for an extra semester you don’t need is silly, but there are ways around it. And making bank during that time is pretty darn nice too. Pays a lot better than the work study jobs mopping gym floors. Not bad on the resume either.

I agree Mach, but I also sense that we are heading into a worse place from an employment/unemployment standpoint given the numbers................and this vaccine hocus pocus is fine and dandy, but it's the therapeutic, the "take two of these, three times a day, for two weeks" fix that we really need. Many will not get vaccinated.......as they don't with the flu now. Of those that do, it will help some and make a no difference to others as it truly is a guessing game about strains.

I have clients who make significant decisions within large and mid-sized companies and they are sanguine about the economy and job prospects for many, for at least the next 18 - 24 months. Small businesses are and will continue to take it on the chin at the margin.

I'm hoping and praying for the best, while I prepare personally and professionally for the worst. The worst actually helps me significantly professionally........but it is the last thing that I want to see!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 03:38:01 pm by jmcozenlaw »

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53397 on: July 17, 2020, 11:38:40 am »
At this point if I am head of schools/AD(smaller schools not D-1) I am waiting on the fall to make a final decision and trying to play this fall if possible. With the numerous vaccines in final phase 3 trials and looking to be approved/distributed in October (possibly end of Sept) if I can get some kind of fall sports season in great. If not we lose a fall sports to match winter/spring sports. Vaccines work like they are in trials by end of year there should be a drop off in new cases. Winter sports maybe a 2nd half ramp up and spring sports play as scheduled as their should really be a large drop off. This way fall sports team and especially football teams don't have to worry about playing in spring of 2021 and turning around and playing a normal schedule in fall of 2021. Bit of a gamble no doubt assuming the vaccines will work as projected and on a timeline. But assuming they do it would make this a one off year for sports and back to normal in late winter for winter sports and spring sports about normal with fall sports in 2021 back to normal. Just thinking out loud... to minimize rescheduling and getting things back to normal

PBR, football is my #1 and basketball is a close #2, but to fair across the board, the spring sports MUST come first as they were the affected teams a few months ago. I know that basketball lost part of the championship BUT they did play all 25 plus conference tournaments. The majority of schools played a full season given the small number that make it to the NCAA Tournament.

If we lose the fall and winter, but are good to go come spring (which I have my hopes.......but doubts), it will mean that every team lost a season. We must do everything possible to make sure that the student athletes in the spring sports do not lose a second season, nor take part in a watered down season (if schools shove the fall and winter into spring and training staffs and SID's are stretched impossibly thin).

Sophie's Choice. :(

Offline PBR...

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53398 on: July 17, 2020, 03:05:52 pm »
At this point if I am head of schools/AD(smaller schools not D-1) I am waiting on the fall to make a final decision and trying to play this fall if possible. With the numerous vaccines in final phase 3 trials and looking to be approved/distributed in October (possibly end of Sept) if I can get some kind of fall sports season in great. If not we lose a fall sports to match winter/spring sports. Vaccines work like they are in trials by end of year there should be a drop off in new cases. Winter sports maybe a 2nd half ramp up and spring sports play as scheduled as their should really be a large drop off. This way fall sports team and especially football teams don't have to worry about playing in spring of 2021 and turning around and playing a normal schedule in fall of 2021. Bit of a gamble no doubt assuming the vaccines will work as projected and on a timeline. But assuming they do it would make this a one off year for sports and back to normal in late winter for winter sports and spring sports about normal with fall sports in 2021 back to normal. Just thinking out loud... to minimize rescheduling and getting things back to normal


PBR, football is my #1 and basketball is a close #2, but to fair across the board, the spring sports MUST come first as they were the affected teams a few months ago. I know that basketball lost part of the championship BUT they did play all 25 plus conference tournaments. The majority of schools played a full season given the small number that make it to the NCAA Tournament.

If we lose the fall and winter, but are good to go come spring (which I have my hopes.......but doubts), it will mean that every team lost a season. We must do everything possible to make sure that the student athletes in the spring sports do not lose a second season, nor take part in a watered down season (if schools shove the fall and winter into spring and training staffs and SID's are stretched impossibly thin).

Sophie's Choice. :(

Was just my thinking... albeit I took a lot of words to get it there... 1 season lost for all sports and eliminate a bunch of scheduling in the spring for football and go back to normal seasons for all sports.

Offline NED3Guy

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Re: FB: Liberty League
« Reply #53399 on: July 17, 2020, 10:51:12 pm »
I believe that in theory you are correct.

Those teams who have not yet canceled their seasons, could start play on September 26th (as directed by the league) play 4 games this fall; and nobody would lose the year of eligibility.

What I think is interesting about all this, is that while most of us think about the seniors getting to play out their last year; the NCAA is giving the extra year to everybody....a freshman this fall can practice all season, play in 4 games, and then get four full years in after this. The extra developmental time and reps that the young guys get at the few schools who decide to go this route, could be hugely beneficial over the course of the next few years.

You could also look at that as the "$125,000 question"................between the expenses of that 5th year (unless it's to obtain a masters in a 4+1 program) AND the delaying of a first year, let's say, $80,000 compensation package at work.

I know many parents, given that we are talking D-III football (which I love with all of my heart), that would say to Johnnie, "no bleeping way"!! There should be some VERY interesting conversations occurring in a ton of households in the past few and next couple of weeks.

Maybe they are banking on a certain somebody forgiving college debt. Hmmmmmmm ;)

The thought I had was that any fall athlete trying to capitalize on the 5th season would simply take a spring semester off between now and their 5th fall. So they’re still only an 8 semester tuition payer, but they’re breaking that up as 5 falls and 3 springs.
I guess some could do grad school or 4+1 / 3+2 plans; but I could see a lot of guys thinking about taking a semester off.