Author Topic: World Cup and European leagues  (Read 374073 times)

Offline David Collinge

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2006, 05:10:42 pm »
five teams that didn't even make the field are ranked higher than the seeded Germans.

Doesn't matter how the German's are ranked - being the host country they get put into the mix automatically -they could be ranked last in the world and then a lot of teams ranked higher wouldn't make the field.

[I've rearranged the quote box to more accurately reflect who said what}

The host country automatically qualifies for the finals, a rule in place since France '38, but they are not automatically one of the 8 seeds.  The Germans were selected as one of the 8 seeds based on their performance in past World Cups and their performance over the past three years.  According to that ranking system, the Germans were the #4 team in the world and therefore a seed. 

In other words, one FIFA ranking says Germany is #4, and another FIFA ranking says they are #19.  Hmmmm.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2006, 05:16:50 pm by David Collinge »

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2006, 05:29:41 pm »
Maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but Ghana may have gotten royally screwed against Italy.  In c.75th minute, a Ghanaian striker was tripped in the box, but there was no call - at that point, a PK would have tied the game.  If the score was 1-1 rather than 1-0 in the final minutes, who knows whether Italy would have gotten that second goal that iced the game?  Of course, with the accuracy Ghana showed on shots today, the PK would not be guaranteed!

IF the real USA shows up, I believe they can beat both Italy and Ghana, but if they play like today, they may go 0-3.

HF, since the Czechs and Italians each already have 3 points, I don't think 4 points will be enough to advance (esp. since goal-differential is the tie-break, and we are already -3, while they are +3 and +2, respectively).  I think we HAVE to win both, and even 6 points MAY not be enough if the Czechs beat Ghana (as I expect they will).

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2006, 05:55:56 pm »
Maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but Ghana may have gotten royally screwed against Italy.  In c.75th minute, a Ghanaian striker was tripped in the box, but there was no call - at that point, a PK would have tied the game.  If the score was 1-1 rather than 1-0 in the final minutes, who knows whether Italy would have gotten that second goal that iced the game?  Of course, with the accuracy Ghana showed on shots today, the PK would not be guaranteed!

IF the real USA shows up, I believe they can beat both Italy and Ghana, but if they play like today, they may go 0-3.

HF, since the Czechs and Italians each already have 3 points, I don't think 4 points will be enough to advance (esp. since goal-differential is the tie-break, and we are already -3, while they are +3 and +2, respectively).  I think we HAVE to win both, and even 6 points MAY not be enough if the Czechs beat Ghana (as I expect they will).
I agree with Mr Ypsi! I did not see the uncalled foul, but down 3 in the goal differential is too deep of a hole.

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2006, 06:24:27 pm »
HF, since the Czechs and Italians each already have 3 points, I don't think 4 points will be enough to advance (esp. since goal-differential is the tie-break, and we are already -3, while they are +3 and +2, respectively).  I think we HAVE to win both, and even 6 points MAY not be enough if the Czechs beat Ghana (as I expect they will).

Czech Republic will probably go undefeated in the Group, which means the best any other team in the group can do is 6 points. So if we beat Italy, then htey will only end up with 3 points. If we beat Ghana, that means Ghana would end up with 0 points. That owquld give CR 9 points, US 6, Italy 3, and Ghana 3. US could still certainly make it in, but if we don't beat Italy we might as well be mathematically eliminated.

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2006, 06:31:24 pm »
I suspect you'll get lots of chances to see the no-call (unless they dismiss it as irrelevant since Italy won by 2 - but, like I said, both teams strategies change if the game is 1-1 rather than 1-0 for the last 15 minutes).

There was another no-call barely a minute later - the Ghanaian WITH THE BALL was clearly shoved to the ground by an Italian player.  Away from the ball, I can understand missing such a clear yellow-card foul, but when the guy has the ball??!!

The stats will show that Ghana committed more than twice as many fouls as Italy, but if the officiating of the rest of the game was like the 25 minutes I was able to see, that may be a highly misleading statistic.

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2006, 06:44:10 pm »
Scottie (>),

With Koller looking like he may be out for at least the first round (he was clearly in tremendous pain and grabbing his hamstring), I was premising my worst case scenario on Italy beating the Czechs, but everyone beating Ghana.  If that were to happen, USA, Italy and the Czech Republic would all tie at 6 points, and we've got a lot of catching up on the goal differential.

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2006, 06:49:32 pm »
Scottie (>),

With Koller looking like he may be out for at least the first round (he was clearly in tremendous pain and grabbing his hamstring), I was premising my worst case scenario on Italy beating the Czechs, but everyone beating Ghana.  If that were to happen, USA, Italy and the Czech Republic would all tie at 6 points, and we've got a lot of catching up on the goal differential.

One name for you, ROSICKY! He's a beast, tehre's a reason I had him on my fantasy team!  They are stacked on offense, they had 4 players (5 with Koller) that had 3 goals or more in qualifying. Of course the US didn't play well at all, but look how good CZ was on offense AFTER Koller went down.  Koller will be missed, but they are superior to Italy!

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2006, 07:21:04 pm »
>,

Your scenario is certainly plausible (and the only way for the US to advance if they do only tie Italy).  USA better come prepared to BLAST Ghana, or else the ref's screwing of Ghana becomes a screwing of our team too!

I just wanted to explore the worst case scenario - USA COULD win 2 and still be 3-and-out.  Due to the American lethargy for all but 10 minutes, the Czechs may not be as good as they looked today.  There may be a reason that Italy was the seeded team in group E.

Offline cawcdad

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2006, 08:04:28 pm »
There was some questionalble officiating today. The two calls Mr. Ypsi mentioned, and two others in the Japan - Australia match. With Japan's first goal, a Japanese player clearly pushed the Australian goalie while making no attempt for the ball and the ball went into the net. Then with Japan down 2 - 1, an Australian defender took out a Japanese forward in the box. It should have been a PK.

If the U.S. wins out and advances, the reward is probably playing Brazil!

Offline Jim Matson

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2006, 02:37:04 am »
I thought his name was Rasicky?!  Either way you spell it, the guy made us look bad.  His first goal was absolutely beautiful!
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Offline ScotsFan

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2006, 08:55:20 am »
The US isn't done by any means just yet.  I was hoping for a draw between Italy and Ghana and when that player from Ghana went down in the box, I thought there might be a chance, but the terribly one sided officiating prevented that from happening.  Now the best the US can hope for is that the CR plays as well against Italy as they did yesterday against the US.  Oh, and beating Italy as well is pretty much in the cards for the US to have any chance. 

When the draw was made and the US drew this group, I thought from the start that they would have trouble coming out of it.  One thing going in their favor IMO is that they played the best team in their group yesterday.  In their World Cup warm-ups the US came out flat against Morrocco and then came back and played a much more complete match vs. Venezuela.  I know Italy is no Venezuela, but I also know that the US is much more capable of putting up better results than they did yesterday.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2006, 09:03:04 am »

With Arena calling out players by name at the press conference, I think there is plenty of motivation.  I expect O'Brien and Eddie Johnson to start on Saturday and should certainly help maintain some semblence of control.  We need to get back to our 4-4-2 and Donovan and Beasley need to show up.  Those two were the only World Cup vetrans to not show up.  I can understand Oguchi playing scared the first twenty minutes or so, but we need the best players to step up.  Italy certainly isn't as good as their reputation makes them, so I've got confidence.  I wish I could find a way out of work to see how Brazil is playing today.

If the Czechs can keep up the level of play they displayed, they might even give Brazil a run for their money at some point.

S Korea - Togo
France - Switzerland
Brazil - Croatia

Should be a good day.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2006, 09:04:17 am »
Well, after finally watching the USA/Czech game, it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be considering how Arena ripped the players and what the score was and all that.

That being said, I wasn't surprised to see the US lose.  We are talking about the Czechs here, ranked only below Brazil, though the "rankings" are a joke anyway.  

I'll agree that Beasley looked horrible on the right side, maybe switching him to the left will help.  It was obviously a mistake to keep Eddie Johnson on the bench to start the game.  Donovan needs to be in the midfield and not as a withdrawn forward.

The subs looked good and look for wholesale changes for Saturday's big game vs. Italy.

Eddie Johnson and McBride up front
Reyna, Donovan, O'Brien, Beasley (on the left) and probably either Convey or Ben Olsen or even Clint Demsey in the middle.
Eddie Lewis, Eddie Pope and Onyewu in defense
Keller in goal

3 defenders?  The US has to beat Italy, so it doesn't matter if they give up one or 20.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 09:09:45 am by Old School »
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2006, 09:07:40 am »

You can't play three defenders against a team whose only strength is scoring goals.  Is there any decent team that plays something other than four?  It just makes sense.

I agree that we need our midfielders to actually play together and agressively.

It is, however, very good to see Reyna on such good form and taking shots on goal.  He hasn't looked this good in years.  If only we can get our wings to show up, I'm still optimistic.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2006, 09:18:35 am »

You can't play three defenders against a team whose only strength is scoring goals. 

Actually, I thought Italy's strength was defense.  It seems like every game they play, they win 1-0 or like yesterday, 2-0.  I looked up their qualifying record and they did score 17 goals in 10 matches, but 8 of those were against Belarus...something 11 posters here could probably do.  I've always felt they've had the offense to do well, but they never played to their potential. 

Goal differential will be a huge factor.  If the Czechs beat Ghana, look for them to rest many of their players vs. Italy in the last group game, which means disadvantage to the US. 
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