Author Topic: World Cup and European leagues  (Read 410889 times)

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World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #525 on: July 11, 2006, 12:38:17 pm »
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #526 on: July 11, 2006, 12:52:36 pm »

Yeah, for offsides that makes a ton of sense, but for things like fouls, cards, diving, etc I'm not so sure how well it would work.

Example:  Player A (carrying a yellow card from the first half) makes a blatant dive near, but not in the box in the 67th minute.  A foul is called and play continues as the fourth official reviews the play on the monitor.  In the 68th minute, Player A scores a goal on a header from a corner kick.  In the 69th minute the fourth official decides that the dive was eggregious enough to deserve a yellow card and thus a red card.  What happens to the goal?

Granted, I think it is a fine idea for offsides, so long as they have a specific amount of time to decide (90 seconds maybe).  Any longer than that and not knowing whether your goal counts or not changes strategy quite a bit.
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Offline Hoosier Titan

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #527 on: July 11, 2006, 01:54:47 pm »
Yes, I think you're right, it would be very tricky.  Probably that's why so little progress has been made to date.  This was just one of the few suggestions I'd seen that did seem to make some sense.

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foul_language

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #528 on: July 11, 2006, 02:36:28 pm »
Quote
In soccer, you go down hard, you might get the call, you might not, but the dive doesn't cost your team anything

Actually, it could. While the actor is flopping around on the ground, his team is effectively playing a player short. I think opposing teams should really take advantage of that and drive to the net. Assuming the flop doesn't convince the ref, the down player has to hustle his butt to get back into the action.

20+ years ago, the coach would yell at kids who liked to slide tackle all the time, telling them they were taking themselves out of the play if they didn't actually get the ball. Most of them weren't that proficient, so that's about all they accomplished: giving the other team a one-player advantage until he or she scrambled to his or her feet and got back into the game.

Granted, professionals are better at slide tackles, but diving ends up affecting teams about the same way missed slide tackles do.

Offline Hoosier Titan

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #529 on: July 11, 2006, 03:35:32 pm »

... While the actor is flopping around on the ground, his team is effectively playing a player short. I think opposing teams should really take advantage of that and drive to the net....

And this is where soccer could be in danger of losing that nice sportmanship touch, where the team with the ball kicks it out (even if the team with a man advantage has it), and then the team with the "injured" player gives it back once the player is up.  It only works if both teams do their best to stay on their feet.

One of the big brouhahas (I think it was Deco's second yellow card) in the Portugal-Holland game followed Holland's not kicking it out when a Portugal player went down.  I think it's why Fifa are so keen to address the issue of diving.
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Offline Hoosier Titan

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #530 on: July 11, 2006, 03:37:49 pm »
Oops--I meant "side," not "team" in the previous post.  Gotta keep my terminology straight. :)

Was anyone else surprised that Portugal was named "most entertaining" side in the Cup?
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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #531 on: July 11, 2006, 03:58:12 pm »
This issue of correct terminology is interesting. Is it 'pitch' and 'side' and 'boots' in all languages or only in the queen's English? If we're going with correct terminology, we'd best be figuring out where the game originated and use that language. Right? I hope it didn't originate in Wales...

One website suggests it originated in China some 3,000 years ago. I wondered what they played on.

I guess I'm wondering why British terminology trumps all other terminology?

Asking out of ignorance not contrariness.

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #532 on: July 11, 2006, 04:28:26 pm »
I only mentioned it yesterday to help differentiate two seperate awards.   :)

Strictly from a "Queen's English" perspective, my English friend has always referred to the trunk of his car as "the boot", so who knows!?!?!?!?   8)
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #533 on: July 11, 2006, 04:45:57 pm »

OK then.  I've been americanizing my terminology for this board since post people use "soccer," but now that we have a dedicated board, I'm done with it.


It's football, we've got footballers playing on a side atop the pitch wearing boots and kits.
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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #534 on: July 11, 2006, 04:48:05 pm »
I hate the term 'nil' >:(. What is a 'nil', anyway? Some tense of 'null'? Future plu-perfect? I can live with 'pitch' and 'boots' and 'side.' 'Nil' is just plain pretentious. 'Boot' could be confusing if you're talking about putting someone into it; it would make a difference in court if you were talking about shoes rather than the trunk of the car.

Did I spell 'pretentious' right?

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #535 on: July 11, 2006, 04:55:06 pm »
Does anyone else find it odd the way Matterazzi went down like a stone from the headbutt?

I'll have to totally disagree with this.  This wasn't any love tap of a head butt.  This was a full fledged "near head start run" head butt square into the chest of the player.  If anything, I'd go down like a stone simply because I got the wind knocked out of me.  And, as we can all see, Zidane's head isn't small.

I'll have to find a replay of it again, but I don't actually remember Matarazzi actually "backing down/away" from Zidane.  

I think what the insult was will always be speculation.  I don't think Zidane will ever say exactly what it was and Matarazzi won't ever admit exactly what he said.  For my money, there's only one thing that would make me "throw down".  

Was anyone else surprised that Portugal was named "most entertaining" side in the Cup?

Like the reporters on FSC World Report, I was VERY surprised that Portugal was voted the most entertaining.  Of course, watching Ronaldo flop around like a fish might be entertaining to some...and those sweet step overs are entertaining the few times it happened.  I think the poll shows how disappointing Brazil was.


OK then. I've been americanizing my terminology for this board since post people use "soccer," but now that we have a dedicated board, I'm done with it.


It's football, we've got footballers playing on a side atop the pitch wearing boots and kits.

lol!  I think "a kit" and "strips" are the same thing.  ;D

I like Nil.  :P
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Offline Bilk

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Re: World Cup 2006
« Reply #536 on: July 11, 2006, 05:54:27 pm »
Does anyone else find it odd the way Matterazzi went down like a stone from the headbutt?


I'll have to totally disagree with this.  This wasn't any love tap of a head butt.  This was a full fledged "near head start run" head butt square into the chest of the player.  If anything, I'd go down like a stone simply because I got the wind knocked out of me.  And, as we can all see, Zidane's head isn't small.

I'll have to find a replay of it again, but I don't actually remember Matarazzi actually "backing down/away" from Zidane.   


Fair enough. 

It's very possible that Matarazzi had no idea what was coming and was not ready for it.  In America, the charge is usually followed with blows . . . maybe that's rare in Euroville . . . they're all bark and no bite.

Matarazzi certainly didn't go after Zidane.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 12:26:41 am by Bilk »

Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #537 on: July 11, 2006, 07:15:46 pm »
Fair enough. 

It's very possible that Matarazzi had no idea what was coming and was not ready for it.  In America, the charge is usually followed with blows . . . maybe that's rare in Euroville . . . they're all bark and no bite.

I think the biggest difference between soccer and any other sport like baseball, football, basketball, hockey etc, is that if one player is ejected, that team is allowed to replace that player.  If Matarazzi retaliates, or any other player comes in and puts a wheel house to Zidane, they get ejected and Italy plays with 10, 9 or even 8 players, if a brawl ensues. 

Zidane headbutts, gets red carded...advantage Italy. 

Obviously in baseball, if someone throws at some else or looks at someone else in a bad way, you're basically obligated to join in the brawl...same with hockey and even basketball. 

There would be a lot more fights/retaliations in soccer if a coach sends out a goon to "send a message" with the knowledge that he can be replaced with another player.

How would American sports handle it if a brawl insues in baseball and then they can only play with 2 outfielders and 3 infielders because the centerfielder and the 2nd baseman got ejected?  ??? ;D
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Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #538 on: July 11, 2006, 07:34:57 pm »
Not being able to replace a ejected player certainly would dramatically change baseball strategy, since (I would imagine) the pitcher is the most often ejected position!  (At which position, I wonder, would teams place their 'emergency' pitcher, since THAT position would now be empty?)

But I would guess it would drastically reduce the number of hit batters!

I don't think it could work very well in basketball - 10v11 is one thing, but at 4v5 you may as well just call a forfeit on the offending team!

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #539 on: July 11, 2006, 09:04:11 pm »
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