Author Topic: World Cup and European leagues  (Read 410893 times)

Offline Gotberg

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #570 on: July 18, 2006, 08:49:43 am »

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Considering Robben went out in the round 2 loss to The Netherlands, I would think he'd play.  He lost so much time last year due to injury, he needs to put himself back in Mourinho's radar.
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meant The Netherlands lost to Portugal
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #571 on: July 18, 2006, 08:55:54 am »


Ballack and Cole play different positions and Cole more than proved himself at the Cup.  He definately exceeded expectations.

I assume they'll go with Robben and Sheva up front, Lampard and Ballack in the middle with Joe Cole and Essein/Makelele (crazy that they have to choose between those two), with Terry, Gallas, Carvalho and Fererria in the back.


I expect you'll see replacements for Lampard, Ballack, Cole, Terry, Gallas and Carvalho (with Makelele also sitting) when they play MLS.
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Offline Gotberg

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #572 on: July 18, 2006, 11:19:03 pm »


Ballack and Cole play different positions and Cole more than proved himself at the Cup.  He definately exceeded expectations.

I assume they'll go with Robben and Sheva up front, Lampard and Ballack in the middle with Joe Cole and Essein/Makelele (crazy that they have to choose between those two), with Terry, Gallas, Carvalho and Fererria in the back.


I expect you'll see replacements for Lampard, Ballack, Cole, Terry, Gallas and Carvalho (with Makelele also sitting) when they play MLS.

Personally, I think Cole had a very average W.C. considering he only a goal and an assist to his name.  Cole did lots of fancy dribbling, but he never did strike me as that dangerous in the final 1/3 of the field.  Just my opinion.  Of course, Sven's tactics with a single striker didn't help much.

I'm not sure what Mourinho's strategy will be for this coming year.  He typically plays with one formal striker (Drogba/Crespo) with attacking midfielders pushing up (Robben/Duff) and sometimes inserting a more formal second forward (Eidur Gudjohnsen (spelling?) but now with Barcelona).  Sheva brings a different element to the forward group, so will be interesting to see what he does...

The one thing that is for certain - the midfield has a lot of talent with limited spots:  http://www.chelseafc.com/article.asp?article=249900&Title=Squad&lid=Navigation+-+Players&sub=Squad&nav=&sublid=

Of course, there's rumors that Duff may be on his way out.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #573 on: July 19, 2006, 08:11:54 am »
Personally, I think Cole had a very average W.C. considering he only a goal and an assist to his name.  Cole did lots of fancy dribbling, but he never did strike me as that dangerous in the final 1/3 of the field.  Just my opinion.  Of course, Sven's tactics with a single striker didn't help much.

I thought Cole was impressive.  Everytime he got the ball, he looked dangerous, at least dangerous compared to any other English player in the W.C.  One goal and an assist is substantial considering how many goals England actually scored! lol.  Besides, I really thought his goal was one of the goals of the tourney. 

Can you name another English player that had a better tourney or looked more dangerous on the ball?  Hargraves had a very good tourney.

Just my opinion.  :D
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Offline Gotberg

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #574 on: July 19, 2006, 08:41:09 am »
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I thought Cole was impressive.  Everytime he got the ball, he looked dangerous, at least dangerous compared to any other English player in the W.C.  One goal and an assist is substantial considering how many goals England actually scored! lol.  Besides, I really thought his goal was one of the goals of the tourney. 

Can you name another English player that had a better tourney or looked more dangerous on the ball?  Hargraves had a very good tourney.

Just my opinion.  :D
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For some reason Cole just reminded me of Cobi Jones circa 1994.  Run hard/fast/dribble well, then not know what to do with the ball when it actually counts.  I don't think he played poor, but not that great either.  I agree that it was a great goal, but with any goal like that - there's an element of luck (goalkeeper positioning etc).  I saw that game at O'Hare waiting for my flight to head to the World Cup.  Was fun as there were lots of Brits watching the game with me that were also heading over....

I also agree that England played poor and Cole stood out in comparison to his midfield mates, but that's not saying much :)

Agreed, Hargreaves was probably the overall best player for England during the WC.  Too bad he ended up playing a lot at right back.
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Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #575 on: July 19, 2006, 09:02:32 am »


Yeah, Duff will be gone at Chelsea.  He's good, but probably not as intense as he would need to be to compete for regular playing time in that midfield.  Do you think Chelsea could be the first team ever to play 2-7-1 this season?


It pains me to hear any world class footballer compared to Cobi Jones (not that Cobi hasn't done his best).  Every England fan I know thought Cole was the top performer of the Cup for their squad (outside Hargreaves, but no one in England likes him enough to admit that).  He certainly played above expectations as did Crouch, in my opinion.
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Offline Hoosier Titan

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #576 on: July 19, 2006, 10:36:43 am »

It pains me to hear any world class footballer compared to Cobi Jones (not that Cobi hasn't done his best).  Every England fan I know thought Cole was the top performer of the Cup for their squad (outside Hargreaves, but no one in England likes him enough to admit that).  He certainly played above expectations as did Crouch, in my opinion.

I also think the comparison of Joe Cole to Cobi Jones is not a good one.  They are simply not in the same class, and that's not a meant to be a knock on Jones.  It's like comparing most DI and DIII players in any sport, and we here know all about that.  What I sometimes haven't liked about Cole in the past is a tendency to do beautiful footwork and then not finish.  But, as OS points out, hardly anyone finished for England in the WC and Cole produced a beauty.  I am not a Chelsea supporter, but I'd love to have him on my side.

To me, the biggest disappointment in the midfield was Frank Lampard.  One of the English press wrote that "the jounalists and cameramen learned when to duck--whenever Frank Lampard prepared to shoot."  His official number was 24 shots on goal, tying him with Maniche and Thierry Henry.  His teammate Steven Gerrard, however, had 2 goals in fewer than 10 shots (ESPNsoccernet's listing ends there).  And even Beckham, with his limitations, was able to score in his distinctive way.  But, I don't see a lot of Lampard and I'm willing to believe he had a bad run.  I just don't think it's fair to say that the English midfield were uniformly poor--there were definitely some who played better than others.  And the striker situation was a disaster, putting far more pressure on the midfield to score.

Crouch is not pretty, or usually very efficient, but he can score.  With the right lineup--usually 4-4-2, with the other striker small and quick, he gives defenses fits.

And, I think the biggest disappointment of all was Eriksson, who made all of the rest possible.

I just watched Fever Pitch again last night--can't wait for the EPL to start!  :)
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Offline Gotberg

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #577 on: July 19, 2006, 10:59:29 am »
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I also think the comparison of Joe Cole to Cobi Jones is not a good one.  They are simply not in the same class, and that's not a meant to be a knock on Jones.  It's like comparing most DI and DIII players in any sport, and we here know all about that.  What I sometimes haven't liked about Cole in the past is a tendency to do beautiful footwork and then not finish. 
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I don't remember every saying Cobi Jones' overall play was on par with Joe Cole.  All I intended to get across is that during the WC he seemed to dribble a lot without much production and it happened to remind me of Cobi Jones.  While you may not think this applied to the WC, you seem to agree in general by stating - "What I sometimes haven't liked about Cole in the past is a tendency to do beautiful footwork and then not finish."- I just happened to think it was the case during the WC. 

Although I don't think Joe Cole is 'World Class', without a doubt, I'd take him any day over Cobi Jones.
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #578 on: July 19, 2006, 11:08:30 am »

I think we all understood you weren't elevating Cobi Jones to a player of Cole's calibre, but their levels of ability are so far apart that even the comparison is out of whack.

No offense, but to me it sounded like saying "Adam Morrison sometimes reminds me of Keelan Amelianovich; they're both tall guys who shoot well."  It's not untrue, but there are probably about two dozen guys who would make the comparison better.
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Offline Hoosier Titan

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #579 on: July 19, 2006, 12:02:45 pm »
Gotberg, that clarifies things and it does sound like we more or less agree on Joe Cole. 

Hoops, good analogy to basketball. 
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Offline Gotberg

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2006, 12:47:00 pm »
No offense, but to me it sounded like saying "Adam Morrison sometimes reminds me of Keelan Amelianovich; they're both tall guys who shoot well."  It's not untrue, but there are probably about two dozen guys who would make the comparison better.

No offense taken - but I was just saying that Cole's 06 style of play reminded me of Jones' WC94 style - not quite the analogy above. Cole certainly did have better results (Goal/Assist).
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered. - George Best

Offline gobombers15

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #581 on: July 19, 2006, 10:15:47 pm »
All fair points. I hope they do bring a good squad. But past precedent of quality European sides tends to imply they might not.
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Offline Greek Tragedy

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #582 on: July 19, 2006, 10:18:13 pm »
Our lower league, the USL, all-stars tied Englands lower league team, Championship side Sheffield Wednesday, 0-0.  I just saw the final score on FSC.  Not that that means anything!

Until this board, I never heard of the football version of Fever Pitch...just that Jimmy Fallon/baseball/Red Sox one.  I'll have to see if I can dig that up on Netflix or something.

Brazil's coach, Pierrera stepped down today.  Anyone on the US National team speak Portugese?  :D

Though we weren't technically comparing Cole and Jones, Jones was a very valuable asset to the national team, as a starter and a sub.  When he subbed in, he was able to run, hustle and track back on defense.  He hustled more than anyone on the team at times.  
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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #583 on: July 19, 2006, 10:57:25 pm »
Cobi Jones was my older son's favorite player (at least until he got Brian McBride's cleats at the end of a Crew @ Fire game!) - lay off Cobi!  He wasn't world-class, but no one could ever fault his effort (unlike some USA stars).

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Re: World Cup and European leagues
« Reply #584 on: July 20, 2006, 02:17:16 pm »
I saw the original Fever Pitch shortly after it was released to the movie channels........good movie, nice story.

i didn't bother with the American version since I knew it would be a blatant ripoff of the original.



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