Author Topic: NJAC TALK  (Read 215863 times)

Offline phil

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1260 on: December 13, 2018, 01:38:44 am »
Ira, you’re right. Which is why I amended my comment in my previous post. My mistake to use NJCU as my example. As I said, Dave & Ryan called me on it and they (and you) were absolutely correct.

Offline CCHoopster

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1261 on: December 13, 2018, 11:10:51 am »
Ira, you’re right. Which is why I amended my comment in my previous post. My mistake to use NJCU as my example. As I said, Dave & Ryan called me on it and they (and you) were absolutely correct.

No matter how we got here,  there needs to be more humility shown like this in today’s world. Acknowledge mistake, move on. Rinse repeat. Now I definitely sound like a older man.

Offline jmcozenlaw

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1262 on: December 14, 2018, 08:54:04 pm »

The "worse academic institution" argument rings so hollow in my opinion. I've got several wealthy clients who did not go to "elite" academic institutions. In fact, three of them didn't even finish college (one is worth north of $210 million). Tiny little DelVal, in bucolic Doylestown, just posted the statistics from the 2016-2017 academic year regarding the first time pass rate for the CPA Exam. Of the 104 colleges and universities who offer an Accounting major/minor, DelVal was #5 in the PA with a 92.8% pass rate. They were above schools like Villanova, Temple, Pitt, Penn State, Moravian, Bucknell, Lehigh and others.

As my accountant (from the old Bloomsburg State University) always tells me, "a debit is a debit...................a credit is a credit. Whether you are learning it from a TA in a building with Ivy on it or in a state school, from a tenured professor, who actually worked in the business.................it's all the same".

Stop the "worse academic institution" nonsense. I went to Swarthmore and it has never impressed any of my clients. The return that I deliver on their investments each year is all that they care about. If I went to Whatsamatter U, I'd still be managing their risk capital. Because I'm good, not because I'm a Swatty. Now let me get back to my day job.................after starting the day with a killer triple leveraged short natural gas play (DGAZ) from Thursday. Cha ching!! ;)

Not everybody who fails to get a college degree winds up with a $210 million net worth. A credit is indeed a credit – and with some hard work a degree will give you a chance for success in your field of choice upon graduation. Usually it helps to graduate. Swarthmore 4-year grad rate = 89%. NJCU 4-year grad rate = 7%. If I were a parent, I'd definitely be questioning the wisdom of moving from Rowan to NJCU in order to play a sport you'll be leaving behind upon graduation. Now get that guy with the $210M in touch with Mr. Coleman!

Phil, I've respected you quite a bit over the years so I'm just going to assume you don't know the difference between your alma mater and others. The reason NJCU's 4-year graduation rate is 7% is because nearly every one of our students, whether they play a sport or not, needs to work. Work to pay for school entirely or partially. It's the real world. School isn't free and not everyone has a wealthy mom or dad to foot the bill.

I'd like to think I'm a pretty intelligent person. You see what I've done with my life...in college and pro sports and in politics. I went to William Paterson. I took me 5 1/2 years to graduate. Why? I was paying for school and rent entirely by myself and had to hold down a full-time job AND several part time jobs or I would not have finished school. So I counted against WP's 4-year graduation rate. If mom and dad were paying for school perhaps I could have finished in four years. But that wasn't the case.

NJCU has an excellent business school right on Exchange Place that is attracting students from all around the world, including a huge number of Chinese exchange students. Our criminal justice program is among the best in the country and the number of FBI agents and state police we turn out is pretty impressive. It's a way better education than we are given credit for. The recently retired VP of the NBA is one of our Hall of Famers. One of the top federal judges in this part of the country is a former football captain. Several of the top politicians in the state came out of our poli sci program.

So don't judge a school based on its 4-year graduation rate. It's a skewed number that some elitists in the media use that doesn't accurately paint a picture of what real life looks like. Real life has challenges. I'm living proof.

Beautifully stated Ira!!!!!

Offline TheOsprey

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1263 on: December 21, 2018, 08:05:48 am »
And now back to basketball.

Stockton gets a steal and a 3-ball with less than 30 secs. to defeat Bethany 69-65.  Plays tourney final vs Randolph today.

TCNJ gives up a 19 pts. first half lead and loses to #25 Scranton.
 
Scranton wins 82 - 79 with Mancuso in foul trouble most of second half.  Very impressed by the Royals as of late.

Offline Knightstalker

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1264 on: January 04, 2019, 12:10:48 pm »

The "worse academic institution" argument rings so hollow in my opinion. I've got several wealthy clients who did not go to "elite" academic institutions. In fact, three of them didn't even finish college (one is worth north of $210 million). Tiny little DelVal, in bucolic Doylestown, just posted the statistics from the 2016-2017 academic year regarding the first time pass rate for the CPA Exam. Of the 104 colleges and universities who offer an Accounting major/minor, DelVal was #5 in the PA with a 92.8% pass rate. They were above schools like Villanova, Temple, Pitt, Penn State, Moravian, Bucknell, Lehigh and others.

As my accountant (from the old Bloomsburg State University) always tells me, "a debit is a debit...................a credit is a credit. Whether you are learning it from a TA in a building with Ivy on it or in a state school, from a tenured professor, who actually worked in the business.................it's all the same".

Stop the "worse academic institution" nonsense. I went to Swarthmore and it has never impressed any of my clients. The return that I deliver on their investments each year is all that they care about. If I went to Whatsamatter U, I'd still be managing their risk capital. Because I'm good, not because I'm a Swatty. Now let me get back to my day job.................after starting the day with a killer triple leveraged short natural gas play (DGAZ) from Thursday. Cha ching!! ;)

Not everybody who fails to get a college degree winds up with a $210 million net worth. A credit is indeed a credit – and with some hard work a degree will give you a chance for success in your field of choice upon graduation. Usually it helps to graduate. Swarthmore 4-year grad rate = 89%. NJCU 4-year grad rate = 7%. If I were a parent, I'd definitely be questioning the wisdom of moving from Rowan to NJCU in order to play a sport you'll be leaving behind upon graduation. Now get that guy with the $210M in touch with Mr. Coleman!

Phil, I've respected you quite a bit over the years so I'm just going to assume you don't know the difference between your alma mater and others. The reason NJCU's 4-year graduation rate is 7% is because nearly every one of our students, whether they play a sport or not, needs to work. Work to pay for school entirely or partially. It's the real world. School isn't free and not everyone has a wealthy mom or dad to foot the bill.

I'd like to think I'm a pretty intelligent person. You see what I've done with my life...in college and pro sports and in politics. I went to William Paterson. I took me 5 1/2 years to graduate. Why? I was paying for school and rent entirely by myself and had to hold down a full-time job AND several part time jobs or I would not have finished school. So I counted against WP's 4-year graduation rate. If mom and dad were paying for school perhaps I could have finished in four years. But that wasn't the case.

NJCU has an excellent business school right on Exchange Place that is attracting students from all around the world, including a huge number of Chinese exchange students. Our criminal justice program is among the best in the country and the number of FBI agents and state police we turn out is pretty impressive. It's a way better education than we are given credit for. The recently retired VP of the NBA is one of our Hall of Famers. One of the top federal judges in this part of the country is a former football captain. Several of the top politicians in the state came out of our poli sci program.

So don't judge a school based on its 4-year graduation rate. It's a skewed number that some elitists in the media use that doesn't accurately paint a picture of what real life looks like. Real life has challenges. I'm living proof.

Not to mention the outstanding Music, Dance and Theater program that has produced many outstanding music teachers and performers.  One who was there while I was who is now Gloria Gaynors music director and keyboardist.  The Art and Media Arts program at NJCU are also first rate.

"In the end we will survive rather than perish not because we accumulate comfort and luxury but because we accumulate wisdom"  Colonel Jack Jacobs US Army (Ret).

Offline Hoopityhoop25

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1265 on: January 11, 2019, 08:35:33 am »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point. You can argue that kids should be able to transfer freely after the season, which is fine. But to argue players should be allowed to play for one team in the Fall semester and then a different one in the Spring is ridiculous.

Also Montclair, NJCU and TCNJ have separated themselves as the top teams in the NJAC. All 3 teams have traded wins (TCNJ beats Montclair, NJCU beats TCNJ and Montclair beat NJCU). Each team has dropped a game in conference to a lesser opponent (Willy P, Stockton & Rowan). Think Montclair St. is in the driver seat with the "best" bad loss to Rowan.

Offline Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1266 on: January 12, 2019, 09:17:02 am »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.
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Offline Hoopityhoop25

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1267 on: January 12, 2019, 11:42:39 am »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.

You're right. We are definitely all better served by people sharing anecdotal stories about their and their friend's education backgrounds and incomes. How about we change the board to just NJAC Academics and then we can talk about all the great programs across all these NJAC schools? No one is saying it isn't important but the argument changed from debating how fair it is for kids to transfer to people talking about their rich buddies and touting their respective schools academic programs. 

Offline TheOsprey

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1268 on: January 12, 2019, 02:09:17 pm »
Stockton up 15 @ the half over MSU.
Kean 62 TCNJ 31 early in 2nd half.
Just another Saturday afternoon in the NJAC. ???  Go figure!

Offline TheOsprey

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1269 on: January 12, 2019, 02:54:26 pm »
Stockton hits a 3ball @ the buzzer to upset MSU and Kean beats TCNJ by 20.🏀

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1270 on: January 15, 2019, 04:31:58 pm »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.

You're right. We are definitely all better served by people sharing anecdotal stories about their and their friend's education backgrounds and incomes. How about we change the board to just NJAC Academics and then we can talk about all the great programs across all these NJAC schools? No one is saying it isn't important but the argument changed from debating how fair it is for kids to transfer to people talking about their rich buddies and touting their respective schools academic programs.

I think you missed the point that Ryan was trying to make that in Division III is about academics and their programs. And yeah ... in DIII, touting a school's academic program is kind of part of the conversation. It certainly is when recruits are on at least on campus.

Sorry if those who are proud of their accomplishments or their school's status is a bother.

As for the programs on the floor ... I'm always impressed with how many of these students athletes, including in the NJAC, are tremendous students first and foremost. I don't think any DIII school should be ashamed of themselves in the grand scheme of things.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Offline Hoopityhoop25

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1271 on: January 16, 2019, 02:32:32 pm »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.

You're right. We are definitely all better served by people sharing anecdotal stories about their and their friend's education backgrounds and incomes. How about we change the board to just NJAC Academics and then we can talk about all the great programs across all these NJAC schools? No one is saying it isn't important but the argument changed from debating how fair it is for kids to transfer to people talking about their rich buddies and touting their respective schools academic programs.

I think you missed the point that Ryan was trying to make that in Division III is about academics and their programs. And yeah ... in DIII, touting a school's academic program is kind of part of the conversation. It certainly is when recruits are on at least on campus.

Sorry if those who are proud of their accomplishments or their school's status is a bother.

As for the programs on the floor ... I'm always impressed with how many of these students athletes, including in the NJAC, are tremendous students first and foremost. I don't think any DIII school should be ashamed of themselves in the grand scheme of things.

The only people missing the point is you two. You both keep returning the how important academic programs are and I am not saying anything different. What I am saying is that transferring mid-season, regardless of whether or not its to enroll in a different program at a different school, should make a player ineligible for the rest of that year. If it is strictly about academics then this still allows the student-athlete to enter their desired program but prevents players from playing for two different teams during the same season. You both seem to be quoting reply's without actually reading them.

But I was shocked by the game TCNJ had at Kean. Just all around bad game that puts them in a tough spot especially with NJCU and MSU prevailing (MSU barely). Puts them right back in the thick of things and makes showing up for every game from here on out even more important then usual.

Offline Hoopityhoop25

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1272 on: January 17, 2019, 07:54:33 am »
Interesting game this weekend with NJCU traveling to Rowan. Rowan's been hot (but beating up on the bottom of the NJAC) but Glassboro is always a tough place to play. If Rowan can pull off a W and the rest of the top teams handle their business (no easy task in NJAC league play) it will bring everybody to 8-3. Think it will be a good test for NJCU.

Offline Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1273 on: January 17, 2019, 05:35:31 pm »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.

You're right. We are definitely all better served by people sharing anecdotal stories about their and their friend's education backgrounds and incomes. How about we change the board to just NJAC Academics and then we can talk about all the great programs across all these NJAC schools? No one is saying it isn't important but the argument changed from debating how fair it is for kids to transfer to people talking about their rich buddies and touting their respective schools academic programs.

I think you missed the point that Ryan was trying to make that in Division III is about academics and their programs. And yeah ... in DIII, touting a school's academic program is kind of part of the conversation. It certainly is when recruits are on at least on campus.

Sorry if those who are proud of their accomplishments or their school's status is a bother.

As for the programs on the floor ... I'm always impressed with how many of these students athletes, including in the NJAC, are tremendous students first and foremost. I don't think any DIII school should be ashamed of themselves in the grand scheme of things.

The only people missing the point is you two. You both keep returning the how important academic programs are and I am not saying anything different. What I am saying is that transferring mid-season, regardless of whether or not its to enroll in a different program at a different school, should make a player ineligible for the rest of that year. If it is strictly about academics then this still allows the student-athlete to enter their desired program but prevents players from playing for two different teams during the same season. You both seem to be quoting reply's without actually reading them.

And what we have been telling you and you apparently haven't been reading is ... that isn't going to happen. There isn't any major concern about it across the division or in the NJAC. They don't see it as a problem and those in both the conference and the division don't want to limit students and their opportunities by putting a number of hurdles in their way. In DI (and DII, I believe) it makes sense because there are athletic scholarships in play. All at play in DIII is the bill a student has to pay to an institution. Thus ... only one or two conferences in totality have that limitation (transfer type limitations in general) in Division III. The NJAC doesn't feel it's a problem and is no where close to implementing it ... despite your opinions on it.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Offline Hoopityhoop25

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Re: NJAC TALK
« Reply #1274 on: January 19, 2019, 07:54:42 am »
All this stuff about these schools academics and their programs is a mute point.

... I'm just going to leave this here.

You're right. We are definitely all better served by people sharing anecdotal stories about their and their friend's education backgrounds and incomes. How about we change the board to just NJAC Academics and then we can talk about all the great programs across all these NJAC schools? No one is saying it isn't important but the argument changed from debating how fair it is for kids to transfer to people talking about their rich buddies and touting their respective schools academic programs.

I think you missed the point that Ryan was trying to make that in Division III is about academics and their programs. And yeah ... in DIII, touting a school's academic program is kind of part of the conversation. It certainly is when recruits are on at least on campus.

Sorry if those who are proud of their accomplishments or their school's status is a bother.

As for the programs on the floor ... I'm always impressed with how many of these students athletes, including in the NJAC, are tremendous students first and foremost. I don't think any DIII school should be ashamed of themselves in the grand scheme of things.

The only people missing the point is you two. You both keep returning the how important academic programs are and I am not saying anything different. What I am saying is that transferring mid-season, regardless of whether or not its to enroll in a different program at a different school, should make a player ineligible for the rest of that year. If it is strictly about academics then this still allows the student-athlete to enter their desired program but prevents players from playing for two different teams during the same season. You both seem to be quoting reply's without actually reading them.

And what we have been telling you and you apparently haven't been reading is ... that isn't going to happen. There isn't any major concern about it across the division or in the NJAC. They don't see it as a problem and those in both the conference and the division don't want to limit students and their opportunities by putting a number of hurdles in their way. In DI (and DII, I believe) it makes sense because there are athletic scholarships in play. All at play in DIII is the bill a student has to pay to an institution. Thus ... only one or two conferences in totality have that limitation (transfer type limitations in general) in Division III. The NJAC doesn't feel it's a problem and is no where close to implementing it ... despite your opinions on it.

Read through all those quote tweets that you just quoted there and show me when you guys were referring to transferring at any point, because both of your last replys were simply about my reference to programs being a "mute" point. But I agree its not a rampant issue and is hard to regulate, especially at the D3 level, but I just feel its unfair. And I don't think just because it isn't close to being implemented or currently feasible restricts it from being discussed.