Author Topic: NCAA sites and officiating  (Read 33102 times)

Offline NO RESPECT

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +3/-3
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 06:52:09 pm »
I am a Head College Womens' D-3 coach and I would love to see the tournament played on a neutral site in the participating teams area. This way it is fair to all. Home court advantage does help some, but it should not decide the outcome, as the best team that day will win.

As for the officials, they are horrible, and the african american males are really bad, as they try to show that they are not playing favoritism towards me (An African American), but in doing this, they show great disrespect and their patience level is very short. I have asked that several of them not be allowed to ref any of my games next season. If officials were being held more accountable, they would do a much better job. In turn, there are some out there that are very good, and they do their best to work with the coaches and players so that the game is decided on the court.

Lastly, D-4 is only gonna screw up the NCAA, look at the rules now, as they already have all the D-3 school by the B*lls...our rules are so much more strict, and they tend to become more and more strict every year.
Defense is a full time job, and not a part time practice.

Offline The Champ

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
  • Karma: +31/-68
  • Faster!!!
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 08:32:41 am »
The defending national champion isn't always the higher seed, either.  2007 doesn't count in 2008.

Good point, but they were ranked higher in the poll before the tournament with two of their losses coming to top 5 ranked teams.  I know the poll doesn't mean anything, but I just thought they were forced on the road because of the proximity of their school compared to others in their region, not their play on the court.

I agree that polls don't necessarily mean anything, but FWIW:

DePauw was ranked #5 in the final DIII poll, with UWW #4.  If you go by the previous poll, Depauw was #6 and UWW was #8.

These two teams were nearly equal, no matter how you look at it.

That being the case, it's hard to make a case that the playing in WW was any more "unfair" for DePauw than playing at DePauw would have been for WW (based strictly on poll rankings). 

I guess I like the idea of possibly being able to host some of the tournament games. 

The final four site being predetermined makes sense to me, as that is the ultimate championship game and gives all teams a goal that they can set at the start of the season.

Offline hoops49

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +2/-22
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2008, 05:22:17 pm »
Division I women just shifted from a hosting philosophy to neutral sites. So, I have a couple of questions. What makes Division III ready for that change? Also, doesn't hosting create the regional atmosphere/emphasis that the NCAA wants DIII to be about?



Division III brings in more fans than Division 1 games unless you are attending a successful bigger D1 game so I would think a change shouldn't be a problem.

Creating an atmosphere should not compete with fairness to the teams in my opinion. This is about the players/teams after all and what is fair to them.

Offline hoops49

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +2/-22
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2008, 05:41:18 pm »
I can't even begin to describe how much I disagree with neutral sites.  Hosting NCAA games is what makes the tournament special.

In fact I wish the NCAA would go back to having individual game hosts in Round 1.  Its an amazing experience for the hosting school, it helps build a lot of excitement and enthusiasm around host campuses, unfortunately half as many schools get to host now that they've used the "pod" system.

If your a competitor, you really don't care where the game is played, and I'd hope they wouldn't be looking for the old built in excuse............"well, if it weren't at their place. etc. etc.".........Most players will tell you they love playing in front of a big crowd whether home or away.  A neutral site would completely take away from a big part of the game experience.

This isn't even bringing up how poor attendance would be, and how fiscally irresponsible it is to move games from off campuses.



I disagree. And I know players would disagree with that as well. I think you should actually talk to some players and get their input. It's so easy for the posters on this board to give their opinion, but unless you know for sure how players would feel don't make assumptions. A neutral site would not take away from an important game, because fans WOULD follow.

Fiscally irresponsible????  Once again, who is this about??  The campus making money or the players??? I am blown away from that comment. These girls work their butt off and for nothing except for the sheer love of the game and do you think they care about how much money the campus makes??  They deserve FAIRNESS and that can only be accomplished on a neutral site.

Offline hoops49

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +2/-22
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2008, 05:47:18 pm »
Division I women just shifted from a hosting philosophy to neutral sites. So, I have a couple of questions. What makes Division III ready for that change? Also, doesn't hosting create the regional atmosphere/emphasis that the NCAA wants DIII to be about?

Actually, the D1 women's tournament is worse.  From looking at the bracket, there are some neutral sites, but there are some cases where a low seed (high #) is actually the host. 

Iowa State hosted as a #7 seed
New Mexico hosted as a #12 seed

How would you like to earn a high seed and then have to go play a lower team on their home court.  At least in D3 the higher seed almost always hosts.


It shouldn't be a problem to play anywhere if you're good enough to be a high seed team.

Offline hoops49

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +2/-22
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2008, 05:56:58 pm »
The defending national champion isn't always the higher seed, either.  2007 doesn't count in 2008.

Good point, but they were ranked higher in the poll before the tournament with two of their losses coming to top 5 ranked teams.  I know the poll doesn't mean anything, but I just thought they were forced on the road because of the proximity of their school compared to others in their region, not their play on the court.

I agree that polls don't necessarily mean anything, but FWIW:

DePauw was ranked #5 in the final DIII poll, with UWW #4.  If you go by the previous poll, Depauw was #6 and UWW was #8.

These two teams were nearly equal, no matter how you look at it.

That being the case, it's hard to make a case that the playing in WW was any more "unfair" for DePauw than playing at DePauw would have been for WW (based strictly on poll rankings). 

I guess I like the idea of possibly being able to host some of the tournament games. 

The final four site being predetermined makes sense to me, as that is the ultimate championship game and gives all teams a goal that they can set at the start of the season.


I totally agree with you. I'm not opposed to playing at a predetermined site for the Final 4. I just think early in the tourney neutral sites should be considered.

Offline hoops49

  • Second-stringer
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +2/-22
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2008, 06:11:54 pm »
I hope I'm not coming off the wrong way on this topic. I'm just very passionate about this and for me I'm all about the players. That's all. I brought this topic up to bring awareness and I guess I did that. I really hate to see money get in the way of what is fair to the coach, players and fans. But I guess that will never change. It's all about the athletes. I'm disappointed more of you don't see that. But I did my part on here and maybe there will be changes in the future. Maybe not.

Until next year.......



Offline Pat Coleman

  • D3sports.com Guru
  • Administrator
  • All-American
  • *****
  • Posts: 39252
  • Karma: +5181/-2355
  • Check the front page or FAQs before you ask.
    • View Profile
    • D3sports.com
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2008, 08:08:07 pm »
Fiscally irresponsible????  Once again, who is this about??  The campus making money or the players???

Ask the NCAA -- they're the ones footing the bill, not the campus.

I've seen a lot of NCAA Tournament games where the host gets knocked out on the first night and two teams play on the second night in front of a hundred or two fans, so I'm not sure where you can say as an absolute that the fans will follow.

Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

WLCALUM83

  • Guest
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2008, 09:19:25 pm »
Fiscally irresponsible????  Once again, who is this about??  The campus making money or the players???

Ask the NCAA -- they're the ones footing the bill, not the campus.

I've seen a lot of NCAA Tournament games where the host gets knocked out on the first night and two teams play on the second night in front of a hundred or two fans, so I'm not sure where you can say as an absolute that the fans will follow.



Wasn't the attendance for the Women's D3 Final still good in Holland, MI despite Hope not getting to the Final Four? (Especially the second day?) I thought the women drew more of an attendance than the men--if I heard correctly.

Offline Pat Coleman

  • D3sports.com Guru
  • Administrator
  • All-American
  • *****
  • Posts: 39252
  • Karma: +5181/-2355
  • Check the front page or FAQs before you ask.
    • View Profile
    • D3sports.com
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2008, 09:23:36 pm »
The Final Four, as you might imagine, is a different situation and always is. That's not what 49 is asking for a neutral floor for and it's not what I'm referencing either.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Offline Just Bill

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3960
  • Karma: +692/-204
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 03:43:10 pm »
Division III brings in more fans than Division 1 games unless you are attending a successful bigger D1 game so I would think a change shouldn't be a problem.

You need to check the numbers before you say something that ridiculous.  Howard Payne led D-III in attendance last year at 1,490.  98 Division I teams had a higher average attendance than Howard Payne.

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/2008WBBattend1.html
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Offline Pat Coleman

  • D3sports.com Guru
  • Administrator
  • All-American
  • *****
  • Posts: 39252
  • Karma: +5181/-2355
  • Check the front page or FAQs before you ask.
    • View Profile
    • D3sports.com
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 04:28:00 pm »
Having 98 teams higher than Howard Payne, out of more than 300, is not that impressive. However, the average Division III women's basketball attendance is of course far less than 1,490.
Publisher. Questions? Check our FAQ for D3f, D3h.
Let's discuss (sports) in a positive way, sometimes kidding each other with no disrespect.

Offline Just Bill

  • All-American
  • ******
  • Posts: 3960
  • Karma: +692/-204
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2008, 04:40:43 pm »
Regardless, there's no possible way to justify the claim D-III games bring in more fans than D-I games, any way you slice it.
"That seems silly and pointless..." - Hoops Fan

The first and still most accurate description of the D3 Championship BeltTM thread.

Offline The Champ

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
  • Karma: +31/-68
  • Faster!!!
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2008, 08:11:59 am »
Wasn't the attendance for the Women's D3 Final still good in Holland, MI despite Hope not getting to the Final Four? (Especially the second day?) I thought the women drew more of an attendance than the men--if I heard correctly.

At Holland, all four teams play on the second day.  That's not the case in the games leading up to the final four.

Folks that have made the trip to the final four to watch their squad have already invested in the trip and most will stay the extra day to support their squad in the consolation game.

Offline dballa

  • All-Region
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
  • Karma: +108/-58
    • View Profile
Re: NCAA sites and officiating
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2008, 10:16:52 am »
Having 98 teams higher than Howard Payne, out of more than 300, is not that impressive. However, the average Division III women's basketball attendance is of course far less than 1,490.

I would think that would be very impressive.  Averaging more attendance than any D3 school then right along with that beating over 200 DI schools.  That says a lot for the support of the community especially considering the student body has around 1,300 or so students.