Author Topic: BB: Midwest All-Region  (Read 44223 times)

Offline supermiac

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Re: All Region
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2008, 12:23:20 pm »
I kept Ruebens on the list. I know he's a good pitcher; I just wouldn't say that he's a true starting pitcher and you can't give him that spot on a squad if he only starts 3 games a year. I've seen him pitch and know he's a solid pitcher, I just questioned the merits of putting a good reliever on a list meant for starting pitchers, which is what someone had done before. 8 wins can be very misleading too when you are a reliever.

However, I'm still not convinced Burg is an automatic all-region pick. His numbers may or may not call for it; his big wins definitely would call for it. BUT, he did pitch against St. Thomas in the beginning off the season (St. Thomas didn't start hitting until mid-season after their spring trip); and in his wins against Alvernia and Oshkosh, he certainly did not pitch gems, while his offense scored more 10+ runs both times. Like in regional seeding, a win like that is a win, but you kind of have to look behind it just like you look at stats when comparing players. I could easily say that I would want any pitcher on my list pitching against Alvernia or Oshkosh if they were expected to give up 4 ER's through the game, regardless of what my offense produces. Again, good pitcher...but I question whether he should be on the squad.

I think Dan Leslie should be on the list too. He is a super aggressive hitter and that's what I like about him. If you look at his stats too, he only struck out 3 times too. Plus hitting .420+ ain't nothin to be ashamed of either. I wish he hadn't injured his arm, because he's a very good pitcher too; would have definitely been worthy of atleast a UTIL spot on an all-region squad.

Offline cubs

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Re: All Region
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2008, 12:40:37 pm »
My only question would be does the All Region differentiate between starting and relief pitchers?  If it is just pitchers, I would argue that Rubens is one of the top pitchers in the Midwest Region, regardless of whether a starter or reliever, and has EARNED a spot on anyone's list.
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Offline Bronko7

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Re: All Region
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2008, 01:09:46 pm »
Ruebens & Burg are in enough said..should Lonnie robinson be left off because he didnt play for the first part? Since when does being a reliever or pitching opening day have anything to do with it. We might as well account for weather and say "well it was on 5 days rest, it was raining, he had a hang nail, they were using worth baseballs and he was not feeling fresh and they lost" so dont count it against him. Get over it.

Offline supermiac

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Re: All Region
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2008, 03:36:01 pm »
Ruebens & Burg are in enough said..should Lonnie robinson be left off because he didnt play for the first part? Since when does being a reliever or pitching opening day have anything to do with it. We might as well account for weather and say "well it was on 5 days rest, it was raining, he had a hang nail, they were using worth baseballs and he was not feeling fresh and they lost" so dont count it against him. Get over it.
I have Ruebens on my team. I didn't know what the criteria was for pitchers. I'm sure there are other pitchers who could have pitched as a long reliever for the year and done just as well as he did (as his statistics really are not all-region caliber; AND I don't consider wins a relevant statistic for a reliever anyways) I judged every player on that team I listed from both their statistics and their overall talent. If the category for pitchers was simply "pitcher," then he would be on the team; if it was "starting pitcher," he wouldn't because he started 3 games. I don't see how that causes any calamity.

And I still don't agree that Peter Burg is a shoe-in. The ends really do not justify the means in baseball in my opinion; especially when I'm trying to understand "talent." I think his win against St. Thomas was pretty solid; granted it was the first game of the year. However, the other two games mentioned weren't even close games. As I'll reiterate AGAIN, I think any of the pitchers I mentioned on MY all-region team could give up 4 or less ERs against Alvernia and Oshkosh after seeing all of them pitch. Granted, Peter Burg DID do it; so he deserves some credit, but all-region? I honestly can't say for sure.

And Lonnie Robinson lost any chance of all-region honors by giving up 9 ERs in 4 innings at St. Olaf; not because he was playing basketball in the beginning of the year.

Offline cubs

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Re: All Region
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2008, 04:06:30 pm »
I have Ruebens on my team. I didn't know what the criteria was for pitchers. I'm sure there are other pitchers who could have pitched as a long reliever for the year and done just as well as he did (as his statistics really are not all-region caliber; AND I don't consider wins a relevant statistic for a reliever anyways)
His three starts and all COMPLETE GAME wins are against St. Thomas, Whitewater, and Stevens Point, not exactly chopped liver.

What statistics that Rubens has put up aren't All Region?  His 2.21 ERA?  His 3-to-1 K/BB ratio?
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Offline BaseballFan

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Re: All Region
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2008, 04:10:29 pm »
Ruebens & Burg are in enough said..should Lonnie robinson be left off because he didnt play for the first part? Since when does being a reliever or pitching opening day have anything to do with it. We might as well account for weather and say "well it was on 5 days rest, it was raining, he had a hang nail, they were using worth baseballs and he was not feeling fresh and they lost" so dont count it against him. Get over it.
I have Ruebens on my team. I didn't know what the criteria was for pitchers. I'm sure there are other pitchers who could have pitched as a long reliever for the year and done just as well as he did (as his statistics really are not all-region caliber; AND I don't consider wins a relevant statistic for a reliever anyways) I judged every player on that team I listed from both their statistics and their overall talent. If the category for pitchers was simply "pitcher," then he would be on the team; if it was "starting pitcher," he wouldn't because he started 3 games. I don't see how that causes any calamity.

And I still don't agree that Peter Burg is a shoe-in. The ends really do not justify the means in baseball in my opinion; especially when I'm trying to understand "talent." I think his win against St. Thomas was pretty solid; granted it was the first game of the year. However, the other two games mentioned weren't even close games. As I'll reiterate AGAIN, I think any of the pitchers I mentioned on MY all-region team could give up 4 or less ERs against Alvernia and Oshkosh after seeing all of them pitch. Granted, Peter Burg DID do it; so he deserves some credit, but all-region? I honestly can't say for sure.

And Lonnie Robinson lost any chance of all-region honors by giving up 9 ERs in 4 innings at St. Olaf; not because he was playing basketball in the beginning of the year.


Well I think you are the lone wolf on this one. A 3.00 era against 3 top teams is pretty good so Ill take that anyday from Burg. You could pick apart every pitcher in some aspect. And when Burg gave up 4 earned against Oshkosh, he was feeding them 75 mph fastballs to get the game over before the domes time limit and gave up 3 in the last inning.
For example Aaron Dott gave up 7 runs in 2.2 inning against Stout but I would consider him one of the best in the region

And you said any of those pitchers on your list could give up less than 4 earned runs against Oshkosh well Dominick gave up 5 earned runs in 4 innings against Oshkosh

Offline supermiac

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Re: All Region
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2008, 04:27:22 pm »

[/quote]

Well I think you are the lone wolf on this one. A 3.00 era against 3 top teams is pretty good so Ill take that anyday from Burg. You could pick apart every pitcher in some aspect. And when Burg gave up 4 earned against Oshkosh, he was feeding them 75 mph fastballs to get the game over before the domes time limit and gave up 3 in the last inning.
For example Aaron Dott gave up 7 runs in 2.2 inning against Stout but I would consider him one of the best in the region

And you said any of those pitchers on your list could give up less than 4 earned runs against Oshkosh well Dominick gave up 5 earned runs in 4 innings against Oshkosh
[/quote]
That doesn't really make much sense to begin; he wouldn't be tossing in grapefruits if they wanted to get the game in. I'm not sure why this argument got so animated to begin with; I gave my point-of-view and suddenly that elicited a frenzy here. I simply said that Burg isn't a shoe-in and Rubens makes all-region depending on whether they count pitchers as pitchers, or solely starters. It's even more impressive that Dominick has the numbers he does after giving up 5 ERs in 4 innings; but that doesn't change what I said in the beginning: that the pitchers I listed could definitely perform at the same level against top competition as Burg. Just because there's some anecdotal incident regarding a different pitcher doesn't change that.

Offline BaseballFan

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Re: All Region
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2008, 04:40:58 pm »


Well I think you are the lone wolf on this one. A 3.00 era against 3 top teams is pretty good so Ill take that anyday from Burg. You could pick apart every pitcher in some aspect. And when Burg gave up 4 earned against Oshkosh, he was feeding them 75 mph fastballs to get the game over before the domes time limit and gave up 3 in the last inning.
For example Aaron Dott gave up 7 runs in 2.2 inning against Stout but I would consider him one of the best in the region

And you said any of those pitchers on your list could give up less than 4 earned runs against Oshkosh well Dominick gave up 5 earned runs in 4 innings against Oshkosh
[/quote]
That doesn't really make much sense to begin; he wouldn't be tossing in grapefruits if they wanted to get the game in. I'm not sure why this argument got so animated to begin with; I gave my point-of-view and suddenly that elicited a frenzy here. I simply said that Burg isn't a shoe-in and Rubens makes all-region depending on whether they count pitchers as pitchers, or solely starters. It's even more impressive that Dominick has the numbers he does after giving up 5 ERs in 4 innings; but that doesn't change what I said in the beginning: that the pitchers I listed could definitely perform at the same level against top competition as Burg. Just because there's some anecdotal incident regarding a different pitcher doesn't change that.
[/quote]

The situation that arose was CSS was up by a lot against Oshkosh but they were approaching the time limit so wanted to get the game. CSS was getting out intentionally and when Burg was pitching he would catch and pitch before the time limit was up. So actually does make a lot of sense and this has been well talked about in the past. I just thought it was funny that you said that your SP would do better when it was proven where they didnt. I tend to rely on facts and not just opinion thats all im saying...but you are right this whole thing has been talked about enough

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Re: All Region
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2008, 04:46:09 pm »
That doesn't really make much sense to begin; he wouldn't be tossing in grapefruits if they wanted to get the game in.
He did, though. That was precisely the case. CSS pounded Oshkosh early and Burg basically threw BP and one warmup pitch between innings (according to the CSS broadcast) to get the game over. CSS and Burg beat the clock and UWO by one minute in doing so.

I think your points are valid on some levels, but you picked the wrong year and/or the wrong pitchers to make your points IMO. But to say that pitchers A and B would hypothetically match Burg's performances against top teams is rather silly, no? Convenient, for sure. But also silly, baseless and pointless.

There is an All-American spot for a reliever this season. I would assume that means there will be a reliever spot on the all-region teams as well. Maybe not. All-American for sure, though.

Offline bigbadbaseballman

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Re: All Region
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2008, 05:19:21 pm »
                              ERA   W-L   APP  GS  CG SHO/CBO SV IPH R ER BB SO 2B 3B  HR  AB B/Avg   

 
34 Burg, Peter......  0.69   2-0     3   3   1   0/0    0  13.0   4   1   1   0  12   0   0   1   41  .098   
 
These are his conference stats.  Only 13 innings and 3 starts so its not like he is padding his stats with the UMAC competition.   With CSS's ace, kummet, struggling against top competition peter burgs wins against those top 25 teams is a huge boost for them. This crafty lefty would be on my all region team for sure.
I think supermiac is by himself leaving both ruebens and burg off the all region team.

Offline BaseballFan

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Re: All Region
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2008, 05:17:02 pm »
So its been about 2 weeks since last all region team, things have changed a little but a lot the same. Based it on Avg and slug%. Pitching W/L, ERA,  K/BB

C- Doug Coe USP: .432 10 HRS .793slug%
1B- Sean Claugherty CSS: .450 8 HRS  .860slug%
2B- Dan Kaczrowski Hamline: .466  5HRS  .740slug%
3B- Nick Beaman Ripon: .412 7 HRS .775slug%
SS-Adam Frost St Norbert  .431 avg  7HRS   .732 slug%
4 OF (softball rules)-
Chris Bullis UST: .489 avg  .717slug%
Andrew Bennett Hamline: .402 8 HRS  .761slug%
Steve Kraushaar CSS  .398avg 7HRS  .785slug%
Jared  Yost St Norbert.414avg 8HRS .758slug%

5 SP-
Peter Burg CSS: 8-0 2.77era 44/10 K/BB
Jeremy Rubens UWO: 8-1 7SVs  2.13era
Adam Dominick UWW: 8-1 1.61era 68/13 K/BB
Josh Roiger Hamline: 6-2 1.40era 65/8 K/BB
Aaron Dott UWW:  5-0  2.72 era  58/28 K/BB

Just to pick 3 Honorable mentions
Matt Pexa UST   .445avg   .700slug%
Darrin Carlson CSS  .426avg  4HRS  .733slug%
Billy Johnson UWW  .476 avg 4HRS

Regional Player of the year as of now Sean Claugherty CSS--couple guys that could be here though
Regional Pitcher of the year as of now Adam Dominick--barely beats out Roiger and Rubens

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Re: All Region
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2008, 06:50:09 pm »
I like Kaczrowski over Frost at SS and to place guys where they play. I think you gotta make a choice at SS and find a 2B, just like you made the choice of Coe over Johnson at C. In that case, my 2B would be Illinois College's Clint Wherley (may be able to put Bennett at 2B ... or 3B for that matter).

If you create a DH spot for Coe and put Johnson on there, put Bennett at 2B and add an OF, I'd take that team against any other region's team any day, any time, anywhere.

I also like Whitewater's Kevin Zalnis at 3B, Oshkosh's Brad Demmin at 1B, and La Crosse's Storm Gram and/or Whitewater's Ben Prather over the last two OF,  but those are all close and very debatable.

Offline BaseballFan

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Re: All Region
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2008, 02:56:51 am »
I like Kaczrowski over Frost at SS and to place guys where they play. I think you gotta make a choice at SS and find a 2B, just like you made the choice of Coe over Johnson at C. In that case, my 2B would be Illinois College's Clint Wherley (may be able to put Bennett at 2B ... or 3B for that matter).

If you create a DH spot for Coe and put Johnson on there, put Bennett at 2B and add an OF, I'd take that team against any other region's team any day, any time, anywhere.

I also like Whitewater's Kevin Zalnis at 3B, Oshkosh's Brad Demmin at 1B, and La Crosse's Storm Gram and/or Whitewater's Ben Prather over the last two OF,  but those are all close and very debatable.

See thats where I ran into the problem because I went by positions according to their team roster. I know Coe has not really played catcher but thats his position usually and Kazrowski is listed as a 2b but has been playing short so I did not know if he was splitting time or every game at SS.

Storm Gram was on my prior list but slug is .605 doesnt cut it in my book and neither does Ben Prathers .515. Kevin Zalnis has a pretty good slug but avg is somewhat weak. Demmin should of at least been mentioned as an honerable mention and think he is a very good player all around but as of now his stats dont compare to Claughertys

Basically I think a high slug % is better than a high average and believe most coaches will tell you the same thing. In fact I believe most coaches look at slug% and SLOB (slug + OB) as the most important stats. I did not do it, but would think the guys I listed would have the highest SLOBs.

My method is not exact or anything but gives everyone a list of the numbers guys are putting up.

Offline BaseballFan

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Re: All Region
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2008, 08:57:14 pm »
Last all region team

C- Doug Coe USP: .426 13 HRS .806slug%
1B- Sean Claugherty CSS: .462 9 HRS  .874slug%
2B- Andrew Bennett Hamline: .403 8 HRS  .741slug%
3B- Nick Beaman Ripon: .385 7 HRS .709slug%
SS- Dan Kaczrowski Hamline: .477  5HRS  .735slug%
3 OF
Chris Bullis UST: .509 avg  .754slug%
Jared  Yost St Norbert .395avg 9HRS .728slug%
Steve Kraushaar CSS  .383avg 9HRS  .791slug%
 

5 SP-
Peter Burg CSS: 10-0 2.35era 59/13 K/BB
Jeremy Rubens UWO: 10-2 7SVs  2.27era 37/10 K/BB
Adam Dominick UWW: 9-2 3.36era 82/16 K/BB
Josh Roiger Hamline: 7-3 1.86era 81/11 K/BB
Aaron Dott UWW:  6-1  3.49 era  75/38 K/BB

Just to pick some Honorable mentions
Matt Pexa UST   .453avg   .664slug%               
Darrin Carlson CSS  .424avg  5HRS  .746slug%
Billy Johnson UWW  .429 avg 7HRS  .669slug% 
Kevin Zalnis UWW .370avg 14HRs .733 slug% 
Kyle Johnson Concordia C .450avg 5HRs .725 slug%   
Jason Infusino Carroll C .431avg 5HRS .740slug%
Adam Frost St Norbert  .407 avg  7HRS .679slug%
Brad Demmin UWO .404 8HRs .722slug%

Player-Sean Claugherty
Pitcher-Jeremy Rubens/Josh Roiger
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 09:28:35 pm by BaseballFan »

Offline cubs

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Re: All Region
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2008, 09:18:01 pm »
Your list is pretty nice, but I would add UWO 1B Brad Demmin....  When you look at his numbers, (.404 8 HR's, .722 slug%) they are comparable to some of your HM players, and I would argue he faces tougher pitching than the guys from St. Norbert and Carroll.
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